Car won't start

i hope I am posting in the right area.

I have a 1998 Trans Am WS6 with some minor engine mods and dyno tune.

Here is my issue. I went to get gas a few days ago and all was fine. When I went to leave the gas station my car would not start. Everything worked but not a sound when attempting to crank the motor over.

I pushed it in to a parking spot and read up on the alarm system as it was not acting properly such as the LED light on the dash was blinking 3 times fast rather than either the usual slow on and off or just off. I towed it home and did the various things that are suggested to try to get the alarm fixed and it was only after disconnecting the battery which is a few months old and fully charged and leave it disconnected for a long time then connecting it.
Then it stopped doing all the screwy things and the buttons on the fob did what they were supposed to and the red LED on the dash was looking normal.
But still no start or sound.

I am going to go to an electronics store and get a resistor that matches my key and put that inline in case I have broken wires to the lock cylinder and that will let me know if that is the cause or not. I called a Chevy dealer service writer who after my telling him of my financial situation suggested that and it makes total sense as if the wires are broken which is supposedly common that would work if that is the problem. It is cheap and easy to I will at least try it to rule it out if anything. Then decide if I want to go without an alarm or get a second non resistor key and touch my stock key to an area of those wires with the insulation stripped to keep the alarm. He has several friends that have fixed their VATS alarms this way and they worked for years. So I am going to try that today to be sure about the alarm being working or not.

If that does not work to start my car then I will be stuck.

In that case I don't have money to have it towed, diagnosed and fixed. Can someone with more experience please tell me what the next steps to test or try would be? I would think if it was a bad starter motor I would have heard it getting worn and eventually trying to engage but I have not heard that at all. I don't have my GM shop manuals here so I can't look up to see where fuses are but am not wanting to just pull them all in case pulling the wrong one messed my computer up again or more than it may be.

I use my car for daily driving and in the past year I have had 7 different drivers run in to my car to cause various damage and am waiting to get all that stuff fixed but I have had the worst luck. I was not even in the car for most of them and two were hit and runs. I was run off the road and have two bent wheels I am just replacing and getting tires for. Even the tow truck that towed my car home tore the hell out of the bottom of my bumper cover and the plastic air dam somehow did not snap off. I was telling him to get a different type of tow truck but he just scraped it in to the bed of his tow truck causing massive damage. So please have mercy on my car if not me.

Ideas????

Thanks in Advance.

1st where there any other symptoms of issues? Windows, radio interior lights not working or intermittently?

If yes it could be a BCM issue.


2nd - There is one more, less know spot that could also cause the issue with the chip and the VATS. There are 2 contact points inside the key switch. If one of those contact wires has broken off it VATS will never work. Fixing it is not an easy issue.


3rd - Have you had the starter checked out, checked all the fuses yet?

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

1st where there any other symptoms of issues? Windows, radio interior lights not working or intermittently?

If yes it could be a BCM issue.


2nd - There is one more, less know spot that could also cause the issue with the chip and the VATS. There are 2 contact points inside the key switch. If one of those contact wires has broken off it VATS will never work. Fixing it is not an easy issue.


3rd - Have you had the starter checked out, checked all the fuses yet?

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1. The radio LED lights stopped working suddenly months ago. That is about the only different thing I can think of.

2. I read about the wires that read the resistor in the key being common to be broken in the lock cylinder. However the Chevy service department said that I could put a resistor of the same ohmage as my key measures out to in line with the two orange wires that go to that and that will send the same signal as the resistor would to the system it just would not act as an alarm since it would always read as the key being correct signal.

3. No I have not taken the fuses out. I don't have my GM shop manuals here so I only have minimal lists of what fuses do whatever. I know there are fuses under the hood in one spot and on the left hand side of the dash are those the only two fuse places? If so I can get a puller and take out each one regardless of what it does and see that it is working. I don't know which one is for the alarm but I am not sure if that would be good or bad to pull if things are working normally now.

And yes I could remove the starter and take it to Autozone up the street and have it tested and buy a new one if needed but I have never had a starter just go out instantly and for sure there were issues with the alarm. So I can do that. As far as testing and diagnosis I really need instructions and I can't even move my car to get it to a shop nor have the cash to pay for anything and tow it back home to install the part. It is just a horrible financial time for me but I need my car for transportation so it is not a great position to be in.

I think it is a reasonable idea to at least try putting a resistor in where the two orange wires come from the lock cylinder that the resistor send the ohms through. If they are broken that should fix it.

If it is the same then I think it is not the alarm at least not anymore but I will have to go to the next most likely thing that it could be.

What would you do if the car still wont start with the correct signal being sent to the alarm system? Pull and check all the fuses? Remove the starter and check it? I so wish I could just connect my scan tool and be told what to replace!

Go ahead and do the VATS bypass.

If you have had the starter checked out and is fine, made sure all the fuses are good, put in the resistor and still no start (VATS bypass) I would then check the BCM next. There are 3 spots that if the solder has broken it will prevent the car from starting. It's an easy fix if you know how to use a solder. We have a pic of the 3 spots to solder. I've done it to mine and no issues since.

It could also be a bad ground but you would/should have other symptoms to point to something like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

Go ahead and do the VATS bypass.

If you have had the starter checked out and is fine, made sure all the fuses are good, put in the resistor and still no start (VATS bypass) I would then check the BCM next. There are 3 spots that if the solder has broken it will prevent the car from starting. It's an easy fix if you know how to use a solder. We have a pic of the 3 spots to solder. I've done it to mine and no issues since.

It could also be a bad ground but you would/should have other symptoms to point to something like that.

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OK thanks. And yes I am very skilled at soldering so that is right up my alley. I will go through the steps you suggested but do you have a link to that BCM and the solder points to check or resolder?

I have not had any recent differences. I did have my car get hit to cause minor damage to a few ares and one was a garbage truck glancing the front of my car. So depending on the location of the BCM which I would appreciate a link to where it even is as I can't drive to get my shop manuals, then perhaps it got messed up from one of those incidents even though it was a year ago.

At least this gives me some ways to go that I understand. They are not over my head or using tools I don't have. So yes PLEASE SEND ME THE LINKS and thanks so much for helping me on this. To e honest I should be in the hospital but am trying to get things done first and having a running car is mandatory for me. It is awesome to have a moderator chime in as typically that is someone that knows what they are talking about. I urge people to join forums for their type of vehicle and don't understand why they don't do so. Get factory shop manuals and join the forums it is the best way to get help and fix your issues!

BTW I so hate VATS alarms! I have had them only give false alarms and keep me from driving my car. One Corvette I owned was parked in a dark street in a bad part of town and the VATS messed up so I had to unhook the battery and wait to get my car started. They break down at the worst times and yet there has never been a recall to replace the lock cylinders etc. that cover so many vehicles. If your car won't start due to a known defect that commonly shows up after a certain amount of years that can be a life and death situation. Imagine trying to drive a dying relative to the hospital or escape danger or be stranded in the cold with no way to get the heater going and freeze to death. I am far more in fear of my VATS putting me in danger than it even keeping my car from being stolen.

Here a couple of the BCM pics. I can't find the thread at the moment.

I 2nd pic you can see the 5 spots I solder. It turns out there's 5 not 3.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4557/...7504d07f_b.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4525/...696b4e2a_b.jpg



Here are most of our tech self help threads for other projects in case.

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f6/technic...tickies-79083/

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

Here a couple of the BCM pics. I can't find the thread at the moment.

I 2nd pic you can see the 5 spots I solder. It turns out there's 5 not 3.








Here are most of our tech self help threads for other projects in case.

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f6/technic...tickies-79083/

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OK thanks much. If it comes to it I can for sure solder those. I have not checked out your link to the other stickies etc. but do they show where on the car the BCM is located? With no manual here I have no idea where it is to take it out and open it up.
Don't mean to be lame but I just honestly don't know where it is.

Again thanks much for your help. This will take me at least all day and maybe tomorrow since I will be needing rides but will report back what I find and and hopefully what fixed it so my car is running and I can move on. Really appreciate the help!!!

The BCM is located jus under the glove box on the passenger side. You will need to remove the kick plate, the side trim and the glove box. It has 2 connections to it.

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

The BCM is located jus under the glove box on the passenger side. You will need to remove the kick plate, the side trim and the glove box. It has 2 connections to it.

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Thanks again. I have some hope now that between all of these issues I may just get my car running. One of my medical issues is severe headaches and between the stress over my car and the last two days of workers installing a new roof over my head and dropping 100 lb bags of roofing that shook the house the constant pounding of hammers did not help.

I will get to trying everything in order as soon as my ride gets here to take me to the electronics store. Radio Shack carried expensive low quality electronic stuff but at least had things you could use in a pinch. Now with very few stores open there are just not many electronics parts stores. I have to drive a half hour to get to one. At least they are huge and have everything.

It is good to feel like I have some hope now for sure.

Start simple....check for bad ground, starter relay, ECT ECT. Does the fuel pump prime when you turn the key to run?

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Originally Posted by 0rion

Start simple....check for bad ground, starter relay, ECT ECT. Does the fuel pump prime when you turn the key to run?

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Honestly I don't hear the priming from memory but will check tomorrow.

As far as the bad ground I am not sure which wires to check to make sure they are grounded. I have heard someone that had a similar issue had a bad ground from the wire that runs from the negative battery terminal to the fender.

Today I attempted to start it just to see. I heard a faint sound the first two times that sounded like they were coming from the passenger side lower engine. But after those times it stopped making the noise so I could try to pin point it more.

I can remove and install a starter easily of course but without my manual I am not sure how to check to see if the starter relay is bad or not.

This whole thing is odd and the reason I am sure that at least at one point the alarm was a problem was that the buttons on the fob were not doing what they were supposed to and the alarm was going off when it should not and I was seeing the dash LED flash fast 3times and keep on repeating. But now the door locks and arming and disarming the lock and the LED light and all seems normal with the one exception that in the past when I would push the lock button on the key fob I would get two quick horn beeps and now I only get one.

So I do plan to do the things that have been suggested and think checking the starter solenoid is not a bad idea either. In fact I will look up the price and if cheap just buy one. I have just never had to do enough work on this motor to know where things are located and without my shop manuals am pretty lost to be honest.

I have not had any check engine light come on or seen any trouble codes.

Since it is not cranking over at all then would it not make sense that it would be the starter or the relay to it vs the fuel?

I will get a box of fuses and replace any that are bad or questionable and at least that will rule out fuses and that is a start.

Beyond removing the starter and having it tested though without instructions I am pretty worthless at attempting to find and test the starter solenoid I have never even seen on this car. I wish I knew these things better but I just don't.

And of course thanks for the input. I can obviously use all the help I can get. As I don't have a lift or anything but a slanted driveway to work on my car it has limited me from doing many things as I can't jack it up at home to get underneath. I am sure I would know where things were if I had that. Also the shop manuals are great and would answer most of my questions but as I don't have it here it does me no good at the moment.

single beep means something is not closed fully. trunk or door.

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

single beep means something is not closed fully. trunk or door.

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AH OK Thanks I will figure out which one it is.

I continued to have horrible luck with my ride with the tow truck driver who was using a flatbed and winch method. He had the underside of my front bumper cover dragging and making deep gouges in to it as he was pulling it towards the truck. He made the plastic air dam fold backwards then someone the entire front end did not break off. I had told him to stop and get a different type of tow truck and use dollies if necessary but he ignored me and looked like a kid that was raised by wolves and never owned a tooth brush so that makes 7 idiots that have run in to me causing damage in the past year.
It was showroom mint when I got it. Anyway he rolled one of the windows down and one of the wheels and tires are in the truck and it is closed but I will lubricate everything and make sure they are all closed. Glad that was a simple thing. The 3 fast flashes of the red LED on the dash was confusing and I could not find any information on it. It seems I managed to fix that now so I am not worried but it was obviously not a good thing to see.

I have my rides lined up to go to the electronics store etc. and try all of the various suggestions and hope one of the easiest one works but if I can do anything and fix it myself I will be more than happy.

Sort of reminds of me a flaw in Subaru Forester clocks. You don't see many for sale on Ebay but rather services to repair them. Those clocks come out in about two seconds and there is one capacitor that has a bad joint. It took me all of 5 minutes from start to finish to fix the clock in my moms car. So if nothing works I will try the solder joints in the BCM though it would be nice to have an easier fix.

Electrical gremlin are a MAJOR PITA to trouble shoot.

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

Electrical gremlin are a MAJOR PITA to trouble shoot.

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Oh don't I know it.
A few months back I got a code saying the crank position sensor was bad. Replaced it and it was fixed.
I like those scenarios much more.

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

Electrical gremlin are a MAJOR PITA to trouble shoot.

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I am still waiting to get a ride to the electronics store but two new bits of information.\
First I CAN hear the fuel injectors prime.
Second I hear some small amount of noise coming from the right lower part of the motor. So I am thinking starter or starter solenoid?

I don't have manuals but can look up to see where the starters two bolts that hold it on are but no idea on the solenoid. It may be attached to the starter motor in some way for all I know.

Thoughts?

And you were correct about the beeps. Nothing was open but the hatch has a wheel and tire under the glass and I had to slam that down and not getting the two beeps.

In my mind for sure the alarm was messed up. But thinking less and less it still is. I think that the starter or solenoid is the issue.
Since I have only so much time should I just yank the starter and have it tested or should I check all the fuses first?

It is going to rain soon and I will be outside working on this which won't be fun so the faster I can get things done the better.

Do very much appreciate all the help. I literally could not have paid a mechanic to diagnose this so it means a ton to me to get the help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thomasterrible

I am still waiting to get a ride to the electronics store but two new bits of information.\
First I CAN hear the fuel injectors prime.
Second I hear some small amount of noise coming from the right lower part of the motor. So I am thinking starter or starter solenoid?

I don't have manuals but can look up to see where the starters two bolts that hold it on are but no idea on the solenoid. It may be attached to the starter motor in some way for all I know.

Thoughts?

And you were correct about the beeps. Nothing was open but the hatch has a wheel and tire under the glass and I had to slam that down and now I AM GETTING THE TWO BEEPS. Correction from my last reply. So all the alarm stuff seems to be back to working perfectly.

In my mind for sure the alarm was messed up. But thinking less and less it still is. I think that the starter or solenoid is the issue.
Since I have only so much time should I just yank the starter and have it tested or should I check all the fuses first?

My ride was late so once again I can't get the part at the electronics store to bypass the VATS to see if it is still an issue.
But now I am hearing fuel and at least what I think is a faint sound coming from the starter or starter solenoid I am pretty close to nailing this....knock on wood. I did get all the fuses I could possibly need and a good fuse puller as my 15 bags of tools are in storage at the moment.

I feel like I am making progress though. I may end up driving an hour each way to pick up my shop manuals but it would be nice if it were just down to a fuse or starter (something cheap and easy).

It is going to rain soon and I will be outside working on this which won't be fun so the faster I can get things done the better.

Do very much appreciate all the help. I literally could not have paid a mechanic to diagnose this so it means a ton to me to get the help.

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Yes 2 bolts hold it on, plus the bell housing cover. The solenoid is connected to 2 wires.

If the trunk is not fully closing or releasing the spring on the latch might be worn out. There's a cheap fix by adding another spring from the hardware store but I'd have to look it up.


When you turn the key to on position you should be able to hear the fuel pump prime. They are a little noisy.

Before you move on to another issue lets eliminate the starter from the possible list 1st. It's why I asked if you had it checked.

Sounds good. One of the people who damaged my car was a friend of my neighbor who backed her trucks hitch in to one of my tail lights and it moved the latch a bit.
One of the hit and runs.

I listened closely this last time and did hear the pump priming sound for sure and that other sound I can tell generally where it was coming from. It wont be fun in the rain but I will get the starter out and tested and if bad replaced. I just personally have not had a starter go from working fine to dead. I am used to hearing it die more slowly.
But I will take it out and look it up to know what size sockets etc I will need and hope that fixes it.
Though I did get some fuses and s fuse puller today to check those which is easy and perhaps worth checking them before pulling the starter. Will see how it goes but while the car still won't start it is getting better. The alarm was going crazy and now normal again.

Will see what this next try yields.
How I wish I owned a lift in a heated garage. Laying in puddles not looking forward to.

If you want to make the 2,700 mile tow out, you are welcome to use mine. :D

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Originally Posted by pajeff02

If you want to make the 2,700 mile tow out, you are welcome to use mine. :D

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Thanks for the offer but I plan to stay away from tow trucks. Plus you would have to take off the last 2 zeroes in the distance.

But I could do so much more and easier with a lift.

GEEZE sticker shock! I have not replaced a starter in a long time but I don't recall them costing so much. I checked Autozone up the street which is $180 plus core for a AC Delco (Remanufactured) and $130 plus core for their lowest end Duralast one or the same $180 for their new Gold Duralast lifetime warranty starter.

Oreilleys was even worst pricing. $470 for a new AC Delco from them! No thanks.

I have not checked Advanced Auto yet and they don't have stores around here but sometimes cheaper deals.

Other than that I am not sure where to turn to or if I am expecting too much to find a cheaper starter than these.

Are there some good remanufactured starters sold somewhere or otherwise a bit more affordable perhaps online? I have to leave for an early morning ride or would check out places like the cheap GM parts online stores but other than those I don't know of a place to get less expensive starters. I am also not sure if the OEM one is best to get vs a physically smaller one to get in and out easier or if there is something else I should consider aside from less expensive which is just a temporary situation that I can't change but do need to start my car.

Thanks in advance for any advice. It is tough getting someone to give me a ride at 6am then go back to do their tasks for the day and I hate being without my ride but if I can save huge by ordering online I will.

I may look up a youtube video but I don't recall there being anything difficult about installing a starter on these. Remove the bolts and the wires and pull it out and install the new one. One person with an A4 said their Y pipe was in the way on an install thread but they could be not the sharpest tool in the shed or some other situation. My GM shop manuals would come in handy now. I plan to grab them first thing after I get this car going.

I just would like a slightly less expensive alternative if possible.

Look up one for the 02 Silverado 1500 5.3 engine.

AC Delco part #336-1929A

After you bench test the old one and it comes out bad sit the one above side by side. From what I know/remember the only difference is the truck starter mounting housing is even across no short and long bolt like on the stock one. It can be used and comes out a little cheaper.

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

Look up one for the 02 Silverado 1500 5.3 engine.

AC Delco part #336-1929A

After you bench test the old one and it comes out bad sit the one above side by side. From what I know/remember the only difference is the truck starter mounting housing is even across no short and long bolt like on the stock one. It can be used and comes out a little cheaper.

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Thanks and I think you are correct as in one of the threads I read it suggested going with the truck starter as they thought it was possible the shorter bolt could break leading to damage. Not sure how likely that would be but will see if I can get the truck starter cheaper. Thanks Much!

I checked out Amazon and they have everything from new starters from $50 to GM Professionals for $130. And several brands I have never heard of but under $100 new. All with good reviews. Is there some reason that I should stay away from any of these? I have Amazon Prime so they would get here fast and certainly are much better on my budget than others I found.

I did try the truck version and they were not less expensive at the places I tried.

If there is not something I am missing I am very inclined to go with one from Amazon. Just not sure which one. Amazon has always treated me very well giving me credits or returning things after the 30 days or even keeping the item and still giving me my money back.

There could be an off brand that is known to be bad that I don't recognize but otherwise finances are so tight I would be inclined to get something inexpensive and if a bit smaller even better for getting it in and out while I am on my back in water with crud falling in my eyes today.

I have not heard of GM Professionals brand.


The one I posted IIRC was for $150 form Oreily's. Again I stress get it bench tested 1st before ordering one. It's more or less to eliminate that this is the issue. Hate for you to spend the $$ and it not be the issue.

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

I have not heard of GM Professionals brand.

I see a few different AC Delco parts. One is called "processional" but am not sure which are truly better than any other AC Delco nrand. I first noticed this when buying stock AC Delco "professional" iridium spark plugs.

Yes I realize that it is just a possibility but with my limited transportation and ease of return I am having a new starfer with 2 year warranty and tech help hotline and high ratings for $80 and as I have prime it will be here today. I already bought the fuses. So if it is the starter I will be ready to replace and if not I will get a refund.

I am thinking I may have been hearing the starter solenoid as I also heard the fuel injectors prime.
So either way I will habe part in hand.
I also noticed most of the starters use two long bolts to cover more models and only include one long bolt in case your old one had a short one in there. But I bought a pair of new long bolts so a stripped thread or something doesnt stop me
Will see how this next step goes



The one I posted IIRC was for $150 form Oreily's. Again I stress get it bench tested 1st before ordering one. It's more or less to eliminate that this is the issue. Hate for you to spend the $$ and it not be the issue.

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Step 1: Disconnect the battery. After that, everything else is pretty obvious.

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Originally Posted by pajeff02

Step 1: Disconnect the battery. After that, everything else is pretty obvious.

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If you mean taking the 2 bolts off the starter and disconnecting,the wires then installing it then yes of course.
To figure out what part or combination of parts has caused my car not to start is anything but obvious. Though I am hopeful between starter testing and fuse testing and if needed getting what I need to bypass the VATS alarm I am hopeful.
In the UK VAT means Value Added Tax. I feel the Tax part very much applies here too just no value added! VATS systems have stranded me for decades but never kept a car thief away as far as I know.

I am taking Uber this morning. It will cost over $40 for a 20 minute trip each way that even in my car is $8 or so.

A couple quick questions and update.

First yesterday I got a ride to one of the few electronic component shops still around. I was going to buy a digital multimeter as all mine are in another location but I asked him to check the reading on his expensive piece of equipment so I could compare when I used mine. He said he was unable to get a reading at all. So I have no idea if he was just too old or what. I can't think of how a resistor which is not a delicate component like a IC or something would suddenly break in the pellet in the key. Perhaps it is possible I just don't know. Anyway I am going to get a ride to get a meter somewhere else today.

In the meantime I checked just all the fuses in the car. However one of the under hood fuse boxes no longer has it's top which tells what fuse goes where so I don't know what the giant fuses or relays go to and could not check the relays.

I did find the starter relay and I don't know if Autozone can test those or if I can test them with my meter as I have never had to do so but they are cheap and it seems a reasonable purchase to install a new relay.

So I will be very interested to see if the key is giving off any reading or not. If not that would be the problem. But the system was so messed up for a while that is hard to believe.
I will find out.

Unfortunately I can't remove the starter because my car is parked nose down on a slope in the driveway. I have no way to move it on to flat ground and was not thinking ahead when the tow truck parked it in my reserved space probably as I was a bit upset about the thousands of dollars of damage he had just done to my car. But that is an issue right now. I have both jacks and jack stands in storage but just think trusting the car won't fall forward and crushing me is a bet I want to take.

My final question is, as I have mentioned, things appear to be back to normal as far as how the fob buttons control things and how the alarm goes on and off and the red LED on the dash.
BUT When one turns the key to the start position and just does not continue rotating the key to crank it several idiot lights come on such as the brake and check engine and such. The SECURITY light comes on as well but slowly flashes when the key is in that position. I honestly do not remember if this is how it has always worked or not. So I would appreciate someone with a properly operating car and alarm let me know if this is normal or not so I will know if I may have more alarm related things to work on.

I am very much stuck on the starter removal and of course installation. I just don't have a location to tow it to nor the money to pay anyone to do any of this work for me. My closest mechanic that would do this and bill me in future if at all is in Portland and I am near Seattle. So I am trying to check every other possible thing while I am trying to figure that one out.

Thanks much for advice as always. I will update when I can attempt to measure the ohms of my ignition keys resistor and if there is any question about it's proper operation then build resistors to match what the key is putting out. There are 15 different possible readings it should be so once I know what is closest to what my reading is I can solder the resistors together to make an exact signal the receiver wants to get and that should bypass my alarm issues if I have them and it is related to the ignition lock part of things.

It is a very nice day out up here in the PNW and this is not a fun way to spend it but I certainly appreciate having a running car to get around!

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server24...0.1280.JPG?c=2

The security light should time out unless VATS has activated.

Do you have a 2nd key?

Another option is that the Dealership can read the chip and tell you if it's still working. They can also make you another key, you will need to show them the registration to do so. And it will cost yah to. I think it was under $50 but :dunno:

Thanks for the pics. The missing one seems to not be so relevant to my current situation.

Considering my current lack of options does it make sense to go ahead and replace the starter and ignition relays since at least the one for the Starter was under $7?

I was really hoping to get the starter out and have it tested and replace it if needed. I am still working on figuring out how to do that. In the meantime I want to at least attempt anything within me means so I make every possible effort. If my ex doesn't pick me up in the morning it costs me over $50 to drop off data somewhere 20 minutes away. She is VERY unreliable.

That is what I thought about getting a new key. This was a while back when I had lost my key and asked their parts department if they could look up my code by VIN. They said no and that they did not make keys the had to order in entire new lock cylinders with new keys in them and have the computer relearn them. Perhaps he got confused or was just plain wrong. I understand having the key with me and getting one made is a totally different story if that is the issue. But that is also assuming that their machines which I have seen photos of can read the keys resistor chip.

I am going to get the multimeter and see if I get a reading. If not and the key is "broken" then I don't know how anyone else would be able to know what resistor is in the pellet if it is unable to be read. So I hope that they key is still OK and the resistor is not somehow damaged. I will find that out tonight when I attempt a reading and that would let me know several things.

I have read several locksmith sites information on these keys and how much they charge for a key with a resistor in it and some are much less than others.
I will call the dealers around here as well as local locksmith shops to see what they would charge me if that is an option.

But if I get a reading from the key when I attempt to read it then it would seem to me that the key is good and not the issue and no need to get a new one.
If they key is bad by not giving a reading of what it's resistance is then the equipment used to read that information at the dealer or locksmith is not going to be able to read it either so I have no way of knowing what resistance the key originally was set to.

My only real chance is that I can measure the resistance and go from there. If I get no reading then I am going to go through all the things I have read about disabling the alarm and go that way. I am not going to buy several hundred dollars in parts to finally get back to the horrible alarm system this car has.

And no I don't have another key. I have thought of at least getting just a non-resistor key so I can easily open my doors if I lock my keys inside and then use the keys from inside to turn the alarm off.

The big thing is that I have not sat in the car for any specific amount of time. But I have not seen the SECURITY light time out yet. I will go out and sit in it for at least a minute or two with all the doors closed and will lock them as well and then turn the key on and see if the light goes off or if it keeps on blinking. If it keeps on blinking then the alarm still has issues and I am not quite sure what the next step in diagnosing that is. Maybe the reading I get from the key will tell me something maybe not.
I was hopeful as the alarm was acting so crazy and unlike I had ever seen it before and then finally appeared to be back to normal. But now it seems there may be something else that is not yet quite right.

Well at least I got the multi-meter and was able to determine that my key indeed is working as it should and my test results are dead on for a #7 Key. I will get in the car to see if the yellow SECURITY light that flashes upon turning the ignition on goes away after a bit of time or not. If not then for sure I think that it will be cheap and easy to build a train of resistors which will work if indeed the wires attached to the ignition switch are damaged. I will just disable the alarm and be happy it runs and won't be able to strand me again.

I also picked up a new starter relay just because why not. I don't expect that to be the cause but it won't be for sure now.
I most certainly have had alarm issues so I and still guessing on that or the starter or some wiring issue but I have no place to even tow it to to work on it. There is also no room to just move it to the street without a tow truck as there is so little room.

Here is an easy way to check if a Vats by pass is needed. There is a two wire connector (orange jacket with two white wires if like the later models) coming from the steering column that you should be able to disconnect and the read the resistive value of the key while it is in the ignition switch. Since you know the resistor in the key is good, this should tell you if your problem is in the switch or not. If you get no reading, place a resistor the same value as the key between the two wires (white/black and purple/white) of the opposite half of the connector that goes to the BCM.

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Originally Posted by PeterPar

Here is an easy way to check if a Vats by pass is needed. There is a two wire connector (orange jacket with two white wires if like the later models) coming from the steering column that you should be able to disconnect and the read the resistive value of the key while it is in the ignition switch. Since you know the resistor in the key is good, this should tell you if your problem is in the switch or not. If you get no reading, place a resistor the same value as the key between the two wires (white/black and purple/white) of the opposite half of the connector that goes to the BCM.

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Yes you are correct about that including the color of the wires. And it is a good way to know if those wires are broken at the ignition switch or not.
If it turns out that they are broken (no signal upstream the connector) then that is where I will wire in what will have to be a "train" or series of resistors just because the value is not one that comes as a stock even number but will take a few to add up to the correct value. That would mean I would have no alarm but all these alarms have done for me is strand me in bad places so I am good with that.

My biggest worry is if the wires are not broken.

I have read in may places that those wires break very commonly.

I honestly don't know how common it is that a starter motor would suddenly go out without having any signs of wearing down such as slowing down more and more as it's life comes to an end vs working just fine as always then suddenly one day just stopping dead.

It would seem to me a wire breaking would be more in line with that but I have not changed thousands of starter motors just the ones in my own cars and friends which is not enough to know if it reasonable that a starter goes out like a burnt out light bulb so instantly.

I am positive the alarm did have issues. I don't know what the LED flashing 3 times fast meant but I got it to stop. I also got the buttons on the key fob to do what they are supposed to. So there may be this remaining issue.

I hope so as if it is not the alarm as I have described I am not in a good position to do much more.

But I am actually certified in electronics manufacturing which doesn't mean too much but I certainly can solder as well as most. And I can make a nice shrink wrapped resistor train with banana plugs on the ends which is something suggested in one of the threads I read on doing the sort of fixes or bypassing the VATS we have been talking about.

Thanks for the input.

Here's a link to pages from the 1998 service manual that may help you understand the Pass-Key system.

Hey I just thought of 1 more thing that can cause a no start issue.

There is a switch at the top of the brake and if a manual, the clutch too. As these cars age the plastic gets fragile. Anyways if this switch is dislodge or off by a little it will not let the car start.


For autos there is a neutral safety switch that IIRC is located on the shifter.

No Link but I do have the factory shop manuals for my car they are just in storage right now where they will do me no good. Money is a big factor here and I can basically make the same signal from the resistors so that it thinks the right key is in the ignition or I can spend big money fixing the entire thing which I am not going to do.

Actually when I first noticed the issues with the alarm the service writer at the local Chevy dealer told me to bring it in and diagnoses fees etc. etc. until I let him know I had no money and then he shared with my
that he had several friends that had bypassed the VATS with the matching resistors as were in the key and had been driving them like that for years. So with the other reading I have done and input here I am hoping it will work for me too if that is the problem. I don't know how one would get down to identifying the BCM issues to re-solder the 5 joints that were posted but it is good information to know.

It has an A4 and I suppose that could be an issue. I have not gone to see if the SECURITY light goes off after a period of time with the ignition on yet or not though. I will check the links out but really I need to find my factory shop manuals as this was sort of the type of thing I bought them for. I have severe chronic headaches and this issue has not been super awesome treatment for me.

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Originally Posted by thomasterrible

I will check the links out but really I need to find my factory shop manuals as this was sort of the type of thing I bought them for.

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The link I posted above are pdf files from the factory manuals.

I know and appreciate it. I was just saying that my buying them does me little good if they are not where I can read them when I need to. Along with a thousand other things in a 10x20 storage unit I hope to empty as soon as possible.

Well I am very happy to report that I went to the electronics parts supply store and bought some 1.870K ohm resistors and used one to install in to the bottom half of the connector from the wires that come from the ignition key lock sensor. My car fired right up. I got some shrink tubing and will do a cleaner and more permanent fix but without cutting any of the existing wiring or stock connector. But I won't be dealing with getting stranded by my alarm again.

Thanks for the help with this bugger. Total cost of repairs was under $5

Alright!!! Glad it's running again.


I bet one of those contacts in the key cylinder broke and that's why you need to do this. It honestly isn't wore tearing into the column to find out.

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Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

Alright!!! Glad it's running again.


I bet one of those contacts in the key cylinder broke and that's why you need to do this. It honestly isn't wore tearing into the column to find out.

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Yup I think that is exactly what it was. I was quite sure when I inserted the key and tried measuring the contacts at the connector that runs from the ignition lock cylinder down and I got
nothing for a reading. So at least one connection was broken as it was not reading the resistance on the pellet of the key.

There are not tons of big electronics parts stores and even when Radio Shack was in business they had very little stock of anything and it was all a bunch of garbage.
The store I went to is huge and has many drawers with hundreds of thousands of resistors and I was able to buy that exact resistor which at a radio shack you would have been lucky to find a combination to solder together resistors to make the right value.

I am going to just leave it alone. The way I bent the leads of the resistor holds it in place pretty well but I put some electrical tape over it just to drive this morning and am going to put shrink tubing over the entire connector today before putting the panel back on. So I will have not cut any wires or damaged any connectors and it can be undone quickly and be in perfect shape if anyone should ever want to.
But I won't be doing that.

Going in to this I read that it was very common that the wires that attach to the lock cylinder will break. And I could not believe that a starter would go out instantly (though I am glad I now know where to get good starters for low prices). So it took many years to do but one of the wires obviously broke and things with the alarm went all weird but now are reset and acting normally. I have not tested to see if the alarm works or not but don't much care. The key fob lock and unlocks the doors and I get the beeps of the horn when it is locked etc..

I was worried about it not being this problem as I did not have anything up to test next. However the neutral safety switch is a pretty good guess and would have been worth looking in to. I had a friend that was having issues with his truck and while I don't recall the specifics the solution was the neutral safety switch.

It really is a very simple diagnosis and repair. One just needs to take that panel off and undo the connectors and put the key with the resistor pellet in the ignition and measure to see if they are getting a reading. If not then just put in a resistor that matches what your key measures out as and there are charts on the internet which give the values of each of the 15 possible resistor pellets so you know exactly what to buy to replace in to the lower connector. If for some reason the reading you get from the key is close but not exactly the same as that listed on the list of values you find online go with the online resistor values.
For me getting to a decent electronics parts store was the hardest part. There is a big advantage of going to a big dedicated electronics parts store though.
They have single resistors for sale and as in my case did have exactly the 1.870K ohm value resistor. I only needed 1 but bought 5 as they were very cheap and that meant I could destroy several and still be OK. Going back to the electronics store would have been a big deal.

And of course I think it is pretty safe to say that this will fix the issue for the life of the car and I won't have to deal with it again.