getting ready for cam swap?

**Ed Howell** · 02-23-2012, 06:28 PM

ok so i got a stock motor slp catback hooker lts and offroad y slp etc. my next upgrade is going to be cam im going with a texas speed magic stick3 with 113lca. if i do it do i need a stall converter to be able to drive my car? i really dont want to go with a stall converter cause i still want a driveable street car without losing my mpg???

**tatertot91** · 02-23-2012, 06:38 PM

You're going to need a stall with that cam otherwise it will be a mess to drive around. Expect stalling and poor street manners. If you want a cam with decent street manners without installing a stall i'd recommend something like a tr224 or tr228

**0rion** · 02-23-2012, 07:47 PM

first I'd say educate yourself on what converters do before doing anything else. Secondly, you're saying you want to keep your mpg but you're talking about doing a fairly large cam? You don't mod a car for gas mileage. That cam will definitely need a stall. If you want to do the car right any cam you put in should have a stall added first. A stall is the best mod you can do for an auto car....bar none. It will still be completely streetable with a 3500-3600 rpm stall. I drove around for a year on a 3500 stall before I got my heads/cam and my wife routinely drives the car when the weather is nice. Once above 35-40mph the car drives exactly like stock after the converter locks. Do some reading and homework before making any decisions. Look for the thread FMR_TA has going right now.....he did a cam without a stall. Watch his updates and see how big a pain his car is gonna be.

**Ed Howell** · 02-24-2012, 04:41 AM

ok did some research im looking at a 2400 stall converter. anyone have any experience running a 2400 stall.

**0rion** · 02-24-2012, 11:13 AM

way too small......I bet that cam would require at least a 3500. I wouldn't even look at anything less than a 3500 no matter what cam you go with.

**0rion** · 02-24-2012, 11:16 AM

The common misunderstanding out there is that 3500 is the rpm's it takes to move the car......that's false. It will only take a couple hundred more rpm to move the car over stock. You will have those couple hundred extra rpm in city driving until you hit 35-40mph then it locks and drives exactly the same as stock. Where you really notice the stall is when you go wide open.......it'll be like a completely different car. That mod alone is worth half a second in the quarter. You will probably gain more from the stall than you will from the cam.

**chris1974** · 02-24-2012, 11:17 AM

OP..what's the big deal about a stall? Why don't you want to install one?

**allbaugh_04** · 02-24-2012, 11:58 AM

I wouldn't get anything lower than 4000rpm flash.

**Ed Howell** · 02-24-2012, 03:58 PM

i never really understood what stall converters do or how they function! ive always had a stick so never had to worry about it. ok so i go with the 3500 stall what will it be like driving and how does it help!!!! please explain i want my car to me right the first time

**0rion** · 02-24-2012, 05:12 PM

I would do a 3500 or 3600 rpm stall. I'm not going to get into how they work and all that....you can go to wikipedia and learn how a torque convertor works. I'll just tell you the reasons you want one and what a higher stall gives you. There are a couple different benefits to a higher stall. First there will be a stall torque ratio (STR).....this number is like a 1.8, 1.9, and up to like 2.6 or something like that. When the car is completely still and you first hammer it that's kind of a torque multiplier and goes away very quickly when the car starts moving. The higher this number the "tigher" the car will feel but that's kinda misleading because as soon as the car starts rolling it goes away. Another benefit is being able to either "flash" (flash is where you go from zero to wide open throttle all at once) or brake stall ( this is where you hold one foot on the brake and give throttle until just before the car starts to spin or push through the brakes) much higher than a stock stall. This lets you launch the car from a higher rpm and since there's more converter slip you'll jump up into the power band quicker where you car makes more horsepower. Third big advantage to a stall is called shift extension. Ever notice on the stock stall how you run through a gear and when the car shifts the rpm's drop way down? The shift extension of a loose stall will keep those rpm's much higher after the shift and you spend more time in the cars sweet spot.
When you go to a larger cam a few things happen. You lose vacuum down low in the idle and just off idle range through cam overlap. In order to make the car idle correctly you'll have to raise the idle. As a test put your foot on the brake while sitting still in drive and run the rpms up to 900-1000rpms. Without a higher stall that's what you're gonna be holding back all the time and in parking lots and stop light to stop light driving you'll constantly be riding the brakes because the car will be in a kind of cruise control situation. It's always going to want to be moving. Can you do it? Yep but it'll be a huge pain in the ass. There are some other bonuses to having the stall but those are a couple.

How will the car be different? First off.....it'll haul ass. You'll get to the sweet spot faster and stay there longer. I don't care if it's from a dig or roll racing.....huge huge improvement. From a dead stop you'll notice that it'll take a couple hundred more rpm to get the car moving along. Cruising below 35 mph you'll notice more rpm and to accelerate slowly from these speeds it'll take a few more rpm. I'm not talking a huge amount here....couple hundred probably. Once you get to the lock up point, where ever that's set at in your tune, it will drive exactly like stock. So if your on the freeway you will notice zero difference in the car unless you floor it.

Couple things to keep in mind. You will need a tune and you most definitely will need a tranny cooler. The higher stall will build more heat so unless you put a cooler on it you'll kill the tranny with heat. After the cooler and stall on mine my tranny temps are lower than they were stock. The good news is a tranny cooler is pretty damn cheap and easy to install. The tune you can sometimes get away with but most likely it'll start banging the limiter on the shifts. Not everyone has that issue but most do so I like to tell everyone to plan on a tune. I'm sure I left some stuff out here and I'm not a tranny or stall expert but I have IMO a decent grasp on them and the benefits of getting one. Put one in there and stop back in and thank me for talking you into one.....it'll be the best mod you'll do to the car as far as bang for your buck.

**Ed Howell** · 02-24-2012, 05:42 PM

ok i now fully understand. thanks for the help its greatly appreciated. just one other question will my stock tranny last for awhile or should i find one and have it built for when the original gives up. tuning is not a problem i have a guy here locally that does hp tuning on this cars so ill be seeing him anyways for a few other mods im having installed

**0rion** · 02-24-2012, 06:00 PM

as long as you keep the temps down and change your fluid/filter regularly your stock tranny should be fine. They're known not to be real strong tranny's but many many people including myself get good miles out of them. I'm at 97k on mine and it's been stalled the last 20k probably. It's been beat on most of it's life too and still holding up.

**allbaugh_04** · 02-25-2012, 05:53 AM

If you have the money for a rebuild. I would set it aside and hold onto it. Not many people have had good luck with the 4L60E. I don't know how but even with the rebuild I wore out all the clutches, twice. Its been good on these new clutches though. Just an FYI though, a lot of people hate this transmission more than me.

**donman** · 02-25-2012, 05:19 PM

Orion,

Thanks for the long explination. That was great information.

Don

**0rion** · 02-25-2012, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by donman

Orion,

Thanks for the long explination. That was great information.

Don

no problem...it could probably be more detailed and a few more things added but that should get people started. I would say out of all the mods that the converter is the most misunderstood or unknown mod there is. It's by no means a bad reflection on people.....I just don't think it gets discussed as much so there are more people in the dark on them. If more people had first hand experience with a car before and after a higher stall there would be way more of them on the street. I just don't see much negative to getting one. In stop and go traffic you'll use more gas but if you're modding a car gas mileage should be the furthest thing from you mind. Even in that aspect we so have it made over the cars people were modding 20 years ago. Overdrive tranny's and lock up converters........people in those days didn't have that stuff and would be rocking single digit gas mileage.