How many miles on synthetic oil?

**lonewolf37** · 06-16-2008, 06:08 PM

I run PP 10-30 and Amsoil Filters for 5K. My UOAs and a renowned tribologist tell me my oil is fine. Fuel dilution is the thing I have to really worry about. Sarge is right: UOAs beat eyeballs and fingers.

**lonewolf37** · 06-24-2008, 06:31 PM

My last UOA came back with 1.68% fuel. It trashed my oil, and raised wear. Back to the shop for tuning, and the OC interval goes to 3000M.

**Sarge** · 06-25-2008, 04:22 AM

Yup....fuel will trash any oil....I run 500 mile OCI's because of fuel dilution....but at least you see the benefit of a UOA by a lab to point it out

**Poppn** · 06-25-2008, 06:01 AM

You guys are running heavily modified engines right?

A stock LS1 should be able to do 3,000 miles no problem right??

**Sarge** · 06-25-2008, 08:19 AM

Yeah....of course a slight modified ( bolt ons) should go 3K....but I always tell people....run 3K and send in a sample...you may be able to go 5K or need to change a viscosity or something....have a sample tested to be accurate and sure....cheap and easy....\
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html

**Poppn** · 06-25-2008, 08:26 AM

i saw that link you posted in a different thread, already ordered the free sample kit

I'm a bit skeptical about writing my credit card number down and sending it to them though.

**lonewolf37** · 06-25-2008, 08:04 PM

Once Blackstone has you on file, you don't have to resend your CC#. Plus they keep a website where you can access your records (Password Protected).
If you really have tuning issues, step up to a Dyson Analysis.

**Sarge** · 06-27-2008, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Poppn

i saw that link you posted in a different thread, already ordered the free sample kit

I'm a bit skeptical about writing my credit card number down and sending it to them though.

I just have them send me a shitload of the kits for free and send a check along with the sample.

**Poppn** · 06-27-2008, 09:19 AM

actually, I just got my new checkbook in so maybe I'll put those to good use

**Mr. Luos** · 06-27-2008, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. Luos

Haven't seen that light in 2 years.
7K miles.
50+ passes.

Seems accurate.

God damn it...
It finally popped up last night. Damn near 9K miles since the swap.
I turned it off, and didn't change my oil.

**69LT1Bird** · 06-27-2008, 10:11 AM

These debates are always fun. Back in the day, 3,000 miles changes had their place, ineffcient carburetors or poorly designed fuel injection would waste gas and allow it to enter the crankcase and would dilute the oil. If you have a modern vehicle that needs the oil changed at 500-1000 miles because of fuel dilution, maybe you should fix the underlying problem instead of wasting oil and oil analysis time. When OEM's can warranty their powertrains for 100,000 miles and do so based on their time proven algorithms for oil change intervals, I am pretty sure we can stop the 3,000 mile oil change debate. If an engine has mechanical issues that cause excess blowby, leaks, poor fuel atomization, now that is a different story. But a properly tuned and maintained engine will be fine with longer intervals, all based on the environment that you drive in.

**Sarge** · 06-27-2008, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by 69LT1Bird

These debates are always fun. Back in the day, 3,000 miles changes had their place, ineffcient carburetors or poorly designed fuel injection would waste gas and allow it to enter the crankcase and would dilute the oil. If you have a modern vehicle that needs the oil changed at 500-1000 miles because of fuel dilution, maybe you should fix the underlying problem instead of wasting oil and oil analysis time. When OEM's can warranty their powertrains for 100,000 miles and do so based on their time proven algorithms for oil change intervals, I am pretty sure we can stop the 3,000 mile oil change debate. If an engine has mechanical issues that cause excess blowby, leaks, poor fuel atomization, now that is a different story. But a properly tuned and maintained engine will be fine with longer intervals, all based on the environment that you drive in.

I appreciate your input and welcome by the way.....I think being new here you may have missed something in my 500 mile OCI statement.....it aint stock friend....by a long shot.....and for the sake of accuracy I have an engine timer and we change oil based on time the engine has ran and not miles....it just usually comes out close to 500 miles....but I agree in a stock or bolt on modified engine they should get much more than 500-1000 mile OCI's for sure....nobody gonna argue that with anybody....I hope...

**69LT1Bird** · 06-27-2008, 06:09 PM

Sarge,
I didn't mean to rock the boat. I just try to help out people who are either lead along too easily and get taken or just don't understand cars.

**Wesman** · 06-27-2008, 08:22 PM

Ho much increased wear does fuel dilution in the oil really cause??

My car doesn't have a problem with that, but there was a guy in the shop that has an Evo 9 with all kinds of mods and the oil wreaked of gasoline and methanol. I mean you could just pull the dipstick and smell it. He thought it was funny for some reason, and he said changing the oil doesn't help because it just gets contaminated again within a few hundred miles.

**LS2Tuner** · 06-27-2008, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Wesman

Ho much increased wear does fuel dilution in the oil really cause??

My car doesn't have a problem with that, but there was a guy in the shop that has an Evo 9 with all kinds of mods and the oil wreaked of gasoline and methanol. I mean you could just pull the dipstick and smell it. He thought it was funny for some reason, and he said changing the oil doesn't help because it just gets contaminated again within a few hundred miles.

Your first ?. . . . . . . . . A LOT! ! It basically breaks the oil down to wear it doesn't lube as it is supposed to. Big cams will cause more fuel dilution due to all the over lap at low rpm. That's why Sarge changes his at 500 miles. If he goes anymore the oil isn't doing it's job anymore and causes more wear to all components (bearings,rings,piston skits,oil pump vanes,etc.).

The idiot with the EVO has issue's with his oil due to too much boost and probably stock rings which weren't designed to handle that kind of high cylinder pressure most give them. And with those huge amounts of boost they give them it takes alot of fuel (gas & methanol) to compensate for all that air they are forcing into it. Well some of that gets blown right by the ring pack and into the oil.

**blackSS01** · 06-27-2008, 08:48 PM

My SS never smells like gas, but my DD (92 Corsica/ 3.1 L V-6) smells a little like gas. I believe it was caused by rough idle (Ignition Control Module) went out. So should I change the oil right away. It is Valvoline 10W-30 with about 1400 miles on the oil. Like I said, it smells just a little bit, not a over powering smell. It has 142,000 miles on it. Right now I am getting 28.9 mpg with that little fucker. With a 1st, 2nd, Drive tranny.

**LS2Tuner** · 06-27-2008, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by blackSS01

My SS never smells like gas, but my DD (92 Corsica/ 3.1 L V-6) smells a little like gas. I believe it was caused by rough idle (Ignition Control Module) went out. So should I change the oil right away. It is Valvoline 10W-30 with about 1400 miles on the oil. Like I said, it smells just a little bit, not a over powering smell. It has 142,000 miles on it. Right now I am getting 28.9 mpg with that little fucker. With a 1st, 2nd, Drive tranny.

Once it really get's broke down from fuel you can actually feel the difference between your fingers.

Do a experiment on your own. Take the oil from the Corsica's dip stick and wipe it on your index finger and thumb. Now take your fingers and squeeze them together as hard as you can and rub them together. Now immediately wipe your fingers off with carb or brake clean on a rag. Then proceed to take some new oil pour a small amount in the lid and dip your index finger in it and do the same. If it's broke down you'll feel a difference or at least I can. Some people's feelings in there hands are not what other are but I can feel it. Try it out.

But do yourself a favor if your driving that thing for mileage go ahead and SeaFoam that bitch through a vacuum line and then change the oil and put some Penzoil Platinum in it and it will help in your mileage. With that kind of milage on it the carbon build up on the intake valve and piston face is huge!

**Sarge** · 06-28-2008, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Wesman

Ho much increased wear does fuel dilution in the oil really cause??

My car doesn't have a problem with that, but there was a guy in the shop that has an Evo 9 with all kinds of mods and the oil wreaked of gasoline and methanol. I mean you could just pull the dipstick and smell it. He thought it was funny for some reason, and he said changing the oil doesn't help because it just gets contaminated again within a few hundred miles.

Fuel breaks down the add packs and significantly reduces the lubrication qualities of the oil. It is funny when it happens to a ricer though.....I agree

**Sarge** · 06-28-2008, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by 69LT1Bird

Sarge,
I didn't mean to rock the boat. I just try to help out people who are either lead along too easily and get taken or just don't understand cars.

I'm too old to have my boat rocked anymore friend

I appreciate your concern for the bullshit one finds on most internet car forums......we do our best to slap that shit quick and stick with facts here....in that vein....
I would be remiss if I failed to add a critical component of the cause of fuel dilution here.....mechanical has been featured as the main cause in this most recent discussion.....and it is not....so in the spirit of accuracy allow me....
All internal combustion engines....be they heavily modified or a bone stock Nissan Maxima....have blow by that allows either raw fuel or burnt gases into the crankcase....just a basic engine design 101.....the real cause of "excessive" fuel buildup in the oil is driving habits/routines.....what I mean is guy (A) drives his car 4 miles round trip to the office.....he never gets his oil up to operating temps to burn off the fuel in his oil....guy (B) drives 20 miles to his offices and gets his oil up to temp long enough to burn off the fuel in his oil.....So both guys can have the exact same car/motor/oil/viscosity etc....both in perfect mechanical condition.....and have different oil change interval requirements based on nothing but driving routines.....Fuel dilution breaks the oil down and deplenishes the TBN...this renders the oil basically useless...and the UOA will reflect the dilution and the ability of the oil to do its job....get it?

**blackSS01** · 06-28-2008, 01:29 PM

I can't feel much of a difference, so mine must not be that bad. I am still going to change it next friday which would put me at about 1,700 miles on the oil. I wouldn't mind switching to synthentics for the Corsica, but I am afraid it will clean the motor too good, which will cause some seals to leak, that previously didn't.