I aint got one of these

**Sarge** · 02-01-2010, 03:33 PM

What do you folks think? Yeah or Nay...
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/15062

or this?
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/15613

**Willfully Armed** · 02-01-2010, 03:56 PM

I liked my Thunder 380. But i could find better things to buy with $360.

**Sarge** · 02-01-2010, 04:12 PM

Do tell? Stoeger? I already got Stoegers, Ruger et al...I'm looking for something I dont have...

**ztrouble** · 02-01-2010, 04:16 PM

nay and maybe. For the price I would look at an RIA 1911 if you don't have one already

**Sarge** · 02-01-2010, 04:21 PM

No I dont have a Rock Island...isnt that like a entry level 1911?

**ztrouble** · 02-01-2010, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge

No I dont have a Rock Island...isnt that like a entry level 1911?

yeah but I forgot who I was talking to and was trying to stay in the same price range lol. If budget has no bearing on the weapon I'd opt for a Nighthawk GRP or Les Bear TRS (just my two personal favorite 1911's)

**2000LS1Bird** · 02-01-2010, 10:07 PM

I don't trust those Bersas, Sarge.

Never have. Recently my brother bought a .380, and it jammed once about every 50-60 rounds. I'd never even give the .40 a chance. Not when there are so many other reputable brands out there.

Now that 18-round Witness on the other hand...

**Sarge** · 02-02-2010, 04:37 AM

This months NRA magazine they tested a bunch of .380's. All of them jammed/Failed to fire etc. All of them. I think the .380 itself is underpowered for a blow back gun myself.

**jad628** · 02-02-2010, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

This months NRA magazine they tested a bunch of .380's. All of them jammed/Failed to fire etc. All of them. I think the .380 itself is underpowered for a blow back gun myself.

Browning and Beretta made hi-capacity .380's that were some of the most reliable in the caliber. The .380 got the unfortunate franchise tag on smaller, inexpensive pistols and they only function REMOTELY well with FMJ RN ammo. Most people want to carry defensive loads (usually HP), and the feed ramps were never designed well enough to function well with those rounds on most.380's.

With the slew of ultra-compact 9mm's out there, the .380 ACP is not a good choice. I feel the 9mm is the minimum a person should carry for defense. The .380 is best suited as a back up weapon. As soon as Kel-Tec came out with a 9mm the size of the Grendel .380 I carried as a back-up, I switched.

**jad628** · 02-02-2010, 05:06 AM

Sarge,

My opinion is walk away from deals on most entry-level pistols. It's okay at first, but you will soon want to improve on it and the resale value will be next to nothing. On average, a used gun will only bring you about 60-70% of it's USED Blue Book value, and a new (100%) gun becomes 98% as soon as it goes boom the first time. Carrying it for 6 months and it's down to 95%. Just imagine going back into the store with a gun you bought for $300 six months later and only getting $180 in trade-in value for it.

It's just not a good investment, especially if you can buy a quality firearm in the first place. Quality over quantity is my suggestion.

**Sarge** · 02-02-2010, 06:40 AM

Oh it aint a investment....and I carry Springfield's or Glocks....and on occasion one of my Stoegers (Beretta) Cougars as they all are extremely reliable and I have trained extensively on all of them......I just like guns....lots of guns.....
I buy Rugers/S&W et al cuz I am hard as hell on my guns....and I like a good shootin pistol that doesnt cost me $900 bucks that I am gonna beat the shit out of anyway....I shoot all +P+ 9MM.....I will say I have been impressed with the 9MM Ruger P95.....My son in law and I beat the shit out of it.....no failures of any kind and it is very accurate....it is $300 bucks delivered.....
Hi Points and Kel Tecs dont last long around here for sure....

**jad628** · 02-02-2010, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Oh it aint a investment....and I carry Springfield's or Glocks....and on occasion one of my Stoegers (Beretta) Cougars as they all are extremely reliable and I have trained extensively on all of them......I just like guns....lots of guns.....
I buy Rugers/S&W et al cuz I am hard as hell on my guns....and I like a good shootin pistol that doesnt cost me $900 bucks that I am gonna beat the shit out of anyway....I shoot all +P+ 9MM.....I will say I have been impressed with the 9MM Ruger P95.....My son in law and I beat the shit out of it.....no failures of any kind and it is very accurate....it is $300 bucks delivered.....
Hi Points and Kel Tecs dont last long around here for sure....

I hear ya, but I just don't like the bargain new guns. I'd rather put the same money in a used gun of better quality. Now I have bought a few like that, a Ruger Blackhawk .357 4" that was rough on the exterior (blood had actually ate off the bluing but that's another story), but perfect mechanically. I took that gun, stripped it, and applied a good coat of quality flat spray paint (!) to everything but the trigger guard, hammer, and backstrap, which I buffed out. The gun looked custom! I mated the grips to the backstrap with no overlay which I was sort of proud of, and gave them a tung oil finish buffed down to satin. I proceeded to carry it in fishing tackle boxes, under crap in the truck, and in a cheap holster while sawing firewood. Whenever I had nicked the "finish" enough, I repainted it! A friend at a gun store took it on trade and actually gave me MORE than I had in it.

That stuff appeals to me.

**Willfully Armed** · 02-03-2010, 09:10 AM

i never once expreienced a failure with my thunder 380 in 200 rounds.

as for RIA, yes they may be entry-level, but they have a warranty and awesome gunsmiths. one if my IDPA buddies sent his RIA in for a burr in the feed ramp, and it came back with a new slide and new internals, and it was accurized by the gunsmith, all for FREE. That damn thing is as tight as my kimber.

the best $350 they ever spent.

You wont get that from Kimber.

**hutch1999** · 02-03-2010, 11:44 AM

Nay sarge, I know you can find better. If you like sport shooting with a 9mm why not get a glock 17 or 19? That's what I did. $600 tax and all for my brand new 17. That price includes the two new glock 33rd mags. Before tax and mags it was around $460.

**tremiles** · 02-03-2010, 03:22 PM

The ergo's on the witness, if anything like my CZ's are SUPERB. I've got a CZ75 SP01 and it feels perfect in the hand. It doesn't have a bad trigger out of the box, and EAA/Tangfolio are pretty widely respected in competitive circles. They are extremely accurate.

If you can find one at a gunshow, put your mitts on it and see for yourself

CONs there is little aftermarket support.

**Z28Thunder** · 02-03-2010, 08:11 PM

I say yes to the Bersa and the Witness... I have a Bersa Thunder .380.. I also have a EEA Witness in .40. The Bersa is very accurate and could be a ccw... The Witness is very accurate also. The thing I like about the Witness you can swap uppers like you can on a AR.. You can go from .38 to .45 just by switching uppers. I got lucky with my Witness got it at a pawn shop for 299.

**2000LS1Bird** · 02-03-2010, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge

This months NRA magazine they tested a bunch of .380's. All of them jammed/Failed to fire etc. All of them. I think the .380 itself is underpowered for a blow back gun myself.

My Sig P232 has never jammed. Its had about 500 rounds put through it.

Best 380 I've ever owned. Hard to justify carrying it though, because it has a non-combat clip release, and is about the size of most sub-compact 9's out on the market today.

Mine's exactly like this one, even has the night sites:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9_Xm2Ks550[/ame]

--

**Sarge** · 02-05-2010, 03:35 AM

I think alot of folks limpwrist the lil guns and they jam....

**jad628** · 02-05-2010, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

I think alot of folks limpwrist the lil guns and they jam....

I know they do.

**dpinson** · 02-07-2010, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

I think alot of folks limpwrist the lil guns and they jam....

exactly and whats even funnier is most people dont know what u are talking about and still continue to complain when a gun jams that has a little 3 inch barrel and no real balls behind the bullet