Highest legal N/A power for California?

**Black02LS1** · 01-16-2008, 09:00 PM

I have been wanting to do a nice NA setup for my 02 Camaro. I want about 500 whp from an NA LS1 set up. I preferable dont want to do anything to the bottom end. What is the most hp that people have in Cali and still passes smog?

**Firebirdjones** · 01-17-2008, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by Black02LS1

I have been wanting to do a nice NA setup for my 02 Camaro. I want about 500 whp from an NA LS1 set up. I preferable dont want to do anything to the bottom end. What is the most hp that people have in Cali and still passes smog?

500 RWHP with a little 346 naturally asperated and still pass smog???? That would call for close to 600 HP at the flywheel roughly.

Thats a tall order to ask for especially not doing anything to the bottom end on a naturally asperated motor. Even if it were done passing smog would be a completely different issue.

You can't run long tube headers because Cali doesn't allow the converters to be moved from stock location,,,,this relegates you to shorty headers only. Passing the sniffer would be the next hurdle since you are going to need a camshaft with a ton of overlap,,,,

You may get 500 RWHP from 346 cubes naturally asperated,,,,but I don't think it would pass California emmissions.

**Marc 85Z28** · 01-17-2008, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by Black02LS1

I want about 500 whp from an NA LS1 set up... and still passes smog?

Impossible. 400rwhp California smog legal would be impressive.

**Firebirdjones** · 01-17-2008, 08:52 AM

Ya,,,I was just trying to be nice about it,,,lol.

In reality,,,if you want big power numbers on the motor only you need to move to a more car friendly environment

**346DubS6** · 01-17-2008, 09:37 AM

I live in Cali too, the beautiful Bay Area to be specific

and the emissions law here is a barrier for us enthusiast. Im aiming at a respectable 400whp and stay smog legal. Plans are; shorties,true duals, a nice 224/224 cam,pulley, and a real good tune..you guys think that'll put me within my goal and still pass the sniffer??

**Marc 85Z28** · 01-17-2008, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by 346DubS6

I live in Cali too, the beautiful Bay Area to be specific

and the emissions law here is a barrier for us enthusiast. Im aiming at a respectable 400whp and stay smog legal. Plans are; shorties,true duals, a nice 224/224 cam,pulley, and a real good tune..you guys think that'll put me within my goal and still pass the sniffer??

Not likely. With shorty style headers and converters, that 224 cam with all bolt-ons like LS6 intake, lid, ported throttle body, pulley and catback/TDs should be in the area of 370rwhp. You'll more than likely need heads to hit 400+

**346DubS6** · 01-17-2008, 10:44 AM

those LS6 ported heads from Patriot considered "stock" on an LS1 when it comes to emissons time?

**346DubS6** · 01-17-2008, 10:46 AM

sorry for the thread hijack

**Marc 85Z28** · 01-17-2008, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by 346DubS6

those LS6 ported heads from Patriot considered "stock" on an LS1 when it comes to emissons time?

I don't believe they are, but I don't know for sure. AFR makes an emissions legal head (w/CARB numbers) that would put the Patriots to shame, and should make an easy 420rwhp with the above listed combo. AFR is in CA, so I'm sure they of all people would know best how to produce a strong LS1 completely CA legal

**346DubS6** · 01-17-2008, 11:07 AM

niiiice..thanks for the info. I'll definately be looking into AFR

**180ls1** · 01-18-2008, 11:23 PM

you could get over 415 to the wheels with a set of very nasty heads, 228 cam, ported fast 90/90, shortys with true duals, a pulley, and a very very good tune i would bet you could still pass and easily put over 415 to the wheels as long as you still have good rings. but you can not do much more then that. you would need top of the line parts hough.

**Black02LS1** · 01-19-2008, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28

Not likely. With shorty style headers and converters, that 224 cam with all bolt-ons like LS6 intake, lid, ported throttle body, pulley and catback/TDs should be in the area of 370rwhp. You'll more than likely need heads to hit 400+

My friend with an 01 SS made 370 whp with Pacesetter LT's, catback, lid, maf, and freemods, and that was untuned on a stock engine.

**Firebirdjones** · 01-19-2008, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Black02LS1

My friend with an 01 SS made 370 whp with Pacesetter LT's, catback, lid, maf, and freemods, and that was untuned on a stock engine.

Yes, but that setup wouldn't pass california emissions,,,thats really the whole hangup here. With cali emissions involved here this fellow really has his hands tied with what he can do. Only way around it,,,which works in other states,,,,is to register the car as collector, (or something similar) that designates the car as a toy or weekend show vehicle etc.....and purchase a daily driver. This eliminates the car from e-checking in other states.

Not sure if California offers that,,,since my relatives out there no longer play with cars.

**Marc 85Z28** · 01-19-2008, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Black02LS1

My friend with an 01 SS made 370 whp with Pacesetter LT's, catback, lid, maf, and freemods, and that was untuned on a stock engine.

That's about 20-30rwhp higher than any other car with that combo. 370rwhp might be possible with full bolt-ons, and we're talking EVERY bolt-on, and all top dollar stuff with attention paid to detail, with an aggressive tune on a number friendly dyno with an "inaccurate" weather station. And long tubes are legal in CA? News to me...

**Firebirdjones** · 01-19-2008, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28

That's about 20-30rwhp higher than any other car with that combo. 370rwhp might be possible with full bolt-ons, and we're talking EVERY bolt-on, and all top dollar stuff with attention paid to detail, with an aggressive tune on a number friendly dyno with an "inaccurate" weather station. And long tubes are legal in CA? News to me...

Thats why I stated that setup wouldn't pass,,,,I am certain california does not allow the cats to move from there stock locations,,,,which means long tube headers are a no no......

**Frost** · 01-20-2008, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by Black02LS1

My friend with an 01 SS made 370 whp with Pacesetter LT's, catback, lid, maf, and freemods, and that was untuned on a stock engine.

There's no way I'd believe that without a dyno sheet, and then I would still be skeptical. As a matter of fact, it's at LEAST 20rwhp higher than anything I have ever seen anywhere with those mods; and that's after tuning.

**sspeedracer** · 01-20-2008, 08:19 PM

I'm pushing 500 hp and pass the sniffer and visual tests. However I'm using a p1sc to get there.
NA won't happen. It might be close with lots more displacement.

**Firebirdjones** · 01-21-2008, 05:51 AM

That was the first thing that popped in my head originally as it's the only way and easiest way to do it and stay emmissions legal, but for some reason the original poster wanted to stay naturally aspirated,,,,,but I agree,,if still looking for big power numbers, and still able to keep the car very docile and driveable and pass emissions I think a power adder like a procharger is the best way to go in this case...

**99blueZ** · 01-21-2008, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Thats why I stated that setup wouldn't pass,,,,I am certain california does not allow the cats to move from there stock locations,,,,which means long tube headers are a no no......

you are right! Longtube are actually illegal in every state - federal laws about cats in stock location.

**Firebirdjones** · 01-22-2008, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by 99blueZ

you are right! Longtube are actually illegal in every state - federal laws about cats in stock location.

That may be true. But only the areas that have e-checking will be looking for this,,,and some states allow the cats to be moved with long tube headers. Back when South Western Ohio had e-check,,,,there were cars passing all the time with long tubes and cats. I know other states do the same.
California is one of the strictest, and some of the Eastern sea board states are also pretty sticky. Throughout the midwest though,,,it's kinda touch and go.
Ohio no longer has it. They deemed the air clean enough and X'd it. But that opened the door for reformulated gas to come in,,it was a catch 22 thing,,,always sneaking something in on you. Now our 94 octane pump gas is slowly dissappearing

Anyway,,,I moved farther out into the country years ago when e-check was coming, now it's gone,,,but I have never had to e-check a car in my lifetime.

We call it the land of mechanical freedom,,,,LOL.

Recently bought a house in Arizona, and made sure it was in a county that doesn't have e-checking, since it's not state wide in Arizona,,,,like it is in California.
With any luck, I will never have to do it,,,and most of my cars have reached an age where they are exempt anyway.
I feel for the hotrodders that have to comply,,,it's ruining the hobby for alot of people. And for those that make big power and still pass emissions,,,my hats off to ya,,,it's not easy to do.