Rookie?, What is Torque Management?

BBATCAR · 01-27-2006, 09:21 AM

I did a search TQ management and got results to remove it, but what exactly is it?

I know getting a performance stall on an A4 requires a tune of shift points and removing torque management, however I have an opportunity to get it done on my stock converter and trans shift points/firming them up.

I'm still a ways away from getting the high stall funds. So with my mods in my sig. will it help getting the TQ management removed and shift points firmed & checked on a stock trans? Thanks for any help...

**ss~zoso~ss** · 01-27-2006, 09:28 AM

i'm not too sure what exactly it is but its something to do with the clutches inside the tranny, they reduce the ammount of tourqe transfered, i'd say i'd be worth getting done, you'll probably be all over the road in the rain tho

**2001NBMZ28** · 01-27-2006, 10:57 AM

Some say keep it, some say just modify it, some say do away with it - I had mine tuned out completely. Here's an article/description for the '02 cars: www.ls1camaro.net/article.php?sid=50

BBATCAR · 01-27-2006, 11:10 AM

2001NBMZ28, Great read...Since you have a stall and gears I see why you took it out... I guess I would get benifit even without a stall

**2001NBMZ28** · 01-27-2006, 11:26 AM

I recently bought a '01 Helms - after seeing your post I'm going to look it up tonight and see if the description is the same.

Blue01C5 · 01-29-2006, 08:16 AM

Torque management is designed to keep you from abusing yourself or your car. (Pick the one that applies.) There are actually several torque management strategies in the LSx operating systems. Torque can be reduced immediately after an upshift or down shift and it can also be altered when the system is in "Abuse mode". If the system determines abuse mode should be activated, it simply retards timing as a means of reducing torque. In most cases, this isn't the ideal situation if you're looking for maximum power.

There is also Brake Torque Management that limits engine speed if you step on the brake pedal and accelerator at the same time. This system cuts cylinders and alters throttle opening on ETC vehicles to limit the amount of torque that can be applied while the brakes are applied. This may or may not be active, depending on the vehicle.

**SeVeReDiStOrTiOn** · 01-29-2006, 06:39 PM

It pulls timing during shifts to save your tranny...the added wear isn't worth the slight gains

BBATCAR · 01-29-2006, 07:03 PM

So if I was going to get a stall, say 3000, do I do anything to the torque managment, maybe reduce it during the upshift? remove it , or leave it alone? Mine is a 2001 and I heard I needed to remove it with a stall but don't want to screw things up

lee1rbc · 01-30-2006, 03:53 PM

When I first got my car dyno tuned I was telling the mechanic that my LT1 was not as fast but would hit second hard and my LS1 when it hits second falls on its face. He said it was the TM and after the TM was removed and it made a BIG difference in the car. In peak hp you don't see a difference but at 3000rpms I gained 30ftlbs. Now when my car hits second it doesn't fall on its face instead it does a pretty little S dance.

lee1rbc · 01-30-2006, 03:56 PM

The problem is if your trans is doing soft shifts the added tq will wear and your tranny so you do need to firm up the shift.

BBATCAR · 01-30-2006, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by lee1rbc

The problem is if your trans is doing soft shifts the added tq will wear and your tranny so you do need to firm up the shift.

So Lee1rbc,

When I do the stall I should remover the TM and then firm up the shifts, the car will run better but there will be some wear in the trans, however the firmer shift will help ?

lee1rbc · 01-30-2006, 05:38 PM

First off, the avg Joe wants His car to shift smooth so he doesn't spill His Lattes. And smoother a trans shifts more wear is done to the trans. As a result if your car puts out alot of tq, you either (A) nd the trans to shift harder or (B) TM .

As for the general concern of wear and tear. I think the question is, Do you want your car to go faster. Faster you go, more wear and tear, its the name of the game. Remove TM, more wear and tear, add 50hp, more wear and tear.

Think of it this way. If removing the TM gives you a minimal gain in TQ, it can only do minimal wear and tear.
I have my car set to shift hard, and will nvr go back, and I dont drink Lattes in my car.

lee1rbc · 01-30-2006, 05:42 PM

Seriously, from what I have been told firming the shift allows you to remove the TM.

**oneBADDz** · 01-30-2006, 05:50 PM

lee is telling you right, a smooth shifting tranny is only smooth because it slips a little, which adds to wear on a tranny. Stiffer shifting is actually better for tranny life to a point. Granted, if you make 500 hp and it's banging gears harder than I'd bang pamela anderson shifting harder causes more wear. In an average hp car stiffer shifts are better for the tranny though. Don't necessarily delete trq man, but get the shift time reduced while leaving shift pressure alone until you get a stall

Blue01C5 · 02-01-2006, 06:57 PM

Transmission wear increases or decreases resulting from tuning modifications are primarily a function of transmission pressure modifications. When you pull timing after a shift, all you're doing is backing off the power so the shift doesn't feel as firm. This allows you to firm up the shifts to reduce slippage but keep a relatively smooth shift feel. A high stall converter will also soften shift feel, all other things being equal. I've had a lot of good results from pulling some spark at lower throttle position shifts to get a softer shift feel during light to moderate acceleration. I don't pull any spark at wide open throttle shifts because that's where you're looking for maximum performance. It's also a good idea to reduce shift times across the board. This approach should give you excellent trans life, reasonable part throttle shift quality and a nice hard wide open throttle shift.

lee1rbc · 02-01-2006, 07:59 PM

Well spoken.

txcosmos · 02-02-2006, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Blue01C5

Transmission wear increases or decreases resulting from tuning modifications are primarily a function of transmission pressure modifications. When you pull timing after a shift, all you're doing is backing off the power so the shift doesn't feel as firm. This allows you to firm up the shifts to reduce slippage but keep a relatively smooth shift feel. A high stall converter will also soften shift feel, all other things being equal. I've had a lot of good results from pulling some spark at lower throttle position shifts to get a softer shift feel during light to moderate acceleration. I don't pull any spark at wide open throttle shifts because that's where you're looking for maximum performance. It's also a good idea to reduce shift times across the board. This approach should give you excellent trans life, reasonable part throttle shift quality and a nice hard wide open throttle shift.

I went through this first hand. My old tuner left me with soft shifts, after the 3200 went in, and the tranny was slipping. Some sensor also burned up, causing it to slip more and more.

A good tuner can give you "normal" shifting under "normal" driving conditions, and firmer shifts under a heavy throttle. Boost your line pressure a little bit, but don't go crazy, it can cause prolems with hoses, etc. He should also be able to remove some of the TM, not all. Keep some until you do upgrades to the tranny, just to be safe.

Like they said, the firmer you can get those clutch plates together, the better you and your tranny are.

BBATCAR · 02-02-2006, 10:52 AM

Thanks all, I should just leave the stock stall shifts alone or firm/timed a little different until I get a stall. After the stall installation, I should get a tuner to set up shift points, pressure and TQ Management adjusted some but not removed.. Is that a fair statement?

txcosmos · 02-02-2006, 11:00 AM

It depends on how aggressive you want the car, and if you are willing to break something. Mine is a daily driver, so I have to be kind of mild.

You should be able to move the shift points to get the max out of each shift. Add a couple of pounds of pressure to the lines, and she should go pretty good. Under WOT, it should shift almost at redline.

BBATCAR · 02-02-2006, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by txcosmos

It depends on how aggressive you want the car, and if you are willing to break something. Mine is a daily driver, so I have to be kind of mild.

You should be able to move the shift points to get the max out of each shift. Add a couple of pounds of pressure to the lines, and she should go pretty good. Under WOT, it should shift almost at redline.

Are you talking High stall, or stock stall or both? mine is a daily driver too...