Car won't start

[pajeff02]

If you want to make the 2,700 mile tow out, you are welcome to use mine.

[thomasterrible]

If you want to make the 2,700 mile tow out, you are welcome to use mine.

Thanks for the offer but I plan to stay away from tow trucks. Plus you would have to take off the last 2 zeroes in the distance.

But I could do so much more and easier with a lift.

[thomasterrible]

GEEZE sticker shock! I have not replaced a starter in a long time but I don't recall them costing so much. I checked Autozone up the street which is $180 plus core for a AC Delco (Remanufactured) and $130 plus core for their lowest end Duralast one or the same $180 for their new Gold Duralast lifetime warranty starter.

Oreilleys was even worst pricing. $470 for a new AC Delco from them! No thanks.

I have not checked Advanced Auto yet and they don't have stores around here but sometimes cheaper deals.

Other than that I am not sure where to turn to or if I am expecting too much to find a cheaper starter than these.

Are there some good remanufactured starters sold somewhere or otherwise a bit more affordable perhaps online? I have to leave for an early morning ride or would check out places like the cheap GM parts online stores but other than those I don't know of a place to get less expensive starters. I am also not sure if the OEM one is best to get vs a physically smaller one to get in and out easier or if there is something else I should consider aside from less expensive which is just a temporary situation that I can't change but do need to start my car.

Thanks in advance for any advice. It is tough getting someone to give me a ride at 6am then go back to do their tasks for the day and I hate being without my ride but if I can save huge by ordering online I will.

I may look up a youtube video but I don't recall there being anything difficult about installing a starter on these. Remove the bolts and the wires and pull it out and install the new one. One person with an A4 said their Y pipe was in the way on an install thread but they could be not the sharpest tool in the shed or some other situation. My GM shop manuals would come in handy now. I plan to grab them first thing after I get this car going.

I just would like a slightly less expensive alternative if possible.

[SMWS6TA]

Look up one for the 02 Silverado 1500 5.3 engine.

AC Delco part #336-1929A

After you bench test the old one and it comes out bad sit the one above side by side. From what I know/remember the only difference is the truck starter mounting housing is even across no short and long bolt like on the stock one. It can be used and comes out a little cheaper.

[thomasterrible]

Look up one for the 02 Silverado 1500 5.3 engine.

AC Delco part #336-1929A

After you bench test the old one and it comes out bad sit the one above side by side. From what I know/remember the only difference is the truck starter mounting housing is even across no short and long bolt like on the stock one. It can be used and comes out a little cheaper.

Thanks and I think you are correct as in one of the threads I read it suggested going with the truck starter as they thought it was possible the shorter bolt could break leading to damage. Not sure how likely that would be but will see if I can get the truck starter cheaper. Thanks Much!

[thomasterrible]

I checked out Amazon and they have everything from new starters from $50 to GM Professionals for $130. And several brands I have never heard of but under $100 new. All with good reviews. Is there some reason that I should stay away from any of these? I have Amazon Prime so they would get here fast and certainly are much better on my budget than others I found.

I did try the truck version and they were not less expensive at the places I tried.

If there is not something I am missing I am very inclined to go with one from Amazon. Just not sure which one. Amazon has always treated me very well giving me credits or returning things after the 30 days or even keeping the item and still giving me my money back.

There could be an off brand that is known to be bad that I don't recognize but otherwise finances are so tight I would be inclined to get something inexpensive and if a bit smaller even better for getting it in and out while I am on my back in water with crud falling in my eyes today.

[SMWS6TA]

I have not heard of GM Professionals brand.


The one I posted IIRC was for $150 form Oreily's. Again I stress get it bench tested 1st before ordering one. It's more or less to eliminate that this is the issue. Hate for you to spend the $$ and it not be the issue.

[thomasterrible]

I have not heard of GM Professionals brand.

I see a few different AC Delco parts. One is called "processional" but am not sure which are truly better than any other AC Delco nrand. I first noticed this when buying stock AC Delco "professional" iridium spark plugs.

Yes I realize that it is just a possibility but with my limited transportation and ease of return I am having a new starfer with 2 year warranty and tech help hotline and high ratings for $80 and as I have prime it will be here today. I already bought the fuses. So if it is the starter I will be ready to replace and if not I will get a refund.

I am thinking I may have been hearing the starter solenoid as I also heard the fuel injectors prime.
So either way I will habe part in hand.
I also noticed most of the starters use two long bolts to cover more models and only include one long bolt in case your old one had a short one in there. But I bought a pair of new long bolts so a stripped thread or something doesnt stop me
Will see how this next step goes



The one I posted IIRC was for $150 form Oreily's. Again I stress get it bench tested 1st before ordering one. It's more or less to eliminate that this is the issue. Hate for you to spend the $$ and it not be the issue.

[pajeff02]

Step 1: Disconnect the battery. After that, everything else is pretty obvious.

[thomasterrible]

Step 1: Disconnect the battery. After that, everything else is pretty obvious.

If you mean taking the 2 bolts off the starter and disconnecting,the wires then installing it then yes of course.
To figure out what part or combination of parts has caused my car not to start is anything but obvious. Though I am hopeful between starter testing and fuse testing and if needed getting what I need to bypass the VATS alarm I am hopeful.
In the UK VAT means Value Added Tax. I feel the Tax part very much applies here too just no value added! VATS systems have stranded me for decades but never kept a car thief away as far as I know.

I am taking Uber this morning. It will cost over $40 for a 20 minute trip each way that even in my car is $8 or so.

[thomasterrible]

A couple quick questions and update.

First yesterday I got a ride to one of the few electronic component shops still around. I was going to buy a digital multimeter as all mine are in another location but I asked him to check the reading on his expensive piece of equipment so I could compare when I used mine. He said he was unable to get a reading at all. So I have no idea if he was just too old or what. I can't think of how a resistor which is not a delicate component like a IC or something would suddenly break in the pellet in the key. Perhaps it is possible I just don't know. Anyway I am going to get a ride to get a meter somewhere else today.

In the meantime I checked just all the fuses in the car. However one of the under hood fuse boxes no longer has it's top which tells what fuse goes where so I don't know what the giant fuses or relays go to and could not check the relays.

I did find the starter relay and I don't know if Autozone can test those or if I can test them with my meter as I have never had to do so but they are cheap and it seems a reasonable purchase to install a new relay.

So I will be very interested to see if the key is giving off any reading or not. If not that would be the problem. But the system was so messed up for a while that is hard to believe.
I will find out.

Unfortunately I can't remove the starter because my car is parked nose down on a slope in the driveway. I have no way to move it on to flat ground and was not thinking ahead when the tow truck parked it in my reserved space probably as I was a bit upset about the thousands of dollars of damage he had just done to my car. But that is an issue right now. I have both jacks and jack stands in storage but just think trusting the car won't fall forward and crushing me is a bet I want to take.

My final question is, as I have mentioned, things appear to be back to normal as far as how the fob buttons control things and how the alarm goes on and off and the red LED on the dash.
BUT When one turns the key to the start position and just does not continue rotating the key to crank it several idiot lights come on such as the brake and check engine and such. The SECURITY light comes on as well but slowly flashes when the key is in that position. I honestly do not remember if this is how it has always worked or not. So I would appreciate someone with a properly operating car and alarm let me know if this is normal or not so I will know if I may have more alarm related things to work on.

I am very much stuck on the starter removal and of course installation. I just don't have a location to tow it to nor the money to pay anyone to do any of this work for me. My closest mechanic that would do this and bill me in future if at all is in Portland and I am near Seattle. So I am trying to check every other possible thing while I am trying to figure that one out.

Thanks much for advice as always. I will update when I can attempt to measure the ohms of my ignition keys resistor and if there is any question about it's proper operation then build resistors to match what the key is putting out. There are 15 different possible readings it should be so once I know what is closest to what my reading is I can solder the resistors together to make an exact signal the receiver wants to get and that should bypass my alarm issues if I have them and it is related to the ignition lock part of things.

It is a very nice day out up here in the PNW and this is not a fun way to spend it but I certainly appreciate having a running car to get around!

[SMWS6TA]

[SMWS6TA]

The security light should time out unless VATS has activated.

Do you have a 2nd key?

Another option is that the Dealership can read the chip and tell you if it's still working. They can also make you another key, you will need to show them the registration to do so. And it will cost yah to. I think it was under $50 but

[thomasterrible]

Thanks for the pics. The missing one seems to not be so relevant to my current situation.

Considering my current lack of options does it make sense to go ahead and replace the starter and ignition relays since at least the one for the Starter was under $7?

I was really hoping to get the starter out and have it tested and replace it if needed. I am still working on figuring out how to do that. In the meantime I want to at least attempt anything within me means so I make every possible effort. If my ex doesn't pick me up in the morning it costs me over $50 to drop off data somewhere 20 minutes away. She is VERY unreliable.

[thomasterrible]

That is what I thought about getting a new key. This was a while back when I had lost my key and asked their parts department if they could look up my code by VIN. They said no and that they did not make keys the had to order in entire new lock cylinders with new keys in them and have the computer relearn them. Perhaps he got confused or was just plain wrong. I understand having the key with me and getting one made is a totally different story if that is the issue. But that is also assuming that their machines which I have seen photos of can read the keys resistor chip.

I am going to get the multimeter and see if I get a reading. If not and the key is "broken" then I don't know how anyone else would be able to know what resistor is in the pellet if it is unable to be read. So I hope that they key is still OK and the resistor is not somehow damaged. I will find that out tonight when I attempt a reading and that would let me know several things.

I have read several locksmith sites information on these keys and how much they charge for a key with a resistor in it and some are much less than others.
I will call the dealers around here as well as local locksmith shops to see what they would charge me if that is an option.

But if I get a reading from the key when I attempt to read it then it would seem to me that the key is good and not the issue and no need to get a new one.
If they key is bad by not giving a reading of what it's resistance is then the equipment used to read that information at the dealer or locksmith is not going to be able to read it either so I have no way of knowing what resistance the key originally was set to.

My only real chance is that I can measure the resistance and go from there. If I get no reading then I am going to go through all the things I have read about disabling the alarm and go that way. I am not going to buy several hundred dollars in parts to finally get back to the horrible alarm system this car has.

And no I don't have another key. I have thought of at least getting just a non-resistor key so I can easily open my doors if I lock my keys inside and then use the keys from inside to turn the alarm off.

The big thing is that I have not sat in the car for any specific amount of time. But I have not seen the SECURITY light time out yet. I will go out and sit in it for at least a minute or two with all the doors closed and will lock them as well and then turn the key on and see if the light goes off or if it keeps on blinking. If it keeps on blinking then the alarm still has issues and I am not quite sure what the next step in diagnosing that is. Maybe the reading I get from the key will tell me something maybe not.
I was hopeful as the alarm was acting so crazy and unlike I had ever seen it before and then finally appeared to be back to normal. But now it seems there may be something else that is not yet quite right.

[thomasterrible]

Well at least I got the multi-meter and was able to determine that my key indeed is working as it should and my test results are dead on for a #7 Key. I will get in the car to see if the yellow SECURITY light that flashes upon turning the ignition on goes away after a bit of time or not. If not then for sure I think that it will be cheap and easy to build a train of resistors which will work if indeed the wires attached to the ignition switch are damaged. I will just disable the alarm and be happy it runs and won't be able to strand me again.

I also picked up a new starter relay just because why not. I don't expect that to be the cause but it won't be for sure now.
I most certainly have had alarm issues so I and still guessing on that or the starter or some wiring issue but I have no place to even tow it to to work on it. There is also no room to just move it to the street without a tow truck as there is so little room.

[PeterPar]

Here is an easy way to check if a Vats by pass is needed. There is a two wire connector (orange jacket with two white wires if like the later models) coming from the steering column that you should be able to disconnect and the read the resistive value of the key while it is in the ignition switch. Since you know the resistor in the key is good, this should tell you if your problem is in the switch or not. If you get no reading, place a resistor the same value as the key between the two wires (white/black and purple/white) of the opposite half of the connector that goes to the BCM.

[thomasterrible]

Here is an easy way to check if a Vats by pass is needed. There is a two wire connector (orange jacket with two white wires if like the later models) coming from the steering column that you should be able to disconnect and the read the resistive value of the key while it is in the ignition switch. Since you know the resistor in the key is good, this should tell you if your problem is in the switch or not. If you get no reading, place a resistor the same value as the key between the two wires (white/black and purple/white) of the opposite half of the connector that goes to the BCM.

Yes you are correct about that including the color of the wires. And it is a good way to know if those wires are broken at the ignition switch or not.
If it turns out that they are broken (no signal upstream the connector) then that is where I will wire in what will have to be a "train" or series of resistors just because the value is not one that comes as a stock even number but will take a few to add up to the correct value. That would mean I would have no alarm but all these alarms have done for me is strand me in bad places so I am good with that.

My biggest worry is if the wires are not broken.

I have read in may places that those wires break very commonly.

I honestly don't know how common it is that a starter motor would suddenly go out without having any signs of wearing down such as slowing down more and more as it's life comes to an end vs working just fine as always then suddenly one day just stopping dead.

It would seem to me a wire breaking would be more in line with that but I have not changed thousands of starter motors just the ones in my own cars and friends which is not enough to know if it reasonable that a starter goes out like a burnt out light bulb so instantly.

I am positive the alarm did have issues. I don't know what the LED flashing 3 times fast meant but I got it to stop. I also got the buttons on the key fob to do what they are supposed to. So there may be this remaining issue.

I hope so as if it is not the alarm as I have described I am not in a good position to do much more.

But I am actually certified in electronics manufacturing which doesn't mean too much but I certainly can solder as well as most. And I can make a nice shrink wrapped resistor train with banana plugs on the ends which is something suggested in one of the threads I read on doing the sort of fixes or bypassing the VATS we have been talking about.

Thanks for the input.

[PeterPar]

Here's a link to pages from the 1998 service manual that may help you understand the Pass-Key system.

[SMWS6TA]

Hey I just thought of 1 more thing that can cause a no start issue.

There is a switch at the top of the brake and if a manual, the clutch too. As these cars age the plastic gets fragile. Anyways if this switch is dislodge or off by a little it will not let the car start.


For autos there is a neutral safety switch that IIRC is located on the shifter.