2000 Grand Prix 3800 Part Throttle SURGE trans???

I got a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix that you guys have helped A LOT on, THANKS ! ! !
When the wife used to drive it it was diagnosed as having trans issues.
A couple shops said it needed to be rebuilt w/o even seeing it.
Another shop scanned the computer and said solenoids in the trans were sticking.
Those were replaced and it seemed fine for last 30,000 miles. It has over 180,000 on it now.
We have owned it since new though and had a pretty pamapered life.
But when I drive it now, it seems like it does not drop out of OD like I would expect it to.
If it were an old school carb motor and auto, I would think that was the case, or the lock up convertor was not releasing, but that is my old school likeness...
But when I am trying to accelerate or head up a hill at around 2500 rpms say, the tach will start to stary from 2200 to 2800 and the car kind of lugs and surges. Trying to describe as best I can.
About a year and a half ago I cleaned the mass air sensor, replaced the oxygen sensors, and ended up replacing the cat which fixed the SES light and it has ran realy good until now. If anyone thinks anyone of that is related at all, sorry if not. No light now, just the surging. I just give it a lil' more gas, stand on it harder and it takes off revs a lil' higher and all good.

Appreciate any ideas, known issues, or similar scenarios...THANKS again ! ! !

Sounds like torque converter lockup solenoid is messed up. I have a 98 and it does the same thing. Go and check out grandprixforums.net There is a world of info on that site, and almost everyone on there has had that prob with there car.

Will do THANKS

Well, after reading all of the stuff on GP forums...I am thinking the TCC solenoid may be cause of my symptoms.
I am going to try and short the battery cables to clear codes and see what that does.
Also read that cleaning the MAF sensor. I still have a can of cleaner.
I also have 1/2 can of SeaFoam Trans Medic that I was told may have helped free up the other solenoids that ended up getting replaced about 30,000 miles ago. Back then I dropped the pan, changed fluid and fiter. Magnet had a VERY slight film of fuzz and fluid was still red and nice looking. But code kept showing up. I think that was like a 2-3 shift error. I am not sure if the torque convertor solenoid got replaced back then or not. I have got about 180,000+ miles now. Good except for the surge, fluttering during part throttle acceleration troubles.
I will be checking for vac. leaks around the intake too...
But,
Anything else I might be missing?
Anything to make the trans shop aware of if I gotta go back?
THANKS!!!!!

Well...if and when you replace the solenoid, and the issues go away, the trans shop might not find anything. HOWEVER...you can take the car back to the shop to have a tech look the car over once you complete the job and see if the tech finds anything else.

I did the crossing the battery cable/code clearing deal, tossed 1/2 can of TransMedic SeaFoam in there and just about the same if not slightly worse. I am going to dig out my receipt from the trans shop and see if they did the TCC solenoid, give 'em a call, and see about getting it scanned at least. Doesn't sound like there is anything else to try or do w/o dropping the trans....is there?
THANKS AGAIN!

The surging keeps getting worse now. Trying to decide what to do now. I pulled out my receipts from the trans shop. Over a year and a half and 50k miles ago. Guess I cannot complain too much since the "band aid" got me that much more use of the car (now @185+k miles). But...
Think I will ask the wife to take it back to the trans shop and ask them to scan it again. They said code # 1811. Their estimate originally said that they found faulty pressure control solenoid which is what I think they replaced in the trans. Also showed MAF not reading properly and recommend replacing sensor and connectors. So ... since I never did anything besides spray the MAF sensor with aerosol cleaner a couple times, that may be totally f'd now and need replacing or the torque convertor control like I had been reading. Gotta believe getting it scanned will tell me more, but thought I would see if there is anything special to ask the trans guys about, have them check specifically for, or "extras" or specifics to look at or repair IF the trans does have to get dropped again. (Being reminded of the MAF sensor has me hoping that is it, of course, but just in case). Appreciate anything I might need to know. Will check in again once the scan happens (I know I am just guessing until then). THANKS as always ! ! !

I see as I look closer at my old receipt...part # was 33946 for the pressure control solenoid that got replaced.
Guessing that is different than the one which controls the torque convertor???
If it is, I guess that is why I am sstill fearful the trans needs to come back out again, if the TCC trouble and this are one in the same...maybe I will be lucky (luckier any ways) and focus more on the MAF sensor...

Honestly, you got a good life out of the trans. Like I said, I have a 98 that has 199,000 on it (original trans) and I don't have 3rd gear anymore. It's been this way for almost 7 months now I would say. The trans in these cars are not the best. People are usually shocked when I tell them my car still has the original trans in it, seeing how they usually go out at about 150ish. Be lucky you have got this far with it haha.

Not trying to bring you down any, but my car started out the same way yours is now. Except mine would surge and buck in 3rd gear, guess that's why I don't have 3rd gear anymore? I know mine needs replaced, but I'm going to see how far I can make it. It may last another 20,000 miles or it may go out today. I know it will leave me stranded one day but hey, that's what insurance and free towing is for right?

As far as the tcs solenoid, I don't think it's the same as the tcc solenoid. I could be wrong. Your maf could have something to do with it also. Try unplugging it first to see if the car runs any different. If you unplug it and the car still runs the same, then you need a new maf. If it runs like crap when you unplug it then it's fine.
You would know if it was bad right off the bat tho, mine was bad and sitting at idle, the rpm's would bounce between 400 and 1100 rpm.

What did you use to clean it with?

The wife bought this car brand new so it has had a relatively easy life. I got it handed down as my daily driver just about a year ago. Mostly highway and ... hhhmmm try to be nice to it. I have tried to keep up on the maintenance since she got it (and I paid for it). As soon as I called trans shops, they all said it was junk and needed rebuild replace right away since the year model it was and miles on it. But so far, pretty good. The trans was replaced just after she got the car under warranty. Maybe there was some upgrade or improvment way back then.
I know that it could be pretty much anything until I get it looked at, but will try the unplugging of the MAF and see what that tells me. THANKS. Autozone or NAPA actually sells a MAR sensor cleaner. I had never heard of it until I sent the wife to buy a new one and the counter person recomended trying it first. Said that they had 50/50 feedback from customers that had tried it, but for a few bucks may as well. I did try a new MAF sensor back then w/o anything getting better.
We'll see...
Thanks

Here you go man, This is some good reading for the p1811 code you have. I got this off TEP (Triple Edge Performance) website. This guy is a the 4t65e god haha. Basically, he knows his shit!

Code P1811 is hands down the most common trouble code and commonly asked about problem. This code can set for numorous reasons and often by a failing pressure control, BUT on higher mileage transmissions this is often not the case or at least is not the only cause to the problem. With that said it is important to understand that replacing the pressure control solenoid is NOT a guaranteed fix!

This code will set when the pcm/tcm detects excessively long shift times. For every shift the pcm/tcm watches how long the shift takes to complete in milliseconds. If the shift times are over roughly the .06 second timeframe and the pcm/tcm tries to compensate for this by raising line pressure and still does not see acceptable shift times after a few shift cycle it will trigger code P1811. When this happens it puts the transmission in a max line pressure condition to help protect the transmission against excessive slippage and burnt clutches. While this condition is present you will feel harsh shifts, some vehicles more agressive than others, and you will also hear a whine noise similar to what a power steering pump that is low on fluid will sound like. You can shut the engine off for a brief moment and restart the vehicle and it will feel normal again until a few shift cycles of excessive shift times and the cycle will repeat itself. This typically only happens after you have driven for a short while and the transmission and its fluid warms up.

Some common causes to this problem are-

-Poor working PCS (Pressure Control Solenoid), also called EPC or Force Motor
-Excessive clutch clearances
-Poor functioning accumulator system
-Worn internal seals and sealing rings
-Excessive valve body wear
-Dirty MAF sensor resulting in lower commanded line pressure


Due to the list of potential problems it is difficult to suggest just one or two items to cure code P1811 as everything above and many other parts and variables all play a role in the effect. Unfortunately because of the orientation of this transmission and how it sits in a vehicle it requires quite a bit of labor to access the pressure control solenoid as well as the valve body. One thing popular to try before diving into an expensive and labor enduring repair is to install a shift improver kit such as the Transgo SK4T65E shift kit that we offer. This kit includes a new set of accumulator springs and spacers to limit accumulator piston travel which greatly speeds up the time it takes to apply a clutch, which hand in hand will shorten the shift time. These kits are not made to create firm or harsh feeling shifts but to help speed up shift timing and keep what the pcm/tcm wants to see in check to prevent code P1811 from triggering. As mentioned above higher mileage plays a big role in how this transmission works and also means you should replace parts with caution and have the understanding that there is no 100% guaranteed fix to this problem without tearing into the entire transmission to address and upgrade the problem areas.

I have a feeling the whole surge issue is due to a faulty MAF sensor. Its a pretty common failure on these cars. It can also affect how the trans shifts and behaves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cutlass

I have a feeling the whole surge issue is due to a faulty MAF sensor. Its a pretty common failure on these cars. It can also affect how the trans shifts and behaves.

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Yes it is, and very expensive to replace.

The MAF sensor is easier and cheaper than a trans rebuild though right...?
Or should I should I stop hoping for that?
This weekend I will try the cleaner again, unhooking and seeing if it makes any difference, then go from there.
The trans shop's diagnosis (over a year ago) said to replace the wiring harness(pigtail) too. Is that a common failure?

THANKS again for all the help ! ! !

bstuby, what does your car do w/o 3rd gear? still driveable?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rschap1

The MAF sensor is easier and cheaper than a trans rebuild though right...?
Or should I should I stop hoping for that?
This weekend I will try the cleaner again, unhooking and seeing if it makes any difference, then go from there.
The trans shop's diagnosis (over a year ago) said to replace the wiring harness(pigtail) too. Is that a common failure?

THANKS again for all the help ! ! !

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The harness is not common but certainly possible. I think the GM MAF is about $250ish and the are two tamper-proof torx screws holding it on. Double whammy, I know (expensive part and special tool to replace it.)

$250 :ughlaugh: Go to your local auto parts store and get a Cardone for 170ish brand new. If you don't feel like spending that much money, then get a BWD reman one for around $100 plus core charge. Same warranty as the rest of them. I'm sure you already have the T20 bit for the screws since you said you cleaned the maf, so no loss there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rschap1

bstuby, what does your car do w/o 3rd gear? still driveable?

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Yup, drive it 60 miles every day. It goes from 1st,2nd,4th. Kinda annoying at times, I asked around about it and I guess it's not that common of an issue. Said something about it being a sprag issue? But basically my 3rd gear is toast from what I gathered. Which doesn't surprise me since 3rd was slipping for a awhile before it went out.

I do have the tamper proof torx bits, hopefully this week I will try the unplug trick, pull the sensor, spray it down with the cleaner, try and get in at the throttle body blade too since it sticks when you first apply accelerator too. If no different, I will trade rides with the wife for a day and ask her to visit the trans shop again for a scan...
Come on MAF sensor (at least I can handle that myself).

THANKS gain for the help(s) ! ! !

Let us know how you make out.

I finally pulled out the MAF sensor last night. Took it out and un plugged it, started the car like that, and it waivered in RPMs and bogged back and forth slightly for just a few seconds. Then it smoothed out and seemed to run better-smoother. Sprayed down the sensor with CRC Mass Airflow Sensor cleaner and re-installed. Driving to work this morning the surge seemed just about the same. Overall the surging seems to be getting a pinch worse all the time. Next week I will switch rides with the wife and ask her to head to the trans shop and get a scan. I will also get her to bring along some of the info I copied out of here and see what codes are showing and what the trans tech says...I am still hoping not too expensive, fingers crossed anyways.

We still have not swapped vehicles so the wife can take the Grand Prix to the trans shop yet, but hopefully real soon.
I was just wondering if all signs do point to the MAF sensor, is there a way to test them other than just replace it?
When the pigtail wiring harness connector was recommended, I looked that all over and it appears fine, but I would hate to buy an expensive sensor when its a bad connection, vise versa, or something else...you know.
Such a thing as a MAF sensor tester or can a multimeter tell you anything??
THANKS once again ! ! ! !

Also...
Just in case I do need to buy a sensor...I read that Cardone is a good one?
I see some cheaper ones on Ebay, found Cardones a few places for about $130-$140.
Prices seem to span all the way from $50-$60 up towards $300 almost.
Any actual experience with any of these? Good Bad? Cardone the cheapest "good"?
Probably looking to keep driving the car 6 more months or so if longevity comes in to play...
AGAIN, THANKS ! ! !

MAF sensors are funny things. You definitely want to get a good one. I wouldn't buy a $50 one and I wouldn't be surprised if the Cardone one didn't work to great either. But I don't have experience with the Cardone brand MAF. Maybe you could find a used oem one in a junkyard? And cut the connector off at the same time in case you need it.

oh and BTW, there isn't a good way to test them other then datalogging with a scan tool or a tuning software, like HPtuners.

Can't really speak to well for the cardone ones either. I put a BWD in mine, actually put 2 in. First one had a defect I guess, because it ran worse than before. Took it back and they exchanged it for a different one. Haven't had any problems with it yet. Been on the car for about a year or more. The BWD's are cheaper than cardone, but there reaman's, so there is a chance to get a shitty one

Wife will be taking the car in for scan later today. Find out some more soon...

Trans shop said no transmission codes shown:)
They recommended replacing the MAF sensor "pigtail" connector, then the sensor itself.
The wife wrote down MAS circuit fault, I think that she meant MAF.
Planing on looking at the connectors, wiring and connections this weekend.
If I gotta, I see NAPA listed a connector (pic).
Then shopping for a sensor if unable to fix the old, or the new doesn't help.
Still cannot believe the range of prices on sensors. Autozone and NAPA each have some listed for $140 or so.
May go that route just because if I do drop it in and its a bad sensor off the get go, I should be warrantied. Of course, hopefully. We'll see...I got a busy weekend of learning to MIG weld aluminum, kid's football, neice's b-day party, assembling new grill, ah, you get the idea.
Sorry to bore yas, but I will try and tell results since you all been helping so much!

:thinkin:

Looked the connector and wiring over last night.
Sprayed contact cleaner on the MAF sensor's "prongs" and into the connections of the weathertite plug end.
Same results as I drove in this morning.
Thinking I am going to try an Ebay $60 sensor...Autozone and NAPA are both about $100 more, so I may take a chance and see how it goes.
If that doesn't get it, I may replace the wiring connector/pigtail harness from NAPA $31.49. Looks like those have about 6-8" of wiring attached. I did not see any thing wrong looking but I guess IF the Ebay sensor doesn't fix it, that would be my last option.

What kind of condition is you o2 sensors and cat's in? You could have a o2 sensor failing, they cause all sorts of stuff to go wrong when they do. Including a screwing MAF.

Replaced the cat with a Magna Flow just about a year ago. It was "clogged" and throwing its own codes then.
I replaced both O2 sensors before that just to make sure that was not the trouble.
Wish I would have just bit the bullet earlier and did the cat. I kinda feared replacing it, but that went WAY easier and cheaper than I had imagined. Got the "direct fit" cat for $120. Then sold the old one to a recycler on Craigs List for $60. It was not a perfect fit. The downstream O2 sensor is aimed at the passenger's side of the car instead of straight up. Obviously it was cheaper and easier for them to not put a "dip" in the pipe. I had to trim the heat sheild a lil', and used a worm gear hose clamp around the rubber o-ring donut mount to pull it closer to driver's side. For a total of $60 maybe a 1/2 hour to hour install, I was happy enough. It did fix the code where the O2 sensors did not. So anyways... those are fairly fresh compared with the rest of the car.

USPS shows that the new sensor was to be delivered today.
Looks like tonight I will be doing a couple oil changes and then install that.
FINGERS CROSSED!!!

Just curious... did you post this problem on grandprixforums.net? You would get tons of help is you posted this in the trans section.

Let us know what happens OP.

Dropped the new Ebay MAF sensor in last night after doing oil change.
Drove to the gym this morning and was not 100% right off and I worried, but the more I drove the better it acted.
On trip home NO more surge:)
I think I will unhook the battery for a few hours, and let it start from scratch...
It was a real treat no chugging :)

Hopefully that was it.

I did post all of this initially on the Grand Prix site. Did not get too much back. Sure not as much here.
I will post results there soon, just to share.

THANKS again to everyone here BIG HELP ! ! !

That's great news. It may take a few days of driving for the Fuel Trims to relearn but sounds like its already getting better!!

WHat a dream driving into work today compared to what it was with old MAF sensor.
No chug, surge, hesitation, or stumbling.
I got pretty used to feathering the throttle and trying to jump past the bad spots:)
Wife drove a short trip yesterday, stopped to shop, then when driving home said the SES light came on.
I again un hooked the battery and let it sit for about a half hour before reconnecting it.
I am guessing (HOPING) that just re learning set something off and it will be OK.
I did not see any light today and my ride is 60 miles mostly highway.
If I see it on as I head home I will stop into Autozone and see if they can give me a code.
It sure did run and drive LOTS better this morning though. Wife said it drove fine for her too, just the light on.
THANKS again for all the info, and I will post a link to this thread today at the Grand Prix forums
:)

Is the intake bellows loose at all? That could trip a light, if it's not the code already stored in the PCM.

DARN IT!!
Thought I had it made yesterday. Car runs GREAT. Much better throttle response. I like it!!
BUT after about 200 miles of driving, the SERVICE ENGINE SOON light lit again:(
Went to Autozone and got it scanned. I was told it showed P0171.
Said the front bank of cylinders was showing a lean condition.
Said that it could be MAF sensor, fuel pressure, O2 sensor, ignition misfire, or fuel injector trouble...
Wondering what is best to do next????
I never thought that there was an O2 sensor per bank, I had replaced the rear near firewall and the downstream one.
The front one (which I never even noticed before and it was never mentioned, but I guess if it can throw codes specific to front and/or rear there must be 2) is original to the car.
Wondering if un hooking battery, touching positive and negative cables together and doing that "reset" is worthwhile or not...?
Good or bad idea? Would doing this help clear trouble codes or get things back on track?
OR does it sound like there is another real trouble...?
MAF sensor (NEW) suspect? I am thinking that both front and rear codes would show then, right?
AGAIN THANKS ! ! !

I am spewing my tale on the GP site now too...

2000 Grand Prix 3800 Part Throttle SURGE trans??? - General Tech Discussion

Generally you want to replace both right and left bank .02's @ the same time..

Is the MAF an OEM replacement? If not, it could be junk too..

A faulty rear 02. or (cat 02) will not effect performance, but will throw an efficiency code..

Plastic intake? I am amazed @ 180k you have'nt had issues with it yet..

A leak there can also cause a lean condition as well as other issues, which I suspect was likely the problem in the first place..

The Grand Prix site has me looking towards some vacuum lines. I had trouble with the same before. I had cobbled them up by crazy gluing the hard plastic lines (hoses) into their rubber "t" connector. I had screwed with it again when I installed the new (yep aftermarket-as cheap as I could find Ebay) MAF sensor. I imagine that it could be bad too even new, but the car sure does run and drive LOTS better since putting it in. Hoping for the vac line to do it, but...ya never know.

My 2000 GP GT 3.8 only had the upper (firewall o2) and the lower after cat o2 for a total of 2. I think you have a MAF that is not an OEM exact match throwing lean codes. Same thing happens to all of us who bought the SLP MAF for our f-bodies looking for power and only getting lean codes until we swap back the original.

Yeah crazy glue prolly was'nt the best choice..lol Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SSTODD

My 2000 GP GT 3.8 only had the upper (firewall o2) and the lower after cat o2 for a total of 2. I think you have a MAF that is not an OEM exact match throwing lean codes. Same thing happens to all of us who bought the SLP MAF for our f-bodies looking for power and only getting lean codes until we swap back the original.

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You are correct... However some 3800's have more than just 2...

I mentioned that on the GP site too...I had never remembered seeing an O2 sensor besides the one near firewall and the other downstream from the cat...but when the Autozone clerk said the code reads front bank lean, I figured there had to be an individual sensor for each 1/2 of the engine...strange phrasing for the error code. I will have to see what the Ebay seller says about their sensor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rschap1

The Grand Prix site has me looking towards some vacuum lines. I had trouble with the same before. I had cobbled them up by crazy gluing the hard plastic lines (hoses) into their rubber "t" connector. I had screwed with it again when I installed the new (yep aftermarket-as cheap as I could find Ebay) MAF sensor. I imagine that it could be bad too even new, but the car sure does run and drive LOTS better since putting it in. Hoping for the vac line to do it, but...ya never know.

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When my hard plastic lines on my 87 Z24 broke, I bought vacuum hose and "spliced" them onto the broken ends of the lines and fitted them into the rubber elbows. Mine broke while I replaced the lower intake manifold gaskets.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rschap1

The Grand Prix site has me looking towards some vacuum lines. I had trouble with the same before. I had cobbled them up by crazy gluing the hard plastic lines (hoses) into their rubber "t" connector. I had screwed with it again when I installed the new (yep aftermarket-as cheap as I could find Ebay) MAF sensor. I imagine that it could be bad too even new, but the car sure does run and drive LOTS better since putting it in. Hoping for the vac line to do it, but...ya never know.

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Sure sounds like those vacuum lines could be a good suspect. Also could be the MAF sensor. You're 2000 doesn't have a front O2 sensor according to my Service manual. It only has one precat O2 sensor in the rear manifold. So P0171 means the engine is running lean. It doesn't mean Bank 1 is lean, because it doesn't know.

Well...the SES light has come and gone. Twice scanned, same code now.

Looked over all my possibilities. The hoses and lines seem to be good, or at least same as they have been for nearly a year. Contacted my Ebay seller of the MAF sensor...got this response when I reported my troubles since installing their part...



"We introduced this product this month, and your part is the first to fail out of few dozens we sold. It's really a small sample to draw any conclusions. We will mail you a replacement by this afternoon, along with a prepaid label to return the defective unit."



Did not think I could ask for any better response than that. I started thinking that even though the car ran crappy with it's surging, it did not have the SES light on until the new sensor. I will try another one like this and see if it persists. I then asked seller,

"Will the new one have different calibration or specs?
I see that you also have refurbished units. Do these have a better track record?"



Just in case the next one does same due too it's design, specs, or whatever.

Wondered if a different sensor would be needed...got this:



"The refurbished ones are on back order. I don't think we have had any issues with these.

We sent you a replacement with a returned label. If it doesn't function as it's supposed to, I can get you an estimated delivery date for the refurbished ones, and see if we could get you a good deal on a brand new unit through our supplies.



Seems like they are being as helpful as can be. Hoping that sooner or later a different MAF sensor fixes all of this:)

Talk about "stand up" guys. They sound pretty awesome to me. :yup:

Its been a few days and I have not seen the replacment sensor yet, BUT

It has been 5 days and over 400+ miles w/o the SES light on and still running good.

Is it possible it just takes a lil' while for the controller to adjust to the new sensor?

I had wondered why a lean alarm too? Wouldn't it, shouldn't it just richen the mix?

I am a little puzzled (as usual) but wondering if all is good now, or not?

Should I mess with it,or leave it alone?

The SES light did go off by itself while driving, it wasn't me pulling the battery cables again or anything...did it just "fix itself" I mean adjust for the new MAF sensor signal??



THANKS for everything:)

If I remember correctly, the OBD 2 cars will turn the SES light off after a few key cycles(turning the car on) but the code will be stored in the PCM. I also believe that these cars have to be driven a certain distance to re-learn a new sensor. Like when an idle air control (IAC) sensor is replaced. The vehicle has to be driven, I THINK, 5 miles at 40 MPH.

Well, I had been directed to quite a bunch of threads revolving around the P0171 code. Both on the grandprix forums and gearchatter.com. I have came up with an all sunshine happy happy scenario for all of it:)
Guessing, I mean hoping, that it just took some time and a few cycles/rides for the controls to adjust to the new sensor's input. Read how the baseline fuel maps get trimmed according to what the sensors tell. Thinking that the SES light originally came on because I did not disconnect the battery and clear codes and trims when I installed the new MAF sensor. Then later after the light did come on I did disconnect power. Then when running from the baseline some trimming was still needed. Once those trims were made, and enough cycles happened to make those adjustments, the lights went off. That is what I am hoping.
Feel free to let me know if I am way off base or missed something. Car is still running good now and light is off, so I am telling myself all is good.
Wishing I had a scan tool to be sure, but:(
VERY much appreciate all the help, again!!!!

You can get a scanner from your local parts store from $20 and up.

$20, really?
I had an older one for my 1990's era Fords, but thought newer ones like I would need are more like $250...
Maybe I better shop a lil' more.
THANKS

Well I gotta ask now...
Probably should be a whole new thread but...
suggestions for a cheap scan tool?
Good, bad, what to look for, what to avoid?
Ebay searched and saw some OBD2 (I am guessing that is the correct set up, right?) to USB cables and interfaces.
Using a laptop easier or better? worse? Also saw some adapters, mostly wireless, to ipods and iphones. I could steal my kids ipod I guess. Good bad?
I hate to go too cheap really, but that is what I am all about, my old Ford tool had me counting long bleeps and short flashes then referencing a list. Never was real sure if I had missed a beat or what was going on.
I don't think that I need the fanciest or most expensive detailed unit out there, but it would be nice to see a read out not count long and short led blips.
Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rschap1

Well I gotta ask now...
Probably should be a whole new thread but...
suggestions for a cheap scan tool?
Good, bad, what to look for, what to avoid?
Ebay searched and saw some OBD2 (I am guessing that is the correct set up, right?) to USB cables and interfaces.
Using a laptop easier or better? worse? Also saw some adapters, mostly wireless, to ipods and iphones. I could steal my kids ipod I guess. Good bad?
I hate to go too cheap really, but that is what I am all about, my old Ford tool had me counting long bleeps and short flashes then referencing a list. Never was real sure if I had missed a beat or what was going on.
I don't think that I need the fanciest or most expensive detailed unit out there, but it would be nice to see a read out not count long and short led blips.
Thanks

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I bought the Innova 3140 for under $200 online, it does obd1 and obd2 multiple vehicles. I like it so far but would like the more expensive models that also read ABS and TRANS codes.

I really wish I had remembered what my old manager used. His was a palm-sized code reader and I saw it in a parts store for $30.

It is a code scanner and reader.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rschap1

Well I gotta ask now...
Probably should be a whole new thread but...
suggestions for a cheap scan tool?
Good, bad, what to look for, what to avoid?
Ebay searched and saw some OBD2 (I am guessing that is the correct set up, right?) to USB cables and interfaces.
Using a laptop easier or better? worse? Also saw some adapters, mostly wireless, to ipods and iphones. I could steal my kids ipod I guess. Good bad?
I hate to go too cheap really, but that is what I am all about, my old Ford tool had me counting long bleeps and short flashes then referencing a list. Never was real sure if I had missed a beat or what was going on.
I don't think that I need the fanciest or most expensive detailed unit out there, but it would be nice to see a read out not count long and short led blips.
Thanks

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Do you just want a trouble code reader and clearer? or a scan tool you can read engine and trans data?
Those little code readers cammed is talking about are very handy to have but don't give you data. I have one and use it 10x more then my scantool that shows data. The best scan tool you can get for GM cars is the Tech2, next (IMHO) would be the scan tool that comes with HPTuners, and then the rest are all about the same. Lugging a laptop around as a scan tool is a little bit of a pain in the butt but does offer some advantages like a big colorful screen to look at and possibly faster data readout.

Well, back to AZ...

:(

Got a refund from Ebay for the cheap MAF sensor.

The last couple of days things have gotten a little worse.

The SES light has been intermitten. On for a day and a half, off for the next day or 2.

Yesterday and this morning the surge hit a little bit again.

AND for the first time since new sensor, I had the car idling for about 10 minutes while chit chatting with a neighbor. Car got warm and then idle speed increased.

It idled 500-600 rpms more than usual and when I went to pump the accelerator it stayed high and took 15-20 seconds to slow to normal. Kinda scary. It reved more than it should have, like a sticky gas pedal. Thinking that may have been 1st period of extended idle with new sensor it things went wacky. :(

Plan is to hit AZ again tonight, get scanned if light is still on, if same error P0171, I am going to take my refund and put it towards one of their refurbished Cardone models and try that. AGAIN fingers crossed! I will ask and price what they sell for scan tools too.

Same code was shown, picked up their refurbished MAF sensor and saw all Actron scanners at Autozone.
There were 5 or 6 models from $59 to 299.
Didn't look to closely at the features tried to hurry through there.
$139 for the sensor and a $87 core charge...makes me wonder what they do to refurbish these...?
We'll see how it works when I install this evening. Guessing it would be best to unhook the battery cable, cross them, and then install the new sensor rather than just unplug the old and plug in the new like I did before. Start at the baseling...right?

You'd probably benefit most from the cheapest one which just reads and clears trouble codes.
Clearing the computer isn't a bad idea. I'm not positive disconnecting the battery will do it but it could/should.

Thanks !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cutlass

You'd probably benefit most from the cheapest one which just reads and clears trouble codes.
Clearing the computer isn't a bad idea. I'm not positive disconnecting the battery will do it but it could/should.

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Nope, iirc once a code is logged, it will return untill corrected then cleared or a few driving cycles after the repair..

I will keep that in mind and give it some time if need be.
Thanks for that too ! ! !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smittro

Nope, iirc once a code is logged, it will return untill corrected then cleared or a few driving cycles after the repair..

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Yeah, I always use a scan tool to clear codes and reset fuel trims, so I'm not sure if disconnecting the battery resets either of those things anymore. Some DIY'ers swear by it, but I'm not sure how well it works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cutlass

Yeah, I always use a scan tool to clear codes and reset fuel trims, so I'm not sure if disconnecting the battery resets either of those things anymore. Some DIY'ers swear by it, but I'm not sure how well it works.

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Yeah I've also heard about touching battery terminals together to clear codes before but never had the guts to try it..lol

I guess if it does work you could do an idle relearn..

I would be worried about shorting the PCM, for fear of electronic componets that could be holding a residual charge..

A couple winters ago when I had my 3800-II top end apart I had the PCM disconnected for a whole week and the misfire code was still there..

I had to force (flogged the throttle) it to throw a code in the first place for a SES light because under normal driving I had no light..

But as soon as I went back to normal driving the SES light would go out.

This lead me to think I had a bad head gasket starting or an intake gasket leak.. Turned into a real head scratcher..

After ~$1000 in new heads and a top end gasket set, and replacing a coil pack (which ended up being all that was wrong with it :suicide: ).

It still showed an intermittent misfire code had been logged, even though the SES light had gone out..

Found this out after I got everthing back togther and running great again..

I ran it down to have it scanned one more time for peace of mind and like I was saying the code was logged..

So I had it cleared @ advance auto..

I should add that the SES light for the intermittent misfire was blinking and not steady on..

Prior to that when my cat died, I had a steady SES light..

After replacing the cat, and a few driving cycles it went out and the code cleared showing no logging of the issue..

Sorry forgot to mention that..:hide:

The way the thing runs after pulling the battery cables and crossing them it seems like it must adjust or remove the trims, or so I guess. It sure runs good right afterwards. Maybe the codes stay shown but the trims get removed...?? I am a couple days into my Autozone Cardone sensor. Runs good again and seems OK. Time will tell. I did remove and cross the battery cables. No SES light, no surge, and running good. Some kinda noise the wife noticed the other day, sounded like something rubbing on the tire when turning hard right...think I may have misplaced a plastic splash shield or something I dropped a little 5/16" socket when replacing the battery cables and had to feel around under the crank pulleys. Hoping that is something simple like that anyways. Fingers crossed again ! ! !

Well...

MAF sensor held up since my last post there...
Now surge is back.
I pulled the sensor yesterday to give it a shot of MAF sensor cleaner and it looks like the filler/sealer for the solid state circuitry was melted and oozing out of the sensor.
Like the rest of the US, we had a month of record high temps. A week ago I was caught in a traffic jam and the car got as hot as it had seen in years. Gage just read around 205 so it didn't over heat, but I am thinking it cooked the sensors insides right out of it...

Anyways, I have a new one on it's way being shipped.
Seeing the aluminum backside of the sensor and the machined surface it mounts to makes me wonder if there is supposed to any "grease" for heat transfer there???
My old Ford 5.0's ignition modules used to need some kinda heat transfer die-electric grease between their back sides and the distributor body they mounted to.
Should the MAF sensor have anything like this smeared on it before installed???

THANKS ! ! !

Could'nt hurt.. Just don't go nuts with it,, a little is okay.

This "cleaner" you spoke of using,, what is it,, is/was it CRC, or is it some other type of cleaner?

On the heating up part, coolant could need topped off, may need a thermostat, and/or coolant system flush,
worst case water pump is showing wear.

Did you go with and OEM MAF or after market?

Yep. It was the CRC brand cleaner.
Tried this before I replaced the sensor a little less than a year ago.
Still had the rest of the can in the garage.
Attachment 24483

I was a little low on coolant, you are correct. Actually had the light come on yesterday morning for the first time ever. It is also time for a flush and refil again too. Plan is to do it this fall.
I went with an aftermarket MAF sensor due to cost. Planing on selling the car within a couple months, so trying to save the $$.

THANKS !!!

Sounds good.. An OEM MAF would be better but since you're selling it won't hurt.

As usual
THANKS !!!

Appreciate the help and tips

:)