QUESTION stock alum driveshaft

**35th-ANV-SS** · 09-14-2010, 08:31 AM

I just saw a post on here within the last week concerning someone who twisted a OEM AL DS. Forgot who it was though.

I, like Jeff, have the Precision Shaft Technology (PST) drive shaft.

**Too Fast** · 09-14-2010, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

It is larger in diameter -- not sure about the wall thickness, but it certainly feels more substantial than the stock driveshaft. I think it was right around $400.00. Also, it upgrades you to 1350 style u-joints -- so if you are still running the stock 10 bolt, you will need an adapter u-joint in the rear.

Seems I've heard that you can get a carbon fiber DS for around $400. Correct me if I'm wrong, tho. And I believe it would be even lighter than an aluminum DS.

Originally Posted by camaross1

geezer racing, i wasnt calling him old geezer, dont get offended please, i dont want to piss off anyone, lifes to short but you are older than me, ha ha

Ha ha back atcha. I knew what you meant, it was just funny on the first read. I'm not too far back from you all 50+ year olds anyway.

**Mr. Luos** · 09-14-2010, 10:08 AM

Replaced before I could turn it into a pretzel.

Last price check on a CF shaft was $800. Not worth it in my opinion over the PST.

**35th-ANV-SS** · 09-14-2010, 10:57 AM

Yeah I concur, CF DS is about double that of the PST.

**67CamaroRSSS** · 09-14-2010, 11:56 AM

Geezer here: No offense taken.

I think you're only the 2nd or 3rd person that's noticed that

FWIW, I've been using a stock Al DS (swapped from the steel - car was originally a 2.73 rear gear- to Al cuz it's lighter) for 3 years now without incident. I'm a stalled A4 so even with MT ET Street DR's it's probably not that much of a shock.

**Too Fast** · 09-15-2010, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. Luos

Replaced before I could turn it into a pretzel.

Last price check on a CF shaft was $800. Not worth it in my opinion over the PST.

Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS

Yeah I concur, CF DS is about double that of the PST.

Oh, yeah, the only thing that would be cool is bragging rights for that price.

**35th-ANV-SS** · 09-15-2010, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by Too Fast

Oh, yeah, the only thing that would be cool is bragging rights for that price.

Well, there are some benefits to having a CF DS, but I really don't know if the price difference justifies it.

Obviously they are lighter, stronger, and safer. Due to being lighter, there is less rotational mass which will cause less drive-train vibration. In the event it does break, it won't break apart and come through the floorboard in the same fashion as that of an AL or steel one will. It will be fibers tearing or shredding apart as opposed to metal shrapnel.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-15-2010, 07:34 AM

There are also other advantages in my eyes. There are reasons I don't care for the aluminum driveshafts, even the upgraded high HP aluminum shafts.
In order to get the aluminum up to those standards they have to increase the diameter to the point it causes clearance issues. On a 4th gen it's clearance in that area is at a premium since you have a torque arm on one side of the shaft, and the exhaust running down the other side. If you run a decent sized I-pipe you run into issues.
I've installed these aluminum shafts in customer cars before, and they claim 1,000 HP and what not. Well sure but the damn thing is 4-4 1/2 inches in diameter. Not to mention they increase the wall thickness. It ends up being twice as heavy as the stock aluminum shaft you pulled out.

For these reasons I tend to avoid the aluminum shafts all together. My personal preference is Chrome Molly. Lighter than steel and extremely strong while still keeping a reasonable diameter. If I had to make a second choice it would be carbon fiber. Don't really care about the price difference.
If money was a real concern and you are really on the cheap your best bet would be to remove the factory aluminum shafts and install a factory steel shaft. You sacrafice a little bit of weight but that sure is better than lunching an aluminum shaft and potentially tearing up other stuff. Besides that a typical 11 second street car isn't going to notice the differences in minimal driveshaft weight.

**35th-ANV-SS** · 09-15-2010, 08:23 AM

The PST aluminum DS rated at 1200HP is only 3.5" in diameter (1/2" larger in OD than the stock one).

I know what you are saying though...

**Too Fast** · 09-15-2010, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS

Well, there are some benefits to having a CF DS, but I really don't know if the price difference justifies it.

Obviously they are lighter, stronger, and safer. Due to being lighter, there is less rotational mass which will cause less drive-train vibration. In the event it does break, it won't break apart and come through the floorboard in the same fashion as that of an AL or steel one will. It will be fibers tearing or shredding apart as opposed to metal shrapnel.

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

There are also other advantages in my eyes. There are reasons I don't care for the aluminum driveshafts, even the upgraded high HP aluminum shafts.
In order to get the aluminum up to those standards they have to increase the diameter to the point it causes clearance issues. On a 4th gen it's clearance in that area is at a premium since you have a torque arm on one side of the shaft, and the exhaust running down the other side. If you run a decent sized I-pipe you run into issues.
I've installed these aluminum shafts in customer cars before, and they claim 1,000 HP and what not. Well sure but the damn thing is 4-4 1/2 inches in diameter. Not to mention they increase the wall thickness. It ends up being twice as heavy as the stock aluminum shaft you pulled out.

For these reasons I tend to avoid the aluminum shafts all together. My personal preference is Chrome Molly. Lighter than steel and extremely strong while still keeping a reasonable diameter. If I had to make a second choice it would be carbon fiber. Don't really care about the price difference.
If money was a real concern and you are really on the cheap your best bet would be to remove the factory aluminum shafts and install a factory steel shaft. You sacrafice a little bit of weight but that sure is better than lunching an aluminum shaft and potentially tearing up other stuff. Besides that a typical 11 second street car isn't going to notice the differences in minimal driveshaft weight.

Some good points here. As you all know, and some don't, anything that reduces rotational inertia frees that HP to get to the pavement. I remember a few threads here years ago about lighter flywheels, driveshafts, wheels, making more HP. Had to set them straight, informing them that the HP was already there, it was just soaked up by the heavy rotating masses.

HP Pontiac a few years ago tested a lighter, dual clutch set/aluminum flywheel ( think it was an aluminum, maybe it was something else) set-up for an LS1 Trans Am, they were mostly just seeing if the pedal effort/engagement was an improvement. It was, and they tested it at the dyno and found about 12 more RWHP, as a bonus.

**67CamaroRSSS** · 09-15-2010, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Too Fast

Some good points here. As you all know, and some don't, anything that reduces rotational inertia frees that HP to get to the pavement. I remember a few threads here years ago about lighter flywheels, driveshafts, wheels, making more HP. Had to set them straight, informing them that the HP was already there, it was just soaked up by the heavy rotating masses.

HP Pontiac a few years ago tested a lighter, dual clutch set/aluminum flywheel ( think it was an aluminum, maybe it was something else) set-up for an LS1 Trans Am, they were mostly just seeing if the pedal effort/engagement was an improvement. It was, and they tested it at the dyno and found about 12 more RWHP, as a bonus.

The difference between the steel and beer can DS was .03 sec and ~.15 mph in the quarter for me. I also felt that the engine spun up a bit faster. That might have been in my head though. Not much but every little bit helps.

**Mr. Luos** · 09-15-2010, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

The difference between the steel and beer can DS was .03 sec and ~.15 mph in the quarter for me. I also felt that the engine spun up a bit faster. That might have been in my head though. Not much but every little bit helps.

Stocker = 531
Steelie = 528

Could have been anything seeing as how they were different days...likely different gas (still premium, just different places)....etc...

**67CamaroRSSS** · 09-15-2010, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Luos

Stocker = 531
Steelie = 528

Could have been anything seeing as how they were different days...likely different gas (still premium, just different places)....etc...

I did top off with 100 octane that night

And I did run a personal best...

This was before the stall and I ran a 13.09 @ 108+. I sooooooo wanted a sub 13 timeslip before I did the stall. After the stall it was 12.5X (still at ~108) all day long...

**Firebirdjones** · 09-16-2010, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

I did top off with 100 octane that night

And I did run a personal best...

This was before the stall and I ran a 13.09 @ 108+. I sooooooo wanted a sub 13 timeslip before I did the stall. After the stall it was 12.5X (still at ~108) all day long...

Where did you find 100 unleaded? I know the track sells it.

**67CamaroRSSS** · 09-16-2010, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Where did you find 100 unleaded? I know the track sells it.

The Love's on the otherside of the 10 (turn left instead of going to Firebird's track) has it along with 108 leaded. Those pumps as well as the water and air are on the west side of their parking lot.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-17-2010, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

The Love's on the otherside of the 10 (turn left instead of going to Firebird's track) has it along with 108 leaded. Those pumps as well as the water and air are on the west side of their parking lot.

Interesting. I stopped at alot of Love's on the way out here from Ohio on I-40 to gas up the truck. They always had Subway sandwiches

I never paid any attention to an high test pumps. I'll have to look closer next time,,,thanks.

**67CamaroRSSS** · 09-17-2010, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Interesting. I stopped at alot of Love's on the way out here from Ohio on I-40 to gas up the truck. They always had Subway sandwiches

I never paid any attention to an high test pumps. I'll have to look closer next time,,,thanks.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that that particular Love's has the 100 unleaded and 108 (I think they have 118 too) pumps due to their proximity to the track.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-17-2010, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that that particular Love's has the 100 unleaded and 108 (I think they have 118 too) pumps due to their proximity to the track.

And I'll bet you are right, since that's usually how it works. I wonder if the new dragstrip up here will tempt the local stations to carry high test,,,hmmm

**camaross1** · 09-18-2010, 03:03 AM

SUNOCO sell 100 plus 110, but the 110 is leaded not unleaded, the 100 is for street use, here in chesapeake, va. indian river rd.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-18-2010, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by camaross1

SUNOCO sell 100 plus 110, but the 110 is leaded not unleaded, the 100 is for street use, here in chesapeake, va. indian river rd.

That's what I loved about living in Ohio, Sunoco stations on every corner with high test. Although they were starting to get rid of their 94 as time went on.

Out here in AZ we are forced to run piss poor California quality 91 octane gas. I haven't seen a Sunoco station anywhere out here, as a matter of fact they seemed to dissappear after I crossed the Mississippi. They are more popular back East I guess.