deer hunters....cool link

**0rion** · 10-14-2015, 12:57 PM

I've spent a couple hours reading this and watching the videos. Pretty cool. I have a pretty good theory on the northern ridge he visited only twice. See if you guys come up with one.

The Life and Times of Buck 8917 â€” Deer-Forest Study â€” Penn State University

**taman76** · 10-15-2015, 02:35 AM

Very interesting.

**0rion** · 10-15-2015, 05:17 AM

I think that deer was injured prior to his trek up north to that ridge. Bet if they look on that ridge there's st johns wort or something on that ridge he was using to try an heal up. If you notice he crossed that road at night both times just prior to going up to that ridge so I'm thinking hit by a car or a poacher took some shots at him.

**kingls1** · 10-15-2015, 04:19 PM

That was totally bad ass, Thanks for the link. Was cool seeing him in rifle season never move and always up to top in the morning. No dam wonder I haven't gotten a deer in years cause when I was younger I would go deep in the woods now I'm too lazy....lol
I wonder if where he returned to was where he was born but I do like your poached along the road cause he was young for dying. Also we have muzzle loader season in the beginning of January he could have possibly took a 50 cal. in a bad spot!

**35th-ANV-SS** · 10-16-2015, 03:36 AM

Personally, I think he knew he was going to die and picked that place to lay to rest. It's amazing to think that animals have the capacity to think like humans, and this study shows just how intelligent they are.

My guess...and just a total guess....is the place he only visited once before and went back to to die was a place of significance for him. What that means exactly I am not sure. Lower probability he was born there based on his home range, but possible. Or, some comments eluded to that's the last place he saw his mother. I guess we'll never know, but how amazing would that be?

**0rion** · 10-16-2015, 06:15 AM

here's something that people are missing on the "mother" aspect of it.....bucks never form a tight bond with their mother. They're born and a few months later they're kicked off on their own. A doe will stay with her mother until death so there's a strong bond between those 2 but young bucks are kicked off that first season. That's also been my working theory for years as to why the easiest deer in the woods to kill is a young buck. They don't have the luxury of learning all the tricks from their mothers on staying alive like a young doe. They're also many times kicked out on their own and one set of eyes isn't nearly as good as 2 or 3 sets.
Another thing I noticed is right after visiting that northern ridge after the first "incident" or whatever it was he headed to that safe ridge he spent rifle season on. That tells me he was looking for security which also supports the injury theory.

Jeff....I noticed that too during rifle season. He definitely knew exactly where he wanted to be during gun season. I would love to walk those ridges and see what all those looked like. His home range would be what you would expect but that point on the edge of the ridge is interesting. Wonder if it was covered in multiflora rose or some other kind of dense cover or it was wide open so he could see threats further off. I've spent a lot of time watching those videos and there's a lot to be learned there. The biggest thing I learned is that if you really want to kill a big buck you better get on him before rut starts. After rut starts you're just playing luck because their range opens up so much it'd take a miracle to guess where he's gonna be. Pre-rut they still stick around that home range pretty tight.
I'm leaving for camp today. I'm going to spend this afternoon walking around and finding some big rubs to start hunting.

***SMWS6TA*** · 10-16-2015, 07:30 AM

Tim my Dad thinks the same way about doe's and young bucks.

**Zinergy** · 10-16-2015, 10:08 AM

Young males have been known to stay with their mother for over a year. Sometimes a year and some months. I have seen 2 spikers with females this early season. Too early for rut aand there was no chasing going on. A buddy and I two seasons ago shot a nub buck and what we believed to be his mother at the same time. Didn't know the nubber was a male until we got close because the shots were over 150 yards. There were two smaller antlerless deer with them which were probably other young deer from the same big momma.

***SMWS6TA*** · 10-17-2015, 05:48 PM

Damn the deer are moving at night real bad now. Last week I've seen about 10 doe. Last night one was even in the neighborhood. She was a big one too for around here.

We also have some Coyotes that have moved in recently. Been hearing them at night. Those fuckers I'll shoot on sight.

**0rion** · 10-19-2015, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Zinergy

Young males have been known to stay with their mother for over a year. Sometimes a year and some months. I have seen 2 spikers with females this early season. Too early for rut aand there was no chasing going on. A buddy and I two seasons ago shot a nub buck and what we believed to be his mother at the same time. Didn't know the nubber was a male until we got close because the shots were over 150 yards. There were two smaller antlerless deer with them which were probably other young deer from the same big momma.

that's rare though and not the norm.....I've never seen a doe with a spike near her unless it was a young deer trying to start too early. You know rut is getting close when you start seeing those spikes and 4 points chasing....they always try to start a couple weeks early. Those are also the same deer responsible for all the early rubs and scrapes you run across. The mature bucks know to hold off.

**Zinergy** · 10-19-2015, 01:15 PM

I see them every season for the past 3 with large doe not chasing. I agree a year or more is rare but they generally stay with them for 6 months or so. Have the fawn in February and if there aren't enough small bucks around to form their own group they will stay with mom until September when bow opens. Sometimes all the way too the next spring.

**0rion** · 10-19-2015, 01:33 PM

must be the difference in being further up north....down here you never see that. Anytime I see a doe she either has a single or twin doe yearlings with her. You never see any type of buck with them. Anytime you see a small deer alone it's almost always a button that's been kicked off. Every now and then you'll see a single small doe not with mama but that's because momma ran into some misfortune.

***SMWS6TA*** · 10-19-2015, 01:45 PM

Would deer population (heavy/light) dictate whether Mommy kicks out the Bucks? Or Breed like White tail vs mule, etc?

**0rion** · 10-19-2015, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

Would deer population (heavy/light) dictate whether Mommy kicks out the Bucks? Or Breed like White tail vs mule, etc?

not really....it's a mechanism to keep inbreeding down. Same as most animals that kick out young males at some point that have to go claim their own territory. Deer just are able to breed after that first year really. The buttons not so much at 6 months but a 1.5 year old spike or 4 point will. The doe on the other hand even those first year doe will get hot and breed but here that's what's known as the 2nd rut and happens in late December into January.

**Zinergy** · 10-20-2015, 05:15 AM

Good ole second rut. For those who really like to freeze their asses off.

**0rion** · 10-20-2015, 09:27 AM

I've done it more than once. Our coldest day here though is shorts weather compared to the shit you guys deal with up there.

Last year I was in my stand in muzzy season and I want to say it started at -2 and warmed up to about 2 degrees. That's the coldest I've been in a long time. I was dressed for it but sitting in the stand for 4-5 hours in that I definitely got a chill to me. I was in my climber and when I went to climb down around lunch I was worried about falling out of the damn tree.....I was so cold shit wasn't working right. Joints were all stiff and I was shivering so bad I couldn't control it.

That was a long trip down the tree. For you guys up there that's a normal Monday.

**Zinergy** · 10-20-2015, 10:35 AM

Haha.

I have definitely been out there in the cold as well late in the season. -2 is cold even for us when you're sitting for 5 hours.

**0rion** · 10-20-2015, 11:42 AM

friday evening I hiked a stand in to a place I used my climber in last year. That walk in is a bitch and I got tired last year of being wiped out when I got to my spot then having to climb a tree in the climber. This year I wanted to get ahead of the game and put a hang on stand there. Wow.....am I getting old. That walk in is head and shoulders above any other walk I ever do there. It's a huge long ridge that I walk in on and it goes up forever before it ever levels out then I'm still about a quarter mile from where I want to go. Carrying the ladder, stand, and my bow on that hike Friday about done me in and then at one point while trying to hang the stand I almost gave up and just put it by the tree for another trip. I was wiped out. Arms and legs were jelly by the time I got the stand hung. That's when I discovered that I forgot my safety harness at camp. Then I discovered that when I fixed the seat on that stand I mounted the seat pad to the wrong side of the seat platform so when you folded it out the seat was facing down.

I did it on the tailgate of the truck and unfolded the seat base all the way which made it upside down. I was exhausted with no harness and no seat to sit on. Thought about it 2 seconds and climbed down and sat at the base of the tree. That shit had "tree stand fall" written all over it. I'm going to start training Zach on hanging stands and he'll be my hanger starting next year. I just don't have it in me anymore I guess. Too old and too fat.

**Zinergy** · 10-20-2015, 12:10 PM

Hang ons are by the far the biggest bitch to setup. Between me and the two guys I share properties with we have 2 hang ons setup, and 1 in the back of my truck, 3 climbers, 3 ladder stands setup and two ground blinds. We have each shot 1 deer this bow season and each passed on deer this bow season. I'd say the season is going pretty well all things considered. The next few weeks will be interesting.