Anyone know anything about wiring an amp?

**noxside** · 08-05-2008, 05:54 PM

Hi all,
I just recently bought a 10" type r 4 ohm for a little more bass. And I'm using an old amp (8152D) that i know works good.

The problem im having is that it worked for maybe a day and now the amp doesnt get any power at all, but i can hook it up to a buddy's car and it works great on his stuff, i even have an identical amp that doesnt work either, but does on his.

The sub is a brand new alpine 10" type r - 4 ohm 8152D, and the amp is Kenwood KAC-8152D. According to the manual that came with the sub, it is wired up for a 2 ohm load, but i dont think it's right since it wont power up when hooked up to the sub.

Anyone good with this stuff? I already checked the power cable with a reader and it's getting power, and grounded it to the same ground im using and it works fine. The remote is also sending power out as well.

Btw the head unit is the kenwood ddx512, and i have the rca's hooked up to the sub output.

Im starting to go crazy

**bigrondownhiller** · 08-06-2008, 12:25 PM

Does the amp have any lights to indicate power or fault? If it is an older amp it might not be able to push a 2 ohm load. If you hooked the sub up as a 2 ohm you might have fried the amp. How many sets of inputs does the sub have? What does it say on the back of it, 2 or 4 ohm? what size wire did you use and where did you run it?

**deftunes** · 08-06-2008, 03:39 PM

check all your speaker cables as well, make sure your speakers are working.

**noxside** · 08-06-2008, 06:16 PM

The amp has a light that indicates power, but it only came on for a little while and doesnt at all now.

According to the manual for the amp, it can do either 2 or 4 ohm load, depending on the wiring. And the sub is the same way. And I belive i wired it up correctly according to their maps. I'm only using 2 of the 4 (+) and (-) ports on the amp. On the sub itself, i am using the jumpers that came with it as well according to the manual.

I'm using 4 gauge, and the power wire is ran along the passenger side, the remote up the middle, and the ground right next to the trunk release mech.

The only thing I can figure is messing up is the power cable that plugs into the battery. Its just the wire and the metal adaptor that hooks to the positive side terminal.... could this be my problem?

**deftunes** · 08-07-2008, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by noxside

The amp has a light that indicates power, but it only came on for a little while and doesnt at all now.

According to the manual for the amp, it can do either 2 or 4 ohm load, depending on the wiring. And the sub is the same way. And I belive i wired it up correctly according to their maps. I'm only using 2 of the 4 (+) and (-) ports on the amp. On the sub itself, i am using the jumpers that came with it as well according to the manual.

I'm using 4 gauge, and the power wire is ran along the passenger side, the remote up the middle, and the ground right next to the trunk release mech.

The only thing I can figure is messing up is the power cable that plugs into the battery. Its just the wire and the metal adaptor that hooks to the positive side terminal.... could this be my problem?

Could be, autozone or a stereo shop has a side post terminal for autosound systems, i have one of those on my car and so far so good, the only thing you need to be careful with is not overtightened it, they strip easy.

**bigrondownhiller** · 08-07-2008, 09:30 AM

If it doesnt at all then you first have to check wiring. Where did you run the power wire through the car? Stupid one but is the fuse good? What is the ground going to? Did you scrape away the paint where you put the ground?

**deftunes** · 08-07-2008, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by bigrondownhiller

If it doesnt at all then you first have to check wiring. Where did you run the power wire through the car? Stupid one but is the fuse good? What is the ground going to? Did you scrape away the paint where you put the ground?

good one...

also make sure that your power cable's insulation is not cut some where down the firewall or where ever you route it.

**noxside** · 08-07-2008, 02:57 PM

I checked all the fuses, and they're good. I didn't check on the painted ground though, i just used an exsisting ground.... so i think im going to go check that out.

Thanks for the tips so far!

**noxside** · 08-22-2008, 06:44 PM

Ended up being both my amps had died! Doh! Thanks for all the replies!

**deftunes** · 08-22-2008, 08:15 PM

damm, I recommend you HiFonics amps. I have two and they are great.

**LS2Tuner** · 08-23-2008, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by deftunes

damm, I recommend you HiFonics amps. I have two and they are great.

So do I but they NEED to be Old School HiFonics not the new Imported JUNK!

They haven't been made by ZED Audio since the mid 90's which was Generation X. Most Audiophiles consider the last real run being Series VIII amps.

I have a couple of them. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

**wenn_du_weinst** · 08-27-2008, 03:54 PM

if I were you I would go on ebay and find a kx600.1 or zx600.1 mono design amps will be more effiecent and kicker puts out max rms power at 2ohms so you arn't paying for power you can't use and remember the gain is not a volume control and the only wattage that matters is rms

**Get Bit** · 08-28-2008, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by wenn_du_weinst

if I were you I would go on ebay and find a kx600.1 or zx600.1 mono design amps will be more effiecent and kicker puts out max rms power at 2ohms so you arn't paying for power you can't use and remember the gain is not a volume control and the only wattage that matters is rms

As I try to make sense of that giant run on sentence, what is the efficiency rating of the two Kicker amps you referenced and how does that compare to all of the other amps available in the marketplace? If efficiency is the biggest concern, would you be better served using higher efficiency amplifiers or drivers with a higher sensitivity rating taking into consideration the efficiency of a driver is less than 5%?

If an amp is stable down to 1 ohm or lower but the drivers you are using present a combined 2 ohm load on the amp, how would you be “paying for power you can’t use” taking into consideration the need for dynamic headroom? How much time does a driver actually present a 2 ohm load to the amplifier taking into consideration power compression and the ever changing resistance at different frequency levels?

To a limited extent, the gain pot is a volume knob. If the preamp out contains sufficient signal to drive the amplifier to proper output, could you not use the gain for level matching purposes in a multi-amp system?

Can you tell us more about how “the only wattage that matters is rms” as it relates to average power, a far more relevant figure?

**wenn_du_weinst** · 08-28-2008, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Get Bit

As I try to make sense of that giant run on sentence, what is the efficiency rating of the two Kicker amps you referenced and how does that compare to all of the other amps available in the marketplace? If efficiency is the biggest concern, would you be better served using higher efficiency amplifiers or drivers with a higher sensitivity rating taking into consideration the efficiency of a driver is less than 5%?
thats not what I meant exactly I meant mono block amps in general use less power from your car to make their wattage most of the time it is around 80%

If an amp is stable down to 1 ohm or lower but the drivers you are using present a combined 2 ohm load on the amp, how would you be “paying for power you can’t use” taking into consideration the need for dynamic headroom? How much time does a driver actually present a 2 ohm load to the amplifier taking into consideration power compression and the ever changing resistance at different frequency levels?
no matter what the curcimstances a driver wil never have less impendence than what it start at if it is working properly as the heat up the impendence rises so if you have an amp rated at 1ohm and run a driver that is 2ohms you will never see the full power of that amp as a matter of fact unless you run a 50hz tone full blast all of the time your sub will never see the max power of the amplifier
To a limited extent, the gain pot is a volume knob. If the preamp out contains sufficient signal to drive the amplifier to proper output, could you not use the gain for level matching purposes in a multi-amp system? you could yes but the perpous of the gain knob is to match it to your cd players out put turning it down dosn't harm but turning it up past the voltage you should will cause the amp to be over driven and cause heat and burn up your speakers

Can you tell us more about how “the only wattage that matters is rms” as it relates to average power, a far more relevant figure?

you will never see that "max" wattage fo over 3 seconds if that as music is dynamic trust me goon to any car audio site and they will all agree with me max power dosn't mean anything as not even competitors see tat kind of wattage from their amps

**Get Bit** · 08-29-2008, 10:40 AM

Full range class D stereo amplifiers are 90%+ efficient. Those are not mono blocks.

There is a difference between impedance and DCR. In many drivers, DCR is lower than rated impedance. But that is not really the point. Why would you ever want your drivers to see “the full power of that amp” taking into consideration the dramatic increase in distortion output as you approach “full power”? And you certainly can see “max power” depending upon the enclosure used. Since a vast majority of people mistakenly choose an amp based upon the RMS rating of the driver, it is certainly possible, if not probable, that “max power” would be needed to bring a subwoofer to anything even close to full linear excursion.

Your comment regarding the gain pot makes absolutely zero sense. Are you suggesting that if the preamp out of my HU is specified to be 4v, I should set the gain pot on my amp to match the number? If that is what you are suggesting, please expand upon your comment but this time please graph for us the preamp out signal of whatever head unit you wish to use at every step point of the volume. For example, if you are using an Alpine 4v HU, I would like to see the actual tested preamp out signal from 1-35. If you are using an 8v Eclipse, then 1-80.

No one said anything about “max power”. I asked you to compare “RMS” power since that is “the only wattage that matters” with a far more relevant measurement…average power. I have reread my post several times now and I cannot find anything related to “max power”.

**wenn_du_weinst** · 08-29-2008, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Get Bit

Full range class D stereo amplifiers are 90%+ efficient. Those are not mono blocks.
ok fine class d amp most people don't know the differnce in classes sorry

There is a difference between impedance and DCR. In many drivers, DCR is lower than rated impedance. But that is not really the point. Why would you ever want your drivers to see “the full power of that amp” taking into consideration the dramatic increase in distortion output as you approach “full power”? And you certainly can see “max power” depending upon the enclosure used. Since a vast majority of people mistakenly choose an amp based upon the RMS rating of the driver, it is certainly possible, if not probable, that “max power” would be needed to bring a subwoofer to anything even close to full linear excursion.
because most of the drivers thatI have used will take way more than ratd and actually like more power when usd in a flater responding box IE a type r will take 1200 watts if you know what your doing

Your comment regarding the gain pot makes absolutely zero sense. Are you suggesting that if the preamp out of my HU is specified to be 4v, I should set the gain pot on my amp to match the number? If that is what you are suggesting, please expand upon your comment but this time please graph for us the preamp out signal of whatever head unit you wish to use at every step point of the volume. For example, if you are using an Alpine 4v HU, I would like to see the actual tested preamp out signal from 1-35. If you are using an 8v Eclipse, then 1-80.
no the correct way to set your gains is with a dmm r a o-scope to set i under the clipping point of the ampifier

No one said anything about “max power”. I asked you to compare “RMS” power since that is “the only wattage that matters” with a far more relevant measurement…average power. I have reread my post several times now and I cannot find anything related to “max power”.

last time I heard they were pretty close to the same so go ahead and flame me for that one

**Get Bit** · 08-29-2008, 11:14 AM

A Type R “will take 1200 watts if you know what your doing”? Within a limited timeframe, both thermally and mechanically, it will not fail with far more power applied than 1200 watts. I’m not sure what your point is.

The “correct way”? For someone new to audio, using a DMM might actually be a good idea since that person clearly has no idea what they are doing. Of course, since they have no idea what they are doing, it is highly unlikely they would even begin to know how to operate a DMM and there is zero chance of them having access to an O-Scope. If someone cannot set gains without a DMM and/or O-Scope, they should probably let someone else install and tune their system. In addition, would it not be better to set the gains to under the clipping point of the source?

Average power has nothing to do with max power. RMS power is a misnomer.

**wenn_du_weinst** · 08-30-2008, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Get Bit

A Type R “will take 1200 watts if you know what your doing”? Within a limited timeframe, both thermally and mechanically, it will not fail with far more power applied than 1200 watts. I’m not sure what your point is.

The “correct way”? For someone new to audio, using a DMM might actually be a good idea since that person clearly has no idea what they are doing. Of course, since they have no idea what they are doing, it is highly unlikely they would even begin to know how to operate a DMM and there is zero chance of them having access to an O-Scope. If someone cannot set gains without a DMM and/or O-Scope, they should probably let someone else install and tune their system. In addition, would it not be better to set the gains to under the clipping point of the source?
yes I meant you can adjust down not up
Average power has nothing to do with max power. RMS power is a misnomer.

meant rms and average not max power
http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/showthread.php?t=1990

http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/showthread.php?t=9381

**nvusone** · 09-15-2008, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by wenn_du_weinst

you will never see that "max" wattage fo over 3 seconds if that as music is dynamic trust me goon to any car audio site and they will all agree with me max power dosn't mean anything as not even competitors see tat kind of wattage from their amps

I compete in MECA (Mobile Electronics Competition Association)with my Jeep Cherokee...and using a pair of Power Acoustik 2400D's.... according to my clamp meter and a few mathmatical figure, I am getting 2354 watts out of one and 2348 out of the other. I would say that the "max power rating" is pretty close to what i am actually getting at 1 ohm. Efficiency is more about the amp draw than anything. Both of my amps will play wide open on a 60 amp fuse (each) for as long as the speaker will hold up, I would say that is pretty efficient.