New dark age for muscle cars coming?

[2000LS1Bird]

OK back ON TOPIC,

Nissan is about to roll out the new GTR, the Corvette ZR1 is coming with its supercharged 7.0 liter goodness, and we still have new EVO and STi models rolling out along with everything from Hyundai Azera's to twin-turbo equiped Beemers getting faster every year, and some of you think we are about to enter into a dark age of performance?

I don't think so.

This thread started with concerns coming from GM execs... well THOSE are the guys who are still living in the dark ages. The other car manufacturers continue to make steady improvements every year, with every model, not just the flagship two-seater.

And GM continues to lose market share.
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[shady milkman]

OK back ON TOPIC,

Nissan is about to roll out the new GTR, the Corvette ZR1 is coming with its supercharged 7.0 liter goodness, and we still have new EVO and STi models rolling out along with everything from Hyundai Azera's to twin-turbo equiped Beemers getting faster every year, and some of you think we are about to enter into a dark age of performance?

I don't think so.

This thread started with concerns coming from GM execs... well THOSE are the guys who are still living in the dark ages. The other car manufacturers continue to make steady improvements every year, with every model, not just the flagship two-seater.

And GM continues to lose market share.
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the zr1 isnt 7.0..its 6.3

[2000LS1Bird]

the zr1 isnt 7.0..its 6.3

Honestly I could care less, because its not an affordable car for anyone I know. Its just like the Ford GT, sweet as hell, but not anything I'll ever get to drive.

GM needs to wake up and start putting out some shit people want to buy and can afford.

[Firebirdjones]

Honestly I could care less, because its not an affordable car for anyone I know. Its just like the Ford GT, sweet as hell, but not anything I'll ever get to drive.

GM needs to wake up and start putting out some shit people want to buy and can afford.

Ya I agree,,,,as far as I'm concerned GM still doesn't have any decent rear wheel drive V8 cars,,,,I don't include the vette (even though I own an older one) because it just doesn't fit the criteria that I use to justify such a car.

And this new ZR1 coming out is even worse as far as the money aspect is concerned. I hope GM comes out with something soon, because Ford ran away with the market a few years ago,,,and Chrysler's Challenger looks very interesting,,,although price might be another issue.
Chevrolets new camaro from what I have seen so far does nothing for me,,,as far as I'm concerned GM is still dead, they will have to do better than that.

[pewterzron]

I am pretty sure most of us here cant buy the new ZR1. The new challanger looks awesome and I really would not mind buying one, but i read some people have already ordered theirs and the price will be through the roof. I bet you they will go for over 60k at the dealers. No thank you. And the new CAMARO, YOU CAN KEEP IT. Looks like SHIT. I had a 69Z, I dont like the new camaro at all. Thank goodness for my 02Z28. Gonna keep it for a long time. Exec's at gm are very stupid in my opinion.

Why didnt GM make the new camaro just like the 69? Dodge is doing it to the Challanger!!! If they did, I would have went out and bought one right away. Dumb ass execs at GM.

[Firebirdjones]

I am pretty sure most of us here cant buy the new ZR1. The new challanger looks awesome and I really would not mind buying one, but i read some people have already ordered theirs and the price will be through the roof. I bet you they will go for over 60k at the dealers. No thank you. And the new CAMARO, YOU CAN KEEP IT. Looks like SHIT. I had a 69Z, I dont like the new camaro at all. Thank goodness for my 02Z28. Gonna keep it for a long time. Exec's at gm are very stupid in my opinion.

Why didnt GM make the new camaro just like the 69? Dodge is doing it to the Challanger!!! If they did, I would have went out and bought one right away. Dumb ass execs at GM.

I agree,,,,I love the challenger, very retro. I understand most orders are filled for the first year addition,,,that tells you something.

I also like the current mustang, also very retro. Looks good to me, with stripes it reminds me of the old 65-66 shelby GT-350 cars.

Now you would think GM would follow suit seeing how well the retro cars are selling. I had 3 69 camaro's over the years and loved everyone of them.
The new camaro doesn't do it justice and looks nothing like a 69 in my opinion. It looks more like some foreign car or space craft.....I agree with you pewterzron,,,,if it looked more retro my name would be on the list waiting.

I like the new vettes, and the ZR1 coming is cool, but to be honest if I had that much dispossable income I wouldn't spend it on a car per say,,,

[67CamaroRSSS]

The Clintons own a muscle car. A 60 something mustang.

Musclecar? Since when is a 200cid inline 6 cylinder car a musclecar?

[pewterzron]

Amen brother. Glad to hear someone out there agrees with me. I just came back from the world of wheels at McCormick Place here in Chicago. I was DROOLING over the old 67-69 camaros. I was talking to the guy who owned a 69Z for about an hour. OH WELL.

I should put up my 02 Z at barrett jackson and ask 75k for it, what the hell it was the last year made, maybe some fool would buy it for that much.

[Firebirdjones]

Amen brother. Glad to hear someone out there agrees with me. I just came back from the world of wheels at McCormick Place here in Chicago. I was DROOLING over the old 67-69 camaros. I was talking to the guy who owned a 69Z for about an hour. OH WELL.

I should put up my 02 Z at barrett jackson and ask 75k for it, what the hell it was the last year made, maybe some fool would buy it for that much.

Well I don't think those days are too far off my friend. Since the 4th gens have come to an end,,,the more desirable models,,,like convertables, SS's and WS6's will be the collectable muscle cars in years to come. Some are approaching 10 years old now,,,,at 25 they become historical,,,hard to believe isn't it????? Eventually you will see them rolling accross Barrett Jackson and saying,,,,hey I remember those cars when they were new,,,much like I am doing now with the current muscle rolling accross there And I think we all can agree the prices that Barret Jackson is fetching for those cars has made them unobtainable for most people. I won't sell my old school stuff, I still enjoy them, and replacing them would be nearly impossible now. Will 4th gens reach the same status???? who knows.

Although it remains to be seen whether a 4th gen will fetch that kind of money,,,I am sure in the years to come you will start to see a few roll accross there,,,more than likely the special editions first like the Berger cars and such.....and then it will trickle down.

Buy one now while you can,,,,and hang onto what you have.

[JimmyGTO]

Musclecar? Since when is a 200cid inline 6 cylinder car a musclecar?

Maybe I used "musclecar" out of context, but the 1967 mustang six clylinder automatic convertible was still a gas guzzler in it's day. Maybe 12-14 miles per gallon!

[ScarletBegonias]

Muscle cars will make a come back.

If they are electric, fine whatever. As long as they move, haul and speed.

Sides, maybe we'll simply switch to diesel.

[Firebirdjones]

Muscle cars will make a come back.

If they are electric, fine whatever. As long as they move, haul and speed.

Sides, maybe we'll simply switch to diesel.

Man I sure hope not.

[ScarletBegonias]

diesel engines are being used in the le mans. they're actually really nice engines. diesel doesn't automatically equal slow ya know. lol.

[SAGGIN]

That new ZR1 600 HP blown vette was on TV the other day and they mentioned it only got 10 mpg Misinformation maybe? Doesn't matter though,,,since the predicted price tag is around $100,000,,,if you can afford that you can afford the gas.

As far as death for the muscle car? Not for me. Maybe for some. I really don't care about gas prices,,,,I still drive my 454 chevelle 2-3 times a week when weather permits,,,putting about 8,000 miles a year on it,,,,at 8 mpg and $3.40 a gallon for 94 octane......I don't care,,,,the cost far outweighs the fun factor. My firebird and a few others are the same way,,,,I drive them just as often. I plan to keep my collection,,,and don't plan to buy anything new,,,so if they come out with electric cars,,,so be it. I won't be driving one. The aftermarket is strong and my spare parts stash is huge,,,,I can keep driving these old cars till I die. I refuse to let gas prices dictate what I drive. The EPA and their mileage requirements can kiss my ass.

I can't stand those hybrid cars either,,,,about 2 months ago I pulled along side of a hybrid going about 50 mph,,,,I yelled over at the guy and said,,,,hey I bet that car won't do this,,,I dropped a gear and proceeded to lay rubber and fish tail until I ran out of tallent.

These requirements may kill current production, or they may go back to V-6's and turbos like GM did back in the 80's,,,,gas mileage and power all in one.
It's hard to tell what direction the big 3 will go. I think there will always be a small market for new highperformance cars. But just as I have been thinking all along,,,,if the new car performance market does dwindle,,,,it will more than likely start to drive up the prices of the 4th gens,,,especially the rare ones. We have already witnessed what happened to the 60's and 70's muscle cars,,,gas prices haven't seemed to affect their market one bit,,,,,,,,,Get one while you can!!!!!

I wouldn't mind having bear with you.

[fluke]

I know one thing for sure... I'll like having a monstrous 5.7 litre when all the weedwackers and electric golf carts are running around.

Okay.. in all seriousness.. I don't think it's over for the muscle car. There will always be the big powerhouses like the vette or something like it. I don't think there will be as many available though - can't. There will have to be a lot of small displacement or electric cars to make up the difference of having 15-25mpg cars running around. I am willing to bet though that our technology will increase enough to greatly improve gas mileage on our favourites and make them less painful on the pocket at the pump.

Things will change, but I don't think it will be over for performance cars with big engines and high horsepower; but I will admit when I first heard about the new CAFE standards I was worried too.. but I am getting over it. I think things will work out and be a little better than we expect.