How much do you bench?

**310stanger** · 11-19-2007, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by 86 IROC-Z

This man speaks the truth

ps. someone taught you the right way because the diet you are using is a very healthy one

**derrinx** · 11-19-2007, 08:53 PM

good to see youre still holdin shit down on this thread 310!! haha
back to the topic im 181 now and put up 275x1 last week, 245X8, squatted 365 for 3, etc. this is at the end of my 2.5 month sizeon/masstech/ superpump/ ON whey binge... ive been getting over 4k calories a day and have gained about 10 pounds of muscle in 75 days... its been really hard for me to gain weight and now im coming off and i know im gonna drop weight and size a little, but i had a great run.. my friend put it best: 50% diet, 40% workouts, 10% supplements is what it all comes down to
also, i sustained a partly torn forearm abvout a month ago doing power cleans... sucked... couldnt do bicep exercises for almost 2 weeks

**86 IROC-Z** · 11-19-2007, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by 310stanger

ps. someone taught you the right way because the diet you are using is a very healthy one

Thanks... I research a lot and generally eat clean... but I do cheat more than I should... It's kind of hard when you're on a college meal plan... but what can yeh do?

**86 IROC-Z** · 11-19-2007, 08:55 PM

And anyways... There's always time for cutting in the spring... just in time for the summer

**derrinx** · 11-19-2007, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by 86 IROC-Z

And anyways... There's always time for cutting in the spring... just in time for the summer

sup dude

def winter time is gettting fat time, if that was even possible for me

**310stanger** · 11-19-2007, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by derrinx

good to see youre still holdin shit down on this thread 310!! haha
back to the topic im 181 now and put up 275x1 last week, 245X8, squatted 365 for 3, etc. this is at the end of my 2.5 month sizeon/masstech/ superpump/ ON whey binge... ive been getting over 4k calories a day and have gained about 10 pounds of muscle in 75 days... its been really hard for me to gain weight and now im coming off and i know im gonna drop weight and size a little, but i had a great run.. my friend put it best: 50% diet, 40% workouts, 10% supplements is what it all comes down to
also, i sustained a partly torn forearm abvout a month ago doing power cleans... sucked... couldnt do bicep exercises for almost 2 weeks

holy crap I think gaspari has a testimonial lol Those are some huge gains man. Finally hit my 225 max for the first time, way ahead of schedule. I was shooting for xmas and jus was pissed one day and put it up 2 times. It was heavy as all hell though

**86 IROC-Z** · 11-19-2007, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by derrinx

sup dude

def winter time is gettting fat time, if that was even possible for me

derrinx! Where the hell have you been?

Yeah... hard to eat clean during winter vacation... especially with my mom cooking desserts all the time

**derrinx** · 11-19-2007, 09:01 PM

haha yeah def... i remember when i hit 225 in the spring it was sucha barrier to break through haha... two plates on eahc side... now the goal for me is three plates by the end of the school year

**derrinx** · 11-19-2007, 09:09 PM

haha... i feel the whole college meal plan dillemma, i was soooo sick of dhall food last year... now that i moved off campus though it even harder to find food... i cook as much as possible but getting 4k calories a day seems next o impossible... i have been planning my eating schedule the day before as lame as it sounds because i dont ever want to have an empty stomach....

and also, if your trying to build muscle DONT skip breakfast... you need at leat 1000 calories in the morning

**derrinx** · 11-19-2007, 09:10 PM

and yeah its been a while since ive posted, when im up at school i'm always drunk/busy but when im home for breaks i post whore like crazy haha

**Neo** · 11-20-2007, 06:57 AM

I shouldn't have said "natural". I just meant to say I've never taken any supplements.

It's NOT the diet. I take in about 3500-4000 calories a day. Yesterday, for instance, I had two of those packets of instant oatmeal for breakfast. Lunch, I had a huge plate of turkey, and corn. For dinner, I had Turkey again, with mashed potatoes and green beans. That's usually what I have every day. Maybe a protein/nutri-grain bar every once in a while. I snack a lot, too. Usually wheat-thins or something with some dip.

It's also definitely NOT the way I lift. I was taught by my coach how to lift and how much to lift, he was very strict about it. He watched me every day (which, when I wasn't busy, was about 4-5 times a week) because he was insane about the weight room, especially for his starters. Hell, he made us skip gym class so we go work out. The man knew his stuff, he has 4 division 1 players in college football right now, two of them are outstanding tight ends (Dan Gronkowski of Maryland, and Rob Gronkowski of arizona, both starters, and BOTH are underclassmen). By the time we're out of high school, we know what to do. He started us off, and he made sure we know how to do things.

My typical workout is 10-12 minutes treadmill, then abs for about 7-8 minutes. Then I go to freeweights if I skip the jump roping routine. I do bench first to get it out of the way, I'm not a huge fan. Usually 3 sets of about 160-180. Then I'll do leg curls, then leg press, both 3 sets at around 170. Then off to deadlifts, which I do again 3 sets at 210 or so. If my back can take it I do squats twice. Then I'll do curls, rows and lat pulldowns. At the end of the workout, I'm physically exhausted, but happy.

Of course, then I get on the scale and see that nothing's happened. Hell, usually I LOSE weight. Sure, I'll probably get yelled at for the cardio, but shit, I'm a runner, it keeps me fast and in shape and that's what I need. What I want is a happy medium. I know and accept the fact that I'm going to be skinny as hell for the rest of my life, but I'd like to be fairly strong. All I really want to do is add a few pounds and hopefully some muscle mass. Don't criticize me, I know what I'm doing, I've been doing it for years and it works for me.

I can't work out as much as I want, but when I get the time to pick it back up again I'd like to know what'd help me the most without having a huge health risk. I'm not the healthiest guy, I tore my back up leg pressing when I was a junior, and it hasn't been the same since. Scoliosis doesn't help that fact, either. Then of course essential tremor sucks donkey balls, but whatever. I'm sold on creatine, but if anyone can help me with other, healthy supplements, I'd be ecstatic.

Thanks.

**86 IROC-Z** · 11-20-2007, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Neo

My typical workout is 10-12 minutes treadmill, then abs for about 7-8 minutes. Then I go to freeweights if I skip the jump roping routine. I do bench first to get it out of the way, I'm not a huge fan. Usually 3 sets of about 160-180. Then I'll do leg curls, then leg press, both 3 sets at around 170. Then off to deadlifts, which I do again 3 sets at 210 or so. If my back can take it I do squats twice. Then I'll do curls, rows and lat pulldowns. At the end of the workout, I'm physically exhausted, but happy.

You should do complex lifts before doing isolation exercises that use the same muscles... for example, do squats and deadlifts before the leg curls, etc.

**Neo** · 11-20-2007, 07:19 AM

Point taken, I do that sometimes, and I did while under my coach, but I got away from it. But would that really add more muscle mass than the way I'm doing it right now?

**derrinx** · 11-20-2007, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Neo

I shouldn't have said "natural". I just meant to say I've never taken any supplements.

It's NOT the diet. I take in about 3500-4000 calories a day. Yesterday, for instance, I had two of those packets of instant oatmeal for breakfast. Lunch, I had a huge plate of turkey, and corn. For dinner, I had Turkey again, with mashed potatoes and green beans. That's usually what I have every day. Maybe a protein/nutri-grain bar every once in a while. I snack a lot, too. Usually wheat-thins or something with some dip.

It's also definitely NOT the way I lift. I was taught by my coach how to lift and how much to lift, he was very strict about it. He watched me every day (which, when I wasn't busy, was about 4-5 times a week) because he was insane about the weight room, especially for his starters. Hell, he made us skip gym class so we go work out. The man knew his stuff, he has 4 division 1 players in college football right now, two of them are outstanding tight ends (Dan Gronkowski of Maryland, and Rob Gronkowski of arizona, both starters, and BOTH are underclassmen). By the time we're out of high school, we know what to do. He started us off, and he made sure we know how to do things.

My typical workout is 10-12 minutes treadmill, then abs for about 7-8 minutes. Then I go to freeweights if I skip the jump roping routine. I do bench first to get it out of the way, I'm not a huge fan. Usually 3 sets of about 160-180. Then I'll do leg curls, then leg press, both 3 sets at around 170. Then off to deadlifts, which I do again 3 sets at 210 or so. If my back can take it I do squats twice. Then I'll do curls, rows and lat pulldowns. At the end of the workout, I'm physically exhausted, but happy.

Of course, then I get on the scale and see that nothing's happened. Hell, usually I LOSE weight. Sure, I'll probably get yelled at for the cardio, but shit, I'm a runner, it keeps me fast and in shape and that's what I need. What I want is a happy medium. I know and accept the fact that I'm going to be skinny as hell for the rest of my life, but I'd like to be fairly strong. All I really want to do is add a few pounds and hopefully some muscle mass. Don't criticize me, I know what I'm doing, I've been doing it for years and it works for me.

I can't work out as much as I want, but when I get the time to pick it back up again I'd like to know what'd help me the most without having a huge health risk. I'm not the healthiest guy, I tore my back up leg pressing when I was a junior, and it hasn't been the same since. Scoliosis doesn't help that fact, either. Then of course essential tremor sucks donkey balls, but whatever. I'm sold on creatine, but if anyone can help me with other, healthy supplements, I'd be ecstatic.

Thanks.

Sounds like what i used to think... i have an extremely fast metabolism as well... first of all what you listed doesnt sound like 4000 calories... maybe thats 3000 if you push on the gravy... you also need quality carbs more than anything to gain wieght... and you wont get strong if you do the same exercises every day... i always do two groups at a time, to give my muscles time to recover... stop doing cardio, and focus on doing 10-6-5-5-4 for each exercise, each set to failure... im no expert but this syetm worked for me pretty well.... if something isnt wokring for you switch it up.. and the most importan tthing about diet is CONSISTENCY.... having a bad day andf only taking in 2500 calories will set you back a week in temrs of weight gaining

**AKIRA** · 11-20-2007, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Neo

I shouldn't have said "natural". I just meant to say I've never taken any supplements.

It's NOT the diet. I take in about 3500-4000 calories a day. Yesterday, for instance, I had two of those packets of instant oatmeal for breakfast. Lunch, I had a huge plate of turkey, and corn. For dinner, I had Turkey again, with mashed potatoes and green beans. That's usually what I have every day. Maybe a protein/nutri-grain bar every once in a while. I snack a lot, too. Usually wheat-thins or something with some dip.

If you cant build with that caloric intake, then bump it up another 500. It does sound excessive on paper, but you might be an extreme ectomorph.

Originally Posted by Neo

It's also definitely NOT the way I lift. I was taught by my coach how to lift and how much to lift, he was very strict about it. He watched me every day (which, when I wasn't busy, was about 4-5 times a week) because he was insane about the weight room, especially for his starters. Hell, he made us skip gym class so we go work out. The man knew his stuff, he has 4 division 1 players in college football right now, two of them are outstanding tight ends (Dan Gronkowski of Maryland, and Rob Gronkowski of arizona, both starters, and BOTH are underclassmen). By the time we're out of high school, we know what to do. He started us off, and he made sure we know how to do things.

Lots and lots of variables when it comes to customizing a program template. I say customize cuz thats what it truly is, custom. Everyone's should be different. The guy might have had a solid base of knowledge, but you know yourself more than anyone. If you werent growing, it wasnt working.

Football coaches aim for explosive power and max strength, not to mention endurance. Hypertrophy wont be found in his programs. Remember, strength does not equal size, but it is related. Ever seen a smaller guy outlift a bigger guy? Thats cuz hes made a customized max strength program. His CNS is tuned perfectly for low, high intensity reps.

Originally Posted by Neo

My typical workout is 10-12 minutes treadmill, then abs for about 7-8 minutes. Then I go to freeweights if I skip the jump roping routine. I do bench first to get it out of the way, I'm not a huge fan. Usually 3 sets of about 160-180. Then I'll do leg curls, then leg press, both 3 sets at around 170. Then off to deadlifts, which I do again 3 sets at 210 or so. If my back can take it I do squats twice. Then I'll do curls, rows and lat pulldowns. At the end of the workout, I'm physically exhausted, but happy.

THATS A WORKOUT?! Holy shit, did this guy make this for you?? In a nut shell, thats a shit giving template you got there. Isolations before compounds, always sets of 3, full body thats (like you said) 4-5 times a week?! No wonder nothing is happening.

Ill bet you that you are overtrained, which is like taking a step backwards. Your CNS is shot and needs time to restart.

Originally Posted by Neo

Of course, then I get on the scale and see that nothing's happened. Hell, usually I LOSE weight. Sure, I'll probably get yelled at for the cardio, but shit, I'm a runner, it keeps me fast and in shape and that's what I need. What I want is a happy medium. I know and accept the fact that I'm going to be skinny as hell for the rest of my life, but I'd like to be fairly strong. All I really want to do is add a few pounds and hopefully some muscle mass.

Bingo No shit. Thats a sign of overtraining.

Originally Posted by Neo

Don't criticize me, I know what I'm doing, I've been doing it for years and it works for me.

I am not criticizing you, but that routine is TERRIBLE. What gave it away was that you said youve been doing it for years. "Everything works. Nothing works forever." Youre body has adapted to that volume and basically has a set amount of calories it has ready for to be used to accomplish that goal. These calories are the ones you dont want to use. (this is metaphorical)

Originally Posted by Neo

I can't work out as much as I want, but when I get the time to pick it back up again I'd like to know what'd help me the most without having a huge health risk. I'm not the healthiest guy, I tore my back up leg pressing when I was a junior, and it hasn't been the same since. Scoliosis doesn't help that fact, either. Then of course essential tremor sucks donkey balls, but whatever. I'm sold on creatine, but if anyone can help me with other, healthy supplements, I'd be ecstatic.

Thanks.

Having back problems on a leg press means your legs rounded at the bottom of the lift. Perhaps you went to far down? Again, this is where customization comes into play. You might have long legs, which makes leg pressing dangerous. Maybe you have poor form. Who knows, I am not there to evaluate your form.

Bottom line, change that doomed routine. Its way too much everyday. Shit, even half of it is a joke. Full body should ONLY be done 3 times a week. Afterall, thats what its made for: less frequency.

If youd like a few template ideas, feel free to PM me.

**AKIRA** · 11-20-2007, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by derrinx

Sounds like what i used to think... i have an extremely fast metabolism as well... first of all what you listed doesnt sound like 4000 calories... maybe thats 3000 if you push on the gravy... you also need quality carbs more than anything to gain wieght... and you wont get strong if you do the same exercises every day... i always do two groups at a time, to give my muscles time to recover... stop doing cardio, and focus on doing 10-6-5-5-4 for each exercise, each set to failure... im no expert but this syetm worked for me pretty well.... if something isnt wokring for you switch it up.. and the most importan tthing about diet is CONSISTENCY.... having a bad day andf only taking in 2500 calories will set you back a week in temrs of weight gaining

I disagree 100%. Going to failure should be accidental and not planned. Meaning, not that often!

Only time I am expecting failure is when I am doing a max day, which is every other month, if that.

**derrinx** · 11-20-2007, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by AKIRA

I disagree 100%. Going to failure should be accidental and not planned. Meaning, not that often!

Only time I am expecting failure is when I am doing a max day, which is every other month, if that.

i mean it works for me and im a pretty extreme ectomorph like this guy probably... i do a weight that i know i wouldnt be able to do one more without help... it has really helped my strength go up

**derrinx** · 11-20-2007, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by AKIRA

Bottom line, change that doomed routine. Its way too much everyday. Shit, even half of it is a joke. Full body should ONLY be done 3 times a week. Afterall, thats what its made for: less frequency.

agree with you there 100%

**310stanger** · 11-20-2007, 05:46 PM

I for one find that going to MOMENTARY muscular failure in a set really puts a good shock to the muscles I'm working. Temporary muscular failure though. I am sore after every single workout.

As far as Neo's workout, he works out full body ie the High Intensity principle created by Arthur Jones ( look him up). The problem is as Akira stated, hes overtraining. When you lift under the High Intensity method, you should only workout 3 times a week. The 4 to 5 times a week training is for the guys that lift using a split routine. Also do compound exercises before isolation, or one or the other. But never isolations before compounds.

**AKIRA** · 11-20-2007, 08:27 PM

I would do isolations before compounds sparingly and to overcome a plateau, but even then, there are other ideas.

On IM.com, I have a workout journal and I fail at an exercise 2-4 times a WEEK. If I do anymore than that, then I know the intensity is too high (intensity does not always = weight).

DOMS is not an indicator of growth or that you have a good workout. Its a good peace of mind, though.

For example, I am sore from benching 5 sets of 3 reps. Thats 15 total reps. Plus one other chest/push exercise. THATS IT. However, if I didnt get sore, but was able to put more weight on the bar next week, then who cares. And it has happened.