'03 SRT-4 Stg1 vs '01 WS6 = Tie?

[RandomOmen]

lol tonite my friend with an srt beat 2 cobras and a mach 1 spraying...there fast cars just hes selling it to get a ws6 or a gto....he has work done to his srt4

Clearly! At least to be beating the sprayed Mach 1. If those Cobras are older models, then I'm not impressed. If they're the later ones, then I'm impressed.

[RandomOmen]

Agreed. Too much bullshit to deal with and its just an unnatural movement, if you will, when a FWD accelerates from a stop.

I couldn't agree more. This is one of the biggest gripes about it in the srt-4 community. Its first gear traction is awful, nevermind if you slap an aftermarket WGA on it. Wheel-hop can be so bad that you'll pull your own shift knob off. (I'm not kidding - I've done it twice.) Pulling a 2.1 60' on street tires is actually considered "all right."

Other then the neon being fast, upgradable, it looks a bit...queer to me.

I'll meet you halfway on this and say there are a lot better looking vehicles out there. The WS6 for one No contest on that one.

[CHiCKeN08]

Clearly! At least to be beating the sprayed Mach 1. If those Cobras are older models, then I'm not impressed. If they're the later ones, then I'm impressed.

they where 03's one claimed he had a whipple but we didnt believe him

[4TEHW]

I'm not entirely sure why you guys continually refer to a DOMESTIC car as 'rice'. In reality, rice is more a state of mind, or mentality. We've all seen the pictures of horribly disfigured cars...they range from your typical Honda, to Fords, Chevys and so on.

To call a well designed and built car (for 20k) rice simply because it's an inline 4 with a turbo is rather ignorant. I purchased my SRT-4 for several reasons. I needed 4 doors. I needed something under 20k...and I wanted something fast with potential to be faster. I have a ton of respect for the LT1/LS1/LS2/Etc. guys out there, and even have a few friends rockin' TA's and Camaros.

I have to say, not one of my V8 friends ever gives me a hard time about my car. They respect it for what it is and what it was designed to do. Oh, and to address some comments I've seen about this board becoming an 'SRT-4' forum...can you blame us? Have any of you been to srtforums.com? We don't have our poor reputation for nothing. The majority of owners are punk teenage kids that think F&F is informative and instructional.

When I think of V8's (especially Camaros and TA's), I think of more mature and seasoned car enthusiasts. There's certainly the whole redneck stereotype, but in general the level of respect, support and discussion is MUCH higher than an SRT-4 board.

Sadly, after returning and reading over a few threads, I'm beginning to think I was wrong.

[joejenkinsglass]

you need to read from the beginning he was asking if he should sell the ws6 duh what kind of comment should he expect from ls1.com? the neon is a great car for some we do respect that hell my first car was a dodge shadow remember them but hey i was 16 and that was all i could afford but i didnt rice it out just drove it till i could afford my first f-body this web site is NOT for neons yeah we know what they are just like its not a mustang site so if you want someone to agree with your chioce of car make sure yo are at the correct web site

[4TEHW]

you need to read from the beginning he was asking if he should sell the ws6 duh what kind of comment should he expect from ls1.com? the neon is a great car for some we do respect that hell my first car was a dodge shadow remember them but hey i was 16 and that was all i could afford but i didnt rice it out just drove it till i could afford my first f-body this web site is NOT for neons yeah we know what they are just like its not a mustang site so if you want someone to agree with your chioce of car make sure yo are at the correct web site

First and foremost, would a bit of grammar kill you?

Second, where in my post did I say the guy MUST choose his Neon over his WS6? I DID spend the time reading the entire thing, and the most compelling argument for why he should sell the Neon was....*drum roll*

"It's a Neon." or equally as clever "It's a ricer POS."

Way to win it over with logic. It's obviously HIS decision based on HIS current needs and wants. If I didn't need a 4 door car, I'd be driving a coupe. Maybe an LS1 powered car, maybe not. Fact is, whatever respect you claim you have isn't being shown...just a heap ton of ignorance and bias. The bias I can understand, being that it IS an LS1 forum. I can even respect and appreciate the fact, but at least use reasons founded on FACT and LOGIC instead of 'ricer replies'.

[RandomOmen]

Okay, joe, go back to my first post and see my main point of the post. Then follow up by reading the rest of my posts. You'll see that I was looking for why (or how) my "superior" WS6 was practically equaled by my SRT-4 with its light modification. I wanted to know if my experience was typical. Given that both cars are common, and the specific modication done to the SRT-4 is very common (Stage 1), it's not unreasonable to HOPE someone on here has the same mechanical situation going on since this website is open to the entire freakin' world.

Further, you'll notice by the wording of my posts that I came for information. I was patient with everyone, and didn't fan the flames. I ignored those who decided to be rude and unhelpful for no reason but to bash on a srt-4. When you're done reading my posts, and realize I approached everyone respectfully to obtain information, feel free to apologize for making a point to be unhelpful. I won't expect it though.

[4TEHW]

^ Right now, what do you want? Gas mileage isn't going to be incredibly different between the two. I know when people lean theirs out a bit (SRT-4's run pig rich from the factory), it's typical to get 24 or so around town and 30-32 on the highway.

But aside from that, they're obviously two VERY different platforms. Can you live with FWD? Do you need the 4 doors? Do you prefer N/A or Turbo? All those questions, and more (insurance would be another) can only answer the question of "which should I keep".

As for the outcome of your race...an SRT-4 stock (04-05) will dyno around 225-230whp. With ONLY Stage 1 on an '03 SRT-4, you're essentially a stock 04-05 SRT-4 pushing ~230whp. In my experience and opinion, if the SRT-4 hangs until the top of third gear, that sounds possible. The LS1 should still pull on it at a healthy rate. Check out the video section over on srtforums.com, or look some up on Youtube, Streetfire and so forth. At this point, that's your best bet as far as getting a straight, unfiltered answer.

[joejenkinsglass]

ok so now we are grammar.com who cares the point is the cars are NOT comparable and yes im sorry that you didnt know they were not comparable i have owned a 4-cyl fwd car (shadow) it was a 5-speed and at 16 didnt seem to be slow until i did race it that was my first encounter with a 5.0 the srt engine does perform well add the light car and that equals good performance in the end the performance of ANY vehicle depends on power to weight no matter how many stickers you put on it put a turbo on the ws6 and try the race again and if you want respect then you are in the wrong hobby/sport we car guys no matter what brand hold our brand up high above the rest

[4TEHW]

ok so now we are grammar.com who cares the point is the cars are NOT comparable and yes im sorry that you didnt know they were not comparable i have owned a 4-cyl fwd car (shadow) it was a 5-speed and at 16 didnt seem to be slow until i did race it that was my first encounter with a 5.0 the srt engine does perform well add the light car and that equals good performance in the end the performance of ANY vehicle depends on power to weight no matter how many stickers you put on it put a turbo on the ws6 and try the race again and if you want respect then you are in the wrong hobby/sport we car guys no matter what brand hold our brand up high above the rest

So in other words, there's no way I or anyone can conduct a civil and or mature discussion with you. Understood, I'll stop trying now.

Your car > The Universe

[RandomOmen]

^ Right now, what do you want? Gas mileage isn't going to be incredibly different between the two. I know when people lean theirs out a bit (SRT-4's run pig rich from the factory), it's typical to get 24 or so around town and 30-32 on the highway.

But aside from that, they're obviously two VERY different platforms. Can you live with FWD? Do you need the 4 doors? Do you prefer N/A or Turbo? All those questions, and more (insurance would be another) can only answer the question of "which should I keep".

As for the outcome of your race...an SRT-4 stock (04-05) will dyno around 225-230whp. With ONLY Stage 1 on an '03 SRT-4, you're essentially a stock 04-05 SRT-4 pushing ~230whp. In my experience and opinion, if the SRT-4 hangs until the top of third gear, that sounds possible. The LS1 should still pull on it at a healthy rate. Check out the video section over on srtforums.com, or look some up on Youtube, Streetfire and so forth. At this point, that's your best bet as far as getting a straight, unfiltered answer.

Thank you for the advice on streetfire and youtube! I never would have thought of that.

I completely disagree with you on the Stage 1 '03 = Stock '05. Stage 1 for both cars are produce the same performance result peak and under the curve. srtforums.com has plenty of dyno's out there for you to find if you'd like to verify that. The only real difference between the years on the staged kits is that there's more work for the Stage 1 on the '03 since you must replace the fuel injectors along with the PCM. The only major difference between the '03 and '04-'05s is the addition of the Quaiffe LSD (and the slightly larger fuel injectors if you count that.) Well, and different clutch assemblies. That being said, and to be clear, a Stage 1 '03 is faster than a stock '04-'05. A stock '03 is mildly slower than the stock '04-'05s due to their fuel injectors being the same size as the Stage 1 iinjectors for the '93 cars.

Also, for fuel milage.. I get about 30mpg on the HWY with the SRT-4. 26 for the WS6. But street.... hehe... about 24-25mpg for the srt-4... and 15-19 for the WS6.

I'm all for keeping my WS6. It looks nicer, turns a lot of heads when it's clean, sounds mean, and has huge performance potential. The only thing that sucks is it appears I let the anti-SRT-4 bias actually persuade me into thinking a Stage 1 SRT-4 can't hang with a stock '01-'02 from a roll during 2nd-3rd gears.

Btw, insurance on my SRT-4 is actually more expensive than the WS6. I chalk that up to mommies and daddies buying their 16+ year olds the nice neon without realizing what the hell it was. Maybe I'm wrong there, though.

[4TEHW]

Thank you for the advice on streetfire and youtube! I never would have thought of that.

I completely disagree with you on the Stage 1 '03 = Stock '05. Stage 1 for both cars are produce the same performance result peak and under the curve. srtforums.com has plenty of dyno's out there for you to find if you'd like to verify that. The only real difference between the years on the staged kits is that there's more work for the Stage 1 on the '03 since you must replace the fuel injectors along with the PCM. The only major difference between the '03 and '04-'05s is the addition of the Quaiffe LSD (and the slightly larger fuel injectors if you count that.) Well, and different clutch assemblies. That being said, and to be clear, a Stage 1 '03 is faster than a stock '04-'05. A stock '03 is mildly slower than the stock '04-'05s due to their fuel injectors being the same size as the Stage 1 iinjectors for the '93 cars.

Also, for fuel milage.. I get about 30mpg on the HWY with the SRT-4. 26 for the WS6. But street.... hehe... about 24-25mpg for the srt-4... and 15-19 for the WS6.

I'm all for keeping my WS6. It looks nicer, turns a lot of heads when it's clean, sounds mean, and has huge performance potential. The only thing that sucks is it appears I let the anti-SRT-4 bias actually persuade me into thinking a Stage 1 SRT-4 can't hang with a stock '01-'02 from a roll during 2nd-3rd gears.

Btw, insurance on my SRT-4 is actually more expensive than the WS6. I chalk that up to mommies and daddies buying their 16+ year olds the nice neon without realizing what the hell it was. Maybe I'm wrong there, though.

You're absolutely right about the Stage 1 differences, as well as the 04-05 differences. I should have been more clear and thorough in my overview. The biggest point I'm trying to make is, Stage 1 on an '03 won't make it significantly faster than a stock Stage 0 04-05. Slightly, but not a ton (in my opinion). That being said, you can almost compare the two in performance against a WS6.

As for the rest, I hear you. If the insurance is MORE expensive, I'm sure it balances out with the cost of gas between the two. That being said, you're still almost back to square one. You know the WS6 is faster and I'd say handles better stock (don't know the specifics on the WS6 package, but as I understand it involves suspension work)...so it still comes down to what you want and need in a car.

If you check out the Pictures section on the srtforums, you'll see a fair amount of VERY clean and tastefully modified SRT-4's. There are definitely plenty of ricer types who overdress their cars (in my opinion), but that's not all of them. Myself, I debadged mine, put on tint and removed the wing. To the untrained eye, I look like a base Neon. Cops ignore me and ricers ignore me, it's great.

When I have a bit more cash, I'll be lowering it with some much needed suspension mods as well as adding some nice and light rims. What you, I and everyone else on this board considers 'good looking' is, of course, subjective. I like the looks of a well modified SRT-4.

Check out some videos and make your decision. I think that's the safest thing to do. You have two very nice cars either way, both designed differently but both also designed very well.

[tonyjnjz]

haha yah the insurance on my 2003 acura rsx-s was around 100 a mth then i sold it and purchased my lingenfelter 383 z28....near 500 horses....rsx 200 ...insurance company is aware of the mods and has the lpe recept copied and says theyll cover in case of an accident or it being totaled( that remains to be seen..dunno if i belive it) and my insuarance on that car is 57 a mth........unreal huh???? i think so as well..insurance companys have there heads up there asses

[joejenkinsglass]

well i hope you can keep to your word and STOP and my car is not greater than the universe just greater than a neon with any mods wow that makes me sound like an ass haha you know i was thinking if i were to take a skateboard and put a busa engine on it just maybe it would beat my wifes stock 01 ss vert? na i doubt it damn now i sound like a ricer guess ill give up and just be me and just talk about ls1 on ls1.com

[4TEHW]

well i hope you can keep to your word and STOP and my car is not greater than the universe just greater than a neon with any mods wow that makes me sound like an ass haha you know i was thinking if i were to take a skateboard and put a busa engine on it just maybe it would beat my wifes stock 01 ss vert? na i doubt it damn now i sound like a ricer guess ill give up and just be me and just talk about ls1 on ls1.com

You do have my word that I'll stop trying to talk to you about cars. Ignorant people tend to have that affect on me. In the meantime, I'll keep having an actual discussion with the original poster (an LS1 owner, in fact) and try to help him make his decision.

[4TEHW]

OK DICKHEAD this is why he should sell the NEON, b/c it is FRONTWHEEL DRIVE, doesn't have nearly the potential of the ls1, will never have the torque ( which is the whold fun of having a sports car), and the looks, as for RANDOM OMEN, the STOCK ls1 really takes off at the top of fourth gear on up, it is a non-modded smallblock, duh! the srt-4 will beat it off of the line it's a very small, very light car, that's what we have 4.10's and such for. Is that enough logic for you? And some of the guys on here were giving you guys some attitude but look here: 1. ls1 site 2. random omen was being a dick after the first few posts

have a nice fucking day

I am having a pretty nice day, so thanks.

Any hostility I displayed wasn't directed at you or even the board, but to the guy who was rude to begin with. My posts have been fairly stated and are relevant to the OP. As for his attitude and behavior, that's neither my fault nor my problem.

All of your points are valid and true, but what you and others are failing to see is that there are pros and cons for BOTH vehicles in this scenario. Because of the inability to reconogize that (brand loyalty, extreme bias, whatever) we apparently can't have a normal conversation. It's been reduced to bashing, yelling, name calling and so forth.

Whether you like it or not, SRT-4's can be made fast. They're economy four door, FWD, 4 cylinder sports cars. That's what they were designed to be, and they are the best at it for their price range and target market. Am I or have I ever said an SRT-4 is BETTER than an LS1 powered car? No. But perhaps it's because I haven't said an LS1 car is better than an SRT-4. That seems to be the real issue you have with me here.

I don't have problems with specific people, I have problems with ignorance, blind bias and unfounded rude behavior.

[4TEHW]

you wanna talk about ignorant people? how about you? sure most people on here are being agressive and brash but that really doesn't mean that we don't know what we're talking about. You remind me of one of those kids that were always a little bit smaller that everyone else and when they got picked on (maybe for buying a gay looking car) they would cry and just say "well *sniff* my mommy says you're ignorant and I'll be the prettiest girl at the prom" get the hell off of ls1.com, in fact just get off of the internet ya jerk off

Point out one thing I've said that makes me ignorant? I may be ignorant of who or how you really are in the grand scheme of things, but all I have to act on is your words in this thread. If you honestly want to sit here and say there's no reason for any person on this earth to want an SRT-4 over an LS1, I don't need to be talking to you. And so far, that's what I'm hearing. Simply because I own an SRT-4 (and not an LS1 powered car)...and I'm sticking up for BOTH cars, saying the decision really comes down to each persons' unique situation, giving both cars credit where it's due, I'm the ignorant one who should get off the internet?

Sorry, I forgot every forum is for eThuggin'. I should get back to stroking my own ego, trying to grow my ePeen.

[joejenkinsglass]

well i guess i should have said that was sarcasm most people on here have agreed the srt4 is a performance car and if you look back to the start of this thread we were not rude and to be totally honest the only reason for the so called bashing is its fun case and point my best friend of over 15 yrs is a die hard mustang fan we bash each others cars but we have both worked on each others cars like i said before its all part of the car hobby/sport just dont get your feelings hurt so take this thread for what it is and remember this site is 99% opinion maybe we will mature one day but i doubt it that would mean we would also stop doing burnouts with street tires (pointless but fun) i am interested in your dyno numbers when you get it tuned

[4TEHW]

well i guess i should have said that was sarcasm most people on here have agreed the srt4 is a performance car and if you look back to the start of this thread we were not rude and to be totally honest the only reason for the so called bashing is its fun case and point my best friend of over 15 yrs is a die hard mustang fan we bash each others cars but we have both worked on each others cars like i said before its all part of the car hobby/sport just dont get your feelings hurt so take this thread for what it is and remember this site is 99% opinion maybe we will mature one day but i doubt it that would mean we would also stop doing burnouts with street tires (pointless but fun) i am interested in your dyno numbers when you get it tuned

If my feelings were hurt, I probably would have responded in a much more hostile way. If it was sarcasm and I didn't detect it, my apologies. I think the second guy addressing me is the one with hurt feelings.

And...you basically stated my personal 'mantra', so to speak, when it comes to cars. We're all enthusiasts, we all like speed, modifying and having a nice, clean ride. We should also know that ANYTHING can be made fast with money...and that not every platform was created the same or even equal in some regards. I'm not here to bash on anyones' ride, or to get into a flaming war. Just trying to help the OP make a good decision for himself.

[joejenkinsglass]

what was that decison again? i seem to have forgot