Is the 98-02 ws6 one of the best muscle cars ever?

[Firebirdjones]

I voted it to be in the top 10 for a couple reasons.

1. They run 13's right out of the box. (much faster than MANY very respectable muscle cars from the 60's & 70's)
2. They get 25+ mpg. (350 horsepower, and great mileage is worth mentioning)
3. 18* degree cylinder heads that love forced induction and/or camshaft upgrades, and respond much better to modifications than an iron headed(or aluminum for that matter) LT1 or old school 23* degree cylinder heads.
4. They handle very good for what they are, and ride better than old muscle.

I think that's 4 pretty good reasons to get it in my top 10.

All excellent points.....


Just to be fair, as much as I love the 18 degree heads, LS engines weren't the first to use it in a mass production vehicle. AMC mass produced it on their little 390's and 401's.

[jiveass]

That's a scarey browser ya got there..

?????????

[Z28Thunder]

All excellent points.....


Just to be fair, as much as I love the 18 degree heads, LS engines weren't the first to use it in a mass production vehicle. AMC mass produced it on their little 390's and 401's.

390 Scramblers stunned many a driver...

[Smittro]

?????????

lol never mind...

[Firebirdjones]

390 Scramblers stunned many a driver...

Yep, runnin little son-of-a-guns. Love the little AMX's and SC Ramblers (scramblers) and even the "Machine" ran pretty good for it's slightly bigger size. All very under estimated and under apppreciated muscle cars.

[BrntWS6]

I think it's up there in the modern muscle car era. IMO there's not much that comes close to the looks in any era of a slammed WS6 on a nice set of rims. The classics are cool but for the most part just not for me.

[WS6ADDICT]

I'm 47, sold GM cars for 25 years. Owned all kinds of stuff, wife is on her fourth 5th gen Camaro. We have 2 2002 WS6's and a 99 Mecham. They won't ever build a better looking car. My only whine is how hard it is to work on, engine comp. tight! CAR IS THE BEST LOOKIN THEY MADE!! My 2 cents backed up by the fact I will die owning em!!!!

I owned 5 other 2000 to 2002 T/A's. Wish I coulda kept em all!!

[snaggeltooth]

They are not Muscle cars because they were not sedans .. the GTO, Challenger/Chargers, and CTS-V or more like Muscle cars .. and maybe even the Taurus SHO..

[tatertot91]

They are not Muscle cars because they were not sedans .. the GTO, Challenger/Chargers, and CTS-V or more like Muscle cars .. and maybe even the Taurus SHO..

This doesn't make sense to me

[Firebirdjones]

I've never heard that a sedan was a necessary feature for a muscle car before. That's gotta be a new one on me.

When you go back as far as the term "muscle car" goes,,,everyone does realize what the term "sedan" means,,,,right? Because the original meaning seems to have changed over recent years, so for old folk like me it's really not used to describe the same thing anymore. With that said,,,and knowing what the real term was originally used for,,,,I don't even know if they make a "TRUE" sedan of anything anymore, and haven't for many many years.

Only new style car I've seen that resembles the true meaning of sedan would be a pickup truck I can't think of anything else out there with a real post around the door windows.

[Firebirdjones]

I'm 47, sold GM cars for 25 years. Owned all kinds of stuff, wife is on her fourth 5th gen Camaro. We have 2 2002 WS6's and a 99 Mecham. They won't ever build a better looking car. My only whine is how hard it is to work on, engine comp. tight! CAR IS THE BEST LOOKIN THEY MADE!! My 2 cents backed up by the fact I will die owning em!!!!

I owned 5 other 2000 to 2002 T/A's. Wish I coulda kept em all!!

Since you are only going back 25 years,,,I can tend to agree with your idea of best looking car, simply because there hasn't been a whole lot made that looks exciting going back only 25 years. The term "muscle car" goes back much futher than that though.

[Smittro]

I've never heard that a sedan was a necessary feature for a muscle car before. That's gotta be a new one on me.

When you go back as far as the term "muscle car" goes,,,everyone does realize what the term "sedan" means,,,,right? Because the original meaning seems to have changed over recent years, so for old folk like me it's really not used to describe the same thing anymore. With that said,,,and knowing what the real term was originally used for,,,,I don't even know if they make a "TRUE" sedan of anything anymore, and haven't for many many years.

Only new style car I've seen that resembles the true meaning of sedan would be a pickup truck I can't think of anything else out there with a real post around the door windows.

that's how I knew them too..

[Firebirdjones]

that's how I knew them too..

Thanks Smittro, now I don't feel alone on here....

[Z28Thunder]

Since you are only going back 25 years,,,I can tend to agree with your idea of best looking car, simply because there hasn't been a whole lot made that looks exciting going back only 25 years. The term "muscle car" goes back much futher than that though.

Yeah if I take it back to the first 2nd gens 70 1/2 to 73... That is the best year IMO and I am talking the Camaro not the T/A. My favorite T/A is the 78 Smokey and Bandit T/A. But they were way way down on power then what 180 hp from the 400 (L78).

[blackSS01]

I voted "hell no" and then saw the poll results

[Firebirdjones]

Yeah if I take it back to the first 2nd gens 70 1/2 to 73... That is the best year IMO and I am talking the Camaro not the T/A. My favorite T/A is the 78 Smokey and Bandit T/A. But they were way way down on power then what 180 hp from the 400 (L78).

All excellent choices, very hard to pick just one. I'm partial to the 69's and the 70, I have one of each. I like the 1st gens and the body style change in 70 was also sexy, just too hard to choose in either a bird or a camaro for me. Late 70's were good years for the TA's too. Just alot of good stuff coming out of Detroit.

[Too Fast]

Yeah if I take it back to the first 2nd gens 70 1/2 to 73... That is the best year IMO and I am talking the Camaro not the T/A. My favorite T/A is the 78 Smokey and Bandit T/A. But they were way way down on power then what 180 hp from the 400 (L78).

Olds 403 engines were 185 HP. The Pontiac 400 was rated 220, with a 4-speed. Circa 1978-9.

Put some headers on it, some nice true duals to loose the 15HP restrictive pellet converter, and that's an easy 50 HP upgrade. Of course, not as good as today's LS1, but all that torque was available right off idle, making it seem even stronger. Those 6X heads were respectable for the day.

[Firebirdjones]

The Pontiac 400 was rated 220, with a 4-speed. Circa 1978-9.

That would be optional 400 code W72, easy to spot as they came with chrome valve covers, the lower HP version had painted covers and was 180 hp and coded L78 as mentioned. They also were the only engine you could order a 4 speed with. If you find a 4 speed and chrome valve covers, you know you are looking at the 220 hp 400 which was top of the line for that time frame. California built/sold cars dictated the 403 engines.
Also the W72 came standard with 3.23 gears,,,Order WS6 (see the connection?? ) and you also got rear disc brakes which was somewhat new at that time, as well as larger sway bars..

You are right Steve, a little tweaking and they were decent runners. Car and driver got high 14's out of a stocker back in the day. Wouldn't take much to run some 13's.

Darn things are starting to grab some money too, nice low mile examples are grabbing high teens $$ and low $20's for the 220 hp models.

[Zinergy]

Olds 403 engines were 185 HP. The Pontiac 400 was rated 220, with a 4-speed. Circa 1978-9.

Put some headers on it, some nice true duals to loose the 15HP restrictive pellet converter, and that's an easy 50 HP upgrade. Of course, not as good as today's LS1, but all that torque was available right off idle, making it seem even stronger. Those 6X heads were respectable for the day.

That is only because of all the new restrictions on engines go back to the 60s or very early 70s and many muscle cars were making more than the 350hp our ls1 cars came with.

The LT1 from 1970 made 370hp and was a 5.7 liter and many say it was underrated and made close to 390hp, which by todays ratings would be 350ishhp and went to close to the same redline. The only thing that got better with our engines is MPGs.

[wicked1]

A sedan has 33 or more cubic feet of interior space. A coupe has less. What he's refering to is they use to claim a muscle car was a full (mid) size car with a complete rear seat. A Challenger,also on his list of muscle cars, falls into the same category that the Mustang and Firebird did. They called them pony cars because the rear seat area was very small. There is no 100% correct definition of a muscle car just like theres no 100% correct definition of metal music. Myself, I always went by the power to weight ratio and the f-bodys dont lack in power.