Here's vehix list
11 Great Muscle Cars - Top 10 List - Vehix - Page 10
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Here's vehix list
11 Great Muscle Cars - Top 10 List - Vehix - Page 10
Any top ten muscle car list that does not include the '70 Buick Stage 1 is crap. Just my .02 :)
GNX>> GSXstage 1Quote:
Originally Posted by pajeff02
Oh...wait...I dont want to get another warning for disagreeing with a mod......disregard this post......
Of that list, I'm a little partial to the Chevelle SS :) I can do without any of the others with the exception of the 69 Camaro SS, 1969 Dodge Charger R/T, 1966 Pontiac GTO and the 2010 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 :shrug:
Please don't start...Quote:
Originally Posted by Murder after Midnight
Ok i'm gonna chillQuote:
Originally Posted by KahanaReef
I'm gonna hold you to that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Murder after Midnight
If you have the new challengers, you must put the old. 71 Challenger 440 six-pack is an amazing ride. Im kinda partial to this cause my Dad owns one. Use to have a 72 also but sold it and bought a boat.
Just another bit of info for yall to let marinate, my Dads buddy just got a 2010 ZR1 that had 20k on it for 40 grand. Pretty good deal if you ask me.
Why do we have to do this every month.
I have a magazine somewhere from the 90s where they had the top 10 muslce cars. Wish I could find it, I bet its at my dads house. :)
That AMC is a 2-seater thus for me NOT a muscle car so thats out.
69 Camaro........yes.
New Camaro....no.
68 Chevelle? Hell no...........1970 LS6......yes.
2010 Corvette ZR1....no. Its a sports car.
2009 SRT8 Challenger....no way in hell. The 2011 is FASTER so thus its a better one and I still wouldnt rank that one as a top 10.
69 Charger R/T....yes.
70 Boss 302......no, Boss 429....perhaps.
2011 5.0 Mustang....no.
70 Torino Cobra.....maybe.
66 GTO.....no.
This list sucks.
Whoever made this list should stick to writing articles about Accords and Corollas, there's no way to make a 'top 10' list of muscle cars on a general basis, it's like ranking colors of the rainbow.
edit: this article is just '11 Great muscle cars', not the 11 best. there is a difference OP. it's pretty obvious this list is just marketing for the new Mustang/Camaro/Challenger, putting them in the same list as some of the real muscle cars makes them seem more desirable and therefore generates some new/used cars sales revenue for Vehix (note the hyperlinked names of the new Mustang/Camaro/Challenger/Corvette but not any of the vintage cars), this list shouldn't be taken as anymore than an advertisement.
Bunch of shit half the cars on their are not even muscle cars.
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I would suggest this be the last time you make a comment like this. If you need to talk about it, PM me, but you need to learn to let it go and handle it better in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murder after Midnight
You want a raw muscle car, Google a 1964 Dodge Polara 426 stage III Max Wadge with the 12.5:1 CR option. The car would only go a 1/4 at a time before needing a fill up. No seat belts, no radio, no power anything, no heater, no tach. just a body, seats, plexi glass and a drivetrain. They were 12 sec. beasts that looked like grandpa's weekend car. That to me is a muscle car. Check it out.
What is a Max Wedge?
Check out the 1968 'super stock' Barracudas and Darts, they were factory production cars (availiable at your local Plymouth/Dodge dealer) and ran in the mid 10s ;) I believe they are still the fastest US production car to this day.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002ssslp
My favorite is a ls6 chevelle nothing like 450hp of gm big block 4 gears 4:10 ratio one of the fastest muscle cars car built.
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fixed, (see posts 14, 15)Quote:
Originally Posted by REVNORR82
???
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http://www.moparsunlimited.net/faste...ction_cars.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by REVNORR82
that will give you somewhat of an idea.. looks like the firebird 400 was actually the fastest GM production car..
Ehh some of those cars are dealer options or all out race cars as an actual dd that everyone could own the top pf that list was almost un-obtainable by an average person and cost too much witch goes against the definition of a muscle car
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The superstock Darts and Cuda's were faster but they were race cars only and had no title just a bill of sale and could not be put on the street. The Max Wedge cars had titles and most ran on the street. My idea of a muscle car is street driven. Race cars are a whole different subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by justinmc978
where is this 'definition'? since when does a muscle car have to be cheap? you realize the hemi option back in the day was well over $500? (not chump change back in the 60s); Totally useless to define a 'muscle car' based on how much it cost new.Quote:
Originally Posted by REVNORR82
'your idea', again, these are loose definitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002ssslp
Not only was I not trying to say the SS cuda was the best muscle car ever, (because I dont think there is 'one'; see post 11) but I also wasn't trying to put you down, rather from one guy to another I was just letting you know about another cool factory freak that is relatively unheardof in the car world.
often times you get these special ground-pounding dealer modified cars, but the SS Cuda/Dart was different in that it was 100% factory stock, regardless of not being streetable, that doesn't happen very often (ever?).
Muscle car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia affordability is one of the key features of a muscle car.Quote:
Originally Posted by justinmc978
They so many mistakes in that list its not even funny ..
Well I'm still waiting for my response after two inboxesQuote:
Originally Posted by Y2KPewterSS
:lol: quoting wikipedia which uses the Webster definitionQuote:
Originally Posted by REVNORR82
okay well, I guess that effectively renders all top level Hemi cudas, Challengers, Chargers, GTXs as 'not muscle cars' including the Superbird/Daytona, and also the Boss 429 Mustang, and just for the hell of it, all of the COPO Camaros/Chevelles as well, as all of those cars were very expensive back in the day.
again, making price a determinate of what is a 'muscle car' is useless, that would mean that midlevel cars (say, 350 Chevelles /383 or 440 superbees, roadrunners) are, while the upper level versions of the exact same cars(396 or Copo Chevelles / 426 Chargers/GTXs) are not.
I think when they say cheap they are comparing them to high dollar sports cars like Cobra, Corvete and some of the Euro Crap. The Roadrunner was cheap, in 1968 you could buy a base RR for under 3 grand. Al you got was a 335 hp 383 big block with a base 3 speed trans. 4 speed and torqueflite were extra. It ran in the low 15's. Not very fast by today's or even 60's standards. But put up about a grand more and you got a 426 Hemi with air grabber hood, 4 speed trans, Dana rear and nice 4:10 gears. Now you just went from 15's to low 13's and if you had slicks you were in the 12's. How much would it cost today to pick up 2.5 seconds and 20 mph in a T/A or Camaro ?
Yes the high dollar cars were muscle cars but they started low before you had to go through the two pages of options. Ever see a cheap Cobra or Corvette. How about a 4k Ferrari or Lambo ? NO.
Roadrunners were indeed cheap, some even sold without carpet, the expensive counterpart to the roadrunner was the GTX.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002ssslp
A grand was the typical cost to get up to a hemi, the motor itself was over $500, add in the other luxury appointments that typical hemi cars would get (mind you, there were Hemi strippers out there, but most were well optioned) and I'm sure you would be there. That said, but you have to remember, $1000 dollars then bought half of the original $2000 383 car, as stated earlier, the hemi option was not cheap.
and as far as the ferrari/lambo/vettes, it's all relative, I mean you can buy a base model vette for under $50k but can go all the way up to a ZR1 for over $100k, those are two very different amounts of money. I'm not brushed up on my imports, but I do know the way Lambo/Ferrari makes their profit is from options. which can easily add up to over $100k.
Top 11 Muscle cars is easy:
1: 1992 Chevy Corsica 3.1L
2: 1986 Ford LTD
3: 1989 Ford Ranger 2.9L
4: 1982 Trans Am 305ci
5: 1997 Camaro RS 3.8L
6: 1984 Camaro 305ci
7: 2000 Ford Excusion
8: 1989 Firebird Formula 305 TPI
9: 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix 3.1L
10: 1997 Buick Park Avenue 3.8L
11: 1983 Dodge Omni 1.7L
12: Any year Pontiac Fiero
Come on, it's got to be '86 GT! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by blackSS01
:lmao: :lol:
Hey man, you can't do this list without giving props to one of the greatest musclecars of ALL TIME. the 1983 Dodge Omni 1.7L with auto trans. Those suckers would fly ! lolQuote:
Originally Posted by KMdef9
We will add it to number 12!
I clicked on the link, I don't see a list :shrug: I see multiple pages and the link goes to one picture. I figure there are alot of good muscle cars left off the list (there always is when a list like this comes out) so I'm not going to bother to take the time to look through 10+ pages of opinions.
There are just too many good muscle cars from the 50's up through the 70's to nail down just 10. I'm not 100% set on any particular brand so I've owned a vast assortment (and still do) currently of Chevy's, Fords, and Pontiacs. Because they all have great features in their own rights, I hate to nail down a favorite.
All these cars, AMC included, as well as Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, and Pontiac, all have a rich racing history alot of which went down in the record books. To own any of them is a privilage in my eyes, (and better than a 401K :D). You can't go wrong with any of them. I believe they all deserve a spot on a list regardless of the powertrain options. Big engine or small, they were all performers of a different kind.
As far as the newer stuff, I have always felt they belong on their own list. You have vintage, and you have modern. Prices are completely different, performance is completely different, looks and feel are completely different. Just can't compare 2 cars that are 40+ years apart. It was a different time then.
You bring up a good point. The Super Stock Hemi Darts did not come with a warranty, they weren't technically produced by the factory either as has been mentioned, they were basic shells of a car that were actually modifed by Hurst, other cars like these went through Car Craft. They even came with a decal in the glove box that stated, "not for street legal use".Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002ssslp
They were only sold to specific people for racing purposes to garner publicity and promotion.
That doesn't mean I don't like them,,,,,who wouldn't? I'm not going to kick what is now a $250,000+ car out of my garage :D There are a few now that are restored and registered on the street.
You could however order something similar. Say,,,,,a 62 409 chevy with heater and radio delete, as well as insulation delete. It's basically a bare bones muscle car that could be ordered by anyone. That's how people like Frank Sanders and Don Nicholson got their start in racing and made these cars famous. This was also done with Pontiacs and Arnie Farmer, and the 406 Fords with Les Ritchey. This trend of lighter weight cars continued through the 60's.
I use wages to compare. Average wage in the USA is roughly $20/hour. Thats over 40k a year and you can get a V8 Mustang for less than 3/4s of your salary?Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002ssslp
How does that equate to 1968? :) If you look at gas prices you would have to make 80+k now to break even from the early 70s.
Hell yea! I love the '64 Polara with the 426 Max Wedge! I've only seen one.........but it was cool as HELL!!Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002ssslp
I want a 66 Charger, silver, with the 426 and a 4-speed. lol
I'm not clear on what point it is you are trying to make TLSaddict and 2002SLP....
Prices never really reflected the definition of muscle car and I'm not real sure how that got started. Trying to compare today's costs to say,,,,,1969 is apples to oranges. Back then a $3,000 car was pretty damned expensive for the majority of people.
I remember my father buying his 69 GTO new (and still has it) paying $3404 exactly. His car payments of $40 a month was tough back then when you have a house payment and a family to feed. Working 2 jobs to make ends meet. You were lucky back then to clear $150 a week.
Today isn't much different, just a larger scale. If I had to dwell on one difference it's that most of the good jobs have left the US now and went elsewhere. But that's another discussion.
Muscle cars came in alot of different platforms and price ranges. It's just a matter of what you could afford.
^thank you.
I NEVER said it comes down to price that makes the difinition of a muscle car. Show me where those words popped out of my mouth (or on to the screen). What I do is try to use wages to draw a comparison for people who say they could afford one back then but not now. That is it. NEVER did I say that price is a determinant of a muscle car so do not try to put words in my mouth again. And BTW, my point is that if your dad made 150 bring home thats just over 200 a week he made 10k+ a year. That car is roughly 1/3rd his pay. Thats pretty cheap in my opinion vs today. Again, I never said cost is the definition of a muscle car. I was just trying to point out that vehicle costs have risen as have prices for all consumables thus making these types of cars (new not used) out of reach for some people. Why dont you read a little deeper in to that and see that I am pointed that today shit is more expensive. If your dad was forking out $40 a month on a car that was $3,404 which means even with ZERO % interest he had to have the payment for 91 months. Seriously, 91 months? And before you question my math I was an accountant/financial analyst and can build about any cost model you wish for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
You are right. Not to turn this in to a debate but its the older generation that fucked up the wages of decent jobs in this country and sent them other places. Kill your unions and get the pay where it should be and the country would be better off. That is a fact.
I never said a Muscle car has a definition that includes price. There are trends of prices and consumables that all impact one another so yes, there is an apples to apples comparison its just you cant see it. The reason you and others say it is apples to oranges is because you dont factor in everything, you only use car to car prices and dont look at the big picture. Ever hear of Quantitative Business Analysis? Its used to get cost determinants and other financial aspects that you can use in your home life as well as in the business realm. Same shit....income and outflow of cash. Thats it.....not exactly rocket science.
Damn, TLS... save it for the Debate Forum.
:chuckles:
Sorry, was typing fast in between doing a paper.Quote:
Originally Posted by KahanaReef
It was pretty harsh after I went back and saw what I wrote. lol I do stand behind it but it wasnt meant to be so harsh. In the middle of doing homework. No offense meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
yeah I think you should have directed that to Revnorr82 instead of TLS, I didnt recall him saying anything about that, but I didnt bother going back to look...
Vehix= fail..
Just my .02
To the subject: Buick GN..:hide:
Actually it might have been Revnorr82 that I was referring to. There are so many quotes in here it's getting difficult to find who says what. In any event, it doesn't change anything I've said...Quote:
Originally Posted by justinmc978
Okay I give,,,,what does vehix mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
vehix is the site that OP referenced for this 'list' even though its not a list but rather '11 great muscle cars' in no particular order.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Again, this 'list' was just advertisement to buy new Camaros/Mustangs/Challengers on Vehix..
Ah thanks Justin, that makes sense now. I thought Smittro was making something up again :D
This is a hard question to answer, theres just soo many cars out there.
Anyways, alot of the modern muscle cars like the Z06, ZR1 and Viper easily make the top 11
again though, based on what? what qualifies a car to make the 'top 11 muscle cars'? there cant just be a general list, you can say 'the fastest 11 muscle cars', 'the 11 most affordable muscle cars of their time' or (if you can prove it) 'the 11 most influencial muscle cars' or even some combination of multiple factors based on facts.
otherwise you are ranking them in general terms of what they are, and that is useless, as it will always come down to opinions.
lol! Vehix is an automotive site that puts out stories and reports on cars that are usually mostly based on opinions rather than facts..Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Many times stories are writen by non-car people..
Other than that "Vehix" is a name..
Well then, that would certainly explain the cars on this list then :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Smittro
I, for one, do not think the ZO6, ZR1, or the Viper are muscle cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by nhraformula
They are muscle cars indeed. They are just a different era of muscle that shouldn't be grouped together with classics.
As far as I'm concerned, there are 2 catagories of muscle cars. You have your vintage cars and your modern cars. They both don't work together on a top 10 list. Like I said, they were designed with different ideas and regulations in mind 40 years apart. Vintage muscle has something that modern cars will never capture. Just two different playing fields.
I'll go along with what you said, but not with what I responded to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
Yeah, it makes sense, (to me anyway), and I've seen lists like I've described with modern cars all to their own. There are pleny of modern muscle cars that have been made to make a very lengthy and controversial list on their own without mixing in classic cars...Quote:
Originally Posted by FasstChevys
Starting in 81 when computers were incorporated into vehicles is probably about when I'd say modern takes over. From there (or shortly after) you have your 5.0 fox body mustangs, 3rd gen Fbodies, your turbo buicks, Typhoons and Syclones, LT1's, LS1's, all the way up to your newer stuff like the new hemi's, the new 5.0 mustangs, your Z06 vettes, vipers, all the LS powered vehicles.....
You can see that starts to be a very large list in it's own right. Very hard to catagorize alot of that stuff. I'd hate to be the guy that had to choose.
Okay, who wants to start more controversy and start a new top 20 best with modern muscle cars :D
Instigator! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Firebirdjones
.........:D