Bruce Lee vs Frank Dux

[blackSS01]

Since the majority said screw the UFC guys and most love/like Bruce Lee. How do you think this bad boy would stack up against him. I understand some of Dux background has been challenged and said he was a fake but IMHO I highly doubt it due to him having some types of proof. For those who don't know much about him, here is a little info. I won't bother with Bruce Lee since most of his stuff has been published in the last thread.


From 1975 to 1980 Frank W. Dux fought 329 matches.
He retired undefeated as the World Heavy Weight
Full Contact Kumite Champion.

Mr. Dux still holds four world records:

Fastest Knockout - 3.2 seconds
Fastest Punch with a Knockout - .12 seconds
Fastest Kick with a Knockout - 72 mph
Most Consecutive Knockouts in a Single Tournament - 56


329-0 Quite impressive if you ask me.

[blackSS01]

The movie Bloodsport with Van Damme was based off of him if that helps anyone

[JwMonE99]

yea I seen Bloodsport and I read a little bit about him here and there.
I honesty think it would be a good match up between him and Bruce.
If he went into movies I think he could of been just as popular as Lee's

I also still think both Lee and Dux can beat down all the UFC champions.

[BrntWS6]

Isn't Dux still alive in his 50's? Why don't you guys petition Dana White to have him fight Randy Couture and see how he does. I'd feel a beat down coming for Dux.

[blackSS01]

I still bet he would still kill the UFC guys at his age. He trains in Ninjutsu which when it boils down to it, means to kill and kill well. Ninjutsu has been modded by him and is not legal in the UFC if I am correct due to the massive damage someone with that knowledge would do to a UFC fighter

[BrntWS6]

You are correct...killing people is not legal in the UFC. LOL

[Schmalgar]

I've read a few articles that suggest that Frank Dux is basically a liar and hasn't done most of what he has claimed. Have no idea of the truth behind these articles, but there are a few turning up lately. Bruce Lee on the other hand is universally regarded as a true innovator and all around bad-ass...

[BrntWS6]

I've read a few articles that suggest that Frank Dux is basically a liar and hasn't done most of what he has claimed. Have no idea of the truth behind these articles, but there are a few turning up lately. Bruce Lee on the other hand is universally regarded as a true innovator and all around bad-ass...

I've read the same, a lot of speculation to his claims. He almost never even gives interviews.

[big hammer]

lol @ the fanbois

[blackSS01]

I googled it and instantly found sites not run by Dux that has copies of some of his acievements (spell?) Could post links but I'm not really worried about his cred since the Kumate said he was legit and thats where all his records come from. Full contact no gloves, and happened every 5 years. I think it would be a good battle between the two. Its hard to say who would win between the two mentioned above. Maybe Lee but not by much

[blackSS01]

You are correct...killing people is not legal in the UFC. LOL

I agree

[310stanger]

lets end this once and for all Bruce Lee> everyone.

[blackSS01]

lets end this once and for all Bruce Lee> everyone.

Can't say that. There are people in this worlds time that have been able to beat Lee. Maybe not at the same period of time but there has to have been in some country in our human exsistance. "There is always someone bigger and better"

[Murder after Midnight]

lets end this once and for all Bruce Lee> everyone.

+1 i agree

[blackSS01]

Someone recarnate Lee so we can do this shit and end all the speculation

[Murder after Midnight]

Can't say that. There are people in this worlds time that have been able to beat Lee. Maybe not at the same period of time but there has to have been in some country in our human exsistance. "There is always someone bigger and better"

who matt hughes?

[blackSS01]

who matt hughes?

Now your just being silly, Matt Hughes is good but not even close to Lee's ability

[blackSS01]

Before all these threads end up locked, I am just seeing opinions on who would win. Obviously its all opinion when it comes to this sort of thing due to many factors that I'm not going to state. I don't know who I would pick between the two. If Frank Dux wouldn't win, then he would put up a better fight then anyone else mentioned in any other thread. Some things about him may have been fabbed but his records have been proven. He is a bad, bad man for sure Lee was insane in every aspect of his career

[blackSS01]

WARNING EXTREMELY LONG


I have to atrongly disagree with the statement Frank Dux is a fraud.

I have spent several years researching his b.g. for an upcoming book and documentary. His being a fraud would be a better story or at least I thought so. That was until I discovered journalists reporting he is a fraud are the one’s not credible, like an LA Times reporter is guilty of fabrication of evidence. His so called experts and witnesses all turns out to be Dux business competitors or criminals whose illicit activities led to their apprehention and conviction, thanks to Dux.

For those truly interested in the verified substantive facts read the following abbreviated and biography that administrators in wikipedia have been deleting for years now. In doing my research I submitted verified substantive facts - only to watch it arbitrarily deleted under posturing abnd pretenses, like citation needed when it is given, facts corroborated by court and government records.

Wikipedia is founded by Jimmy Wales who also owns and operates Bullshido that benefits from keeping the Dux controversy going… bet you didn’t know that?

THE CENSORED ABBREVIATED BIOGRAPHY OF FRANK DUX (note: footnotes are not enabled to be posted)

Frank William Dux (pronounced “dukes”) is born in Toronto, Canada, in 1956, and immigrated to the United States in 1963 the son of Holocaust survivors. While he grew up impoverished in the California San Fernando Valley, Frank Dux is now based out of Seattle, Washington , a prominent international business entrepreneur and spokesperson that visibly interacts with world leaders and captains of industry. Comparatively, akin to his mentor, FBI/CIA operative turned Howard Hughes “alter ego,” Robert Aimes Maheu Perhaps, attributable to Mr. Dux similarly extraordinary experiences as uncovered with his autobiography, The Secret Man, HarperCollins, 1996.

Philanthropic accomplishments include being amongst the founders working with law enforcement and board of education members to identify and institute after school programs for special needs and at risk children .

Esteemed members of the International Martial Art and Sports Community (i.e. NTSA, USA Martial Art Hall of Fame, California Youth Karate Association, KidSport America, etc.) sponsor THE FRANK DUX FELLOWSHIP AWARD.

The recipient selection criteria is judged and based upon an individual’s sacrifices made in helping others and/or overcoming adversity by which to inspire and lead others in service to their country, industry, sport and community, as achieved by “Living Legend” Frank Dux. The USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame (est. 1976) warrants this award is “The Ultimate Stamp of Excellence in the Martial Arts” .

Similar to how Harvard business school graduates apply Sun Tzu to Wall Street Frank Dux distinguished himself by having transformed and transcended his brand of martial art strategy and tactics DUX FASST™ into innovative business stratagem leading to inventing patentable business financing and revenue generating infrastructure technologies . Frank Dux stated business philosophy and goal is implementing and championing financially sustainable solutions to social problems.

For instance, his saving the children of Africa and Asia by strategically aligning business and political leaders in backing an internationally proposed Water Plan directing technological investment and research in Solar and Wind dehumidifiers. To reduce toxic CO2 in the environment the plan calls for stimulating the anaerobic bacteria discovered in the Barnett Shale. The result is the very first circle of life between the petroleum world and our own ecosystem producing oxygen and natural gas while simultaneously reducing poisonous green house gasses Shared sustainable solutions “go green” philosophical proponents and causal allies include former Presidential candidates New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson and former Vice President Al Gore, Harvard’s President, Drew Gilpin Faust , T. Boone Pickens, Chris Sanders/SANCO and Robert Plarr, etc.
Frank Dux is originally made renowned by the 1988 Canon International theatrically released and syndicated motion picture “Based upon true events in the life of Frank Dux” entitled: Bloodsport: . The film debut Jean Claude Van Damme who portrays Frank Dux trained in the secret art of the Ninja who honors his “Shidoshi” in the legendary “Kumite” by winning it all and defeating his opponents in world record time .

= = MARTIAL ART HALL OF FAME “LIVING LEGEND” = =

The Frank Dux story is described as the “Ultimate Movie of the Ultimate Martial Art Contest” given the SUBSTANTIVE FACT when first featured in the November 1980 issue of Black Belt magazine Frank Dux became the first publicly acknowledged and independently verified western born and trained Martial Artist to have participated and championed the legendary elite Asian no-holds-barred/mixed martial art event, more popularly called “The Kumite”.

Kumite (組手) in Japanese means sparring.

While not a publicity seeking organization contrary to popular myth “The Kumite” organizers, in 1980, the International Fighting Arts Association (IFAA) is far from secret . It is an affiliate/spin off of The Black Dragon Society (Kyūjitai; 黑龍會; Shinjitai: 黒龍会 kokuryūkai) established, in 1901, in China, a formerly prominent paramilitary, ultra-nationalist right-wing group in Japan

The Kumite championship and Black Belt magazine article is corroborated by fight footage , photographs inset in the article as well as prominent internationally recognized and respected martial art masters and eyewitnesses, several appearing in a 2002 documentary . Culminating in Frank Dux being coined the “Ultimate Fight Champion” from which the Mixed Martial Art Ultimate Fight Championship aficionado’s and its founders, like ten time undisputed Brazilian Jujitsu World Champion, Higan Machado, attribute the league owes its inspiration and possibly name , to which Frank Dux is also titled: “The Godfather of Mixed Martial Arts” and whose unprecedented 16 world records and titles holds him out to be referred to as the “Babe Ruth of Martial Arts” by Martial Art magazines and Martial Art Halls of Fame .

Mixed Martial Arts and Bloodsport’s wide appeal observably placed Frank Dux at the forefront of pop culture with his very name incorporated into urban slang:

[blackSS01]

To Be Frank Duxed is:

1. Similar to being knocked out in world record fashion by swift Frank Dux roundhouse kick to the head; 2. It can apply to, quick losses in gambling, fighting, sports games, or rejection to name a few; 3. A party who passes out right after a single shot of tequila; 4. It can also be used in the verb form: “Frank Duxing It,” in which the losing/rejection is pre meditated - usage example: “John really got Frank Duxed the other night, he went in all in at poker on the 1st hand and lost with a pair of twos” .
Notably, Frank Dux is inducted into numerous International Sokeship Councils and Martial Art Halls of Fame as a “Living Legend” . Most endorse the common belief Frank Dux initiated the fashion trend of mixed martial art fighters competing in embroidered bicycle shorts or board shorts as depicted on screen, in 1988, and made globally popular through the film Bloodsport. The reason for the wardrobe decision initiating the trend is arguably to show off Van Damme’s impressive physique but this is overshadowed by the fact, in 1975, Frank Dux defied Martial Art tradition to become renowned for fighting in a Full Contact Kumite event in embroidered bicycle/board shorts rather than customary martial art uniform, inspiring others to follow suit.
What makes this fashion statement historically significant and attributable to Frank Dux is his fighting in shorts is not motivated by aesthetics or functionality but was committed as his form of visible protest, weary of the politicking associated with one wearing an indigenous martial art uniform and then being subjected to hearing if one prevailed or were defeated “This style is better than style rhetoric;” Dux advocating “The true spirit the Kumite (No-holds-barred/Mixed Martial Arts) is founded upon the observable fact that victory is not determined by any one particular martial art style but by the execution of it by the participant.”
Thus, Frank Dux played a pivotal role in breaking down centuries of prejudice since until the 1980 publicizing of Dux rein as IFAA/Kokuruykai undefeated World Champion anyone not Asian and, in terms of Japanese martial arts not “Koryū” (古流) (traditional Japanese martial art established prior to Meiji Restoration), is generally thought of as being, “inferior.”
During his rein as Champion, Frank Dux was nicknamed by the Chinese audience “Fa Ma” (trans. “The Flying Horse”) given his incredible hang time and defining trait of making use of one of any number of powerful jumping kicks by which to finish off his opponents as they were falling, Dux trademark . The high flying kicks were adapted for Bloodsport by Jean Claude Van Damme who is trained for the role and choreographed by Frank Dux Frank Dux figuratively launching Van Dammes film career and returning to rely upon Dux talent and expertise in similar thematic films, Lionheart and The Quest

= = THE SECRET MAN AKA FRANK DUX = =
In 1975, Frank Dux entered military service in the United States Marine Corps and in 1999, Frank Dux v. Robert Brown, Alexander McColl, Larry Baily and Soldier Of Fortune Magazine, Case No: BC198883, Superior Court Of California, Los Angeles County, through a case of Libel and Slander, it becomes a matter of public record Frank Dux is discharged an intelligence specialist .

Exhibits and testimony made under penalty of perjury support the martial art legend engaged in the systematic practice referred to as “sheep-dipping” whereby, military personnel are recruited and discharged from active military service in order to perform non-attributable/covert actions who then are repatriated back in uniform, typically, at a promoted rank or are cut lose and whose actions are systematically denied by the government but yet, secretly serve as “independent contractors/volunteers” as is the best known case with the legendary, Flying Tigers .

Notwithstanding, in establishing his bona fides by way of exposing the fabrication/sanitizing of his military service records, as warranted in his book, The Secret Man, obtained and relied upon by defendants, under FOIA, the presiding judge rules against Frank Dux. He is prevented from prevailing not due to any inability to prove beyond any reasonable doubt what the defendants were reporting is false and misleading but because he failed to meet the extremely high burden of proof on public figures requiring proof of actual malice (what is inside a person’s mind) as determined under case law decision of Times vs. Sullivan United States Supreme Court, March 9, 1964 (376 U.S. 254).and Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., 418 U.S. 323 (1974) .

Speculation exist the court’s written decision is in actuality meant to mask the real reason which is a matter of national security or concealment of ongoing or past political corruption. In light of the fact, ABC Primetime News segment on Frank Dux is suppressed by sources outside of ABC Network, akin to the suppression of the CBS 60 Minutes segment expose on Tobacco Industry, made renowned by the Michael Mann film starring Russell Crow, “The Insider” .

The substantive fact is the publication of Frank Dux book The Secret Man, HarperCollins, 1996, transformed the martial art legend into a government whistleblower. In spite of the anticipated politically motivated attacks aimed at challenging his veracity by him, as had occurred with Lt. Colonel Herbert, Soldier, Frank Dux dared to corroborate Herbert expose of war crimes committed under the color of authority as well as shed light on violations of the Boland and Logan Amendments and the perpetuation of an elaborate “con” surrounding the black market theft and sale of alleged weapons of mass destruction headed for the military regime of Saddam Hussein.

Many of the Dux books claims are, uncharacteristically, denied publicly by the CIA, in 1996 . This behavior had not occurred since the CIA publicly issued a statement of denial regarding its tangential ties to G. Gordon Liddy that resulted in Watergate debacle as well as the denial of its tangential ties to Eugene Hasenfus that resulted in Iran Contra Hearings. In the shadow of the Bush administration with the CIA justifying and propagating the invasion of Iraq, in 2003, Dux claims are eventually vindicated, proven true, when the CIA and Bush administration are exposed to have knowingly made 935 related false claims by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism

In the SpecWar community Frank Dux is acknowledged as one of the great innovators of modern strategy and tactics, a source contributor in establishing how paramilitary and covert operations are planned and conducted by elite law enforcement and special warfare military units, world-wide, today . Corroborated by the fact Frank Dux is cited as source contributor to notable Special Warfare manuals, including the prominent United States Navy SEAL CFC SPECWAR Manual: K-431-0097 embraced and utilized by Special Forces, globally as well as Frank Dux having served as adjunct faculty member of the Department of Defense funded Multi-jurisdictional Counter Drug Task Force, Criminal Justice Institute, St. Petersburg, Florida; visibly training SWAT teams and is the instructor of SWAT and defensive tactics instructors of various police departments and anti-terror units, etc.

= = DUX RYU NINJITSU = =

Misconduct of business competitors engaging in trade libel is nothing new to Frank Dux. In the early 1980’s, like many other very closed circle practitioners of Ninjitsu he is a critic of and bares witness to the rise of the rabid commercialization of their traditionally ultra secret martial art and society, with the apparent selling of school franchises via home study courses. Frank Dux became the target of innuendo and criticism in response to his contesting publicly, in 1980, it is not Stephen K. Hayes nor himself as being erroneously reported, but Ronald Duncan of Queens, New York, who is in actuality the first western born martial artist to teach Shinobino-jitsu (popularly known as Ninjitsu the Harvard transliteration adopted by Koga vs. “Ninjutsu” the Oxford transliteration adopted by Iga descendants) in the Untied States . It is Doran Navon a student of Hayes own Grandmaster, Masaaki Hatsumi, who is a Ninjutsu Master in 1973 to be credited according to Dux to be the first westerner to learn and teach the martial art outside of Japan.