Another 5.0 goes down

[Knight Stalker]

[QUOTE=Chris Arnold

The twin-turbo 5.0 on a stock shortblock (including cam), with GT40X heads, and a GT40 intake made 420 rwhp, which to me is less impressive than 320 n/a. Nothing really to write home about.

Yes, those are definitely anemic numbers for a turboed 5.0 with those heads and an intake. Are you running low boost pressure? A few years ago, a friend of mine bought a 306 Bullet shortblock, and added GT40 aluminum heads(but not the Xs), a Cobra intake, TB, Mass Air meter, etc., then twin turbocharged it. I think it was the Incon kit, but I could be mistaken. It laid down over 500 hp, and it was nothing exotic. The car this set-up was in was a notch. He never took it to the track, but it was an absolute animal. I had an LT1 car with LT4 heads and intake, and a Turbo Technology single turbo kit at the time. My car was a mild set-up with single digit boost pressure, and I ran 11.80 in that trim. Well, he absolutely KILLED me. He had traction issues, but once he got some traction, with all that power in that light car, it felt like a jet taking off. He maintained the sleeper look, and destroyed many loudmouthed individuals with that car. The near-stock 5.0s are certainly no match for a stock LS1, but, for someone who knows what he's doing, it doesn't take a whole lot of cash to turn one into a real killer.

[Cayenne97]

Before the long tubes and the port job to the cobra intake, it made 311 to the wheels as mentioned in the earlier post. Afterwards, I dunno....320 or so?

With heads, cam, and intake, I would hope you would be able to outrun a stocker.
That kind of power is a piece of cake for an LS motor, and 400 or so hp with just a cam and bolt-ons is possible. Yeah it's more expensive, but so is everything newer. Try to make that kind of power in a 5.0

[Chris Arnold]

There's no reason that you should feel the need to show my old 5.0s up with the LS1 or to school me on LS1s. Relax man and rest assured that my point is not that the 5.0 is superior, but only that the old 5.0s will jump up and surprise you every now and then.

That kind of power actually can be made from a 5.0, but that's where it starts getting expensive. To make that kind of power n/a out of true 5.0 displacement motors, they have to be revved, Chevies included. but simply stroking the 5.0 to the common 347 c.i. will also put it on par with the LS1s part for part. 400rwhp with a 347? Not a problem, either. Probably about the same investment as in the LS1, too.

You seem eager to prove to me that the LS1 is superior to the 5.0, but again relax brother. Did I mention I own an LS1 C5 corvette and love it too? The LS1 technology has the advantage over the old SBF 5.0 mill. I'm never going to argue that the 5.0 is in any way superior, except perhaps in aftermarket size and cost of modification.

Chris

[Chris Arnold]

My twin was an incon kit at about 9.5 psi with a stock cam. The incon was the lesser known 600 tti "prototype" kit. Spooled fast as shit, but not what people typically expected from a turbo mustang. Don't fret though, the new combo will more than make up the difference.

Chris

[2000T/A Guru]

Well if you gonna put all that money into a turbo stang, if you put forged internals and a head/cam then a turbo kit you should really be making 500rwhp or more, its not that hard. If you wanna say that modding a 5.0 is cheap i agree, if you wanna say they have a bigger selection in parts id say its about even, the chevy 350 basically created the term aftermarket parts. You can go with any setup you want on a ls1 if you have the money. I still dont under stand how people think 5.0s look good. But thats just me, i dont like box shaped cars

[JwMonE99]

Yea I am not a fan of how the foxbodies look, they are ok. I ride and rdirve one of them all the time I guess its something that has to grow on you. But IMHO I rather have a 5.0 in the 94-95 bodies I know they weigh around 500 lbs more but I think they look better. Still would not be that hard to make power out of it for cheap. Either way your taking a 15 sec car and make it run the in 11s-12s easily, is pretty impressive if you ask me.

[2000T/A Guru]

But that pretty much what the whole import world is for, i would take my supra over a 5.0 any day and with just 6500 into including the car i was running mid 12s, with 9k into i was running low 11s, so to come the 14k setup hoping for low 10s, maybe high 9s but probably not cause it will still be a 3700lb car. And those low 11s, i had everything done but the internals lol. I had soemwhat racing rings but those gave way and now its down to the block and waiting forged internals and the put it back together.

[Chris Arnold]

But that pretty much what the whole import world is for, i would take my supra over a 5.0 any day and with just 6500 into including the car i was running mid 12s, with 9k into i was running low 11s, so to come the 14k setup hoping for low 10s, maybe high 9s but probably not cause it will still be a 3700lb car. And those low 11s, i had everything done but the internals lol. I had soemwhat racing rings but those gave way and now its down to the block and waiting forged internals and the put it back together.

If you're referring to one of the latest gen supra turbos, then that's like saying I'd rather have a ferrari than a buick. You can't touch a supra these days for a fair price. 5.0s? a dime a dozen. You can find them for $3k or less in good mechanical condition. And there are cookie-cutter combinations you can find in every local grocery store that'll run as fast or faster than the supra you listed for less invested discounting the initial price paid.

It's all in what you're looking for. I'll agree: The 5.0 is less suave, and less appealing to chicks than the '93+ supra or my vette. In a straight line performance:dollar ratio, it'll run head to head with any other model of car in the world.

FWIW, I didn't have forged internals with the twin-turbo. The investment was excellent for 420 rwhp because everything was used, and keep in mind that 420 rwhp came at only 9.5 psi. The turbos were good to roughly 600 rwhp and could've done 500 rwhp or so, the shortblock....not so much:

stock shortblock: already in the car
incon tt kit: $2500 used
GT40X heads: $600 used
GT40 intake: $300 used
AFPR: $90
70mm accufab TB: $250?

Maybe I'm forgeting a part or two, but that's the gist of it. Could it be done for less? Absolutely, but I thought that the turbos were smoking deal and always wanted a turbo car.

Chris

edit: I see now where you said $6500 including the car... Obviously then, that's not the newer gen supra.

[JwMonE99]

Yea I think he has an older supra with the 1JZDET motor. Which is still not hard to get power out of it.
My personal taste is still to go with the american muscle and having a V8. The only imports I like is nissan but I dont race much with it, I drift every once in a while, altho I know my 300ZX can take out a lot of imports and even some domestics too I rather just stick with drifting. But if am I am just cruzing around and some annoying ricer wants to race I will smoke em, and leave the domestics alone, I will tell them straight up their cars are bad ass and even if I can win, I leave them with their respect.

[Knight Stalker]

Well if you gonna put all that money into a turbo stang, if you put forged internals and a head/cam then a turbo kit you should really be making 500rwhp or more, its not that hard. If you wanna say that modding a 5.0 is cheap i agree, if you wanna say they have a bigger selection in parts id say its about even, the chevy 350 basically created the term aftermarket parts.

The available parts selection as pertains to the 350 Chevrolet and the 5.0 Ford is about even. The fuelie 5.0s reinvigorated the aftermarket automotive performance parts industry. Even the the top Chevy magazines have conceded as much. As far as the LS motors having an aftermarket parts selection that is just about even with the 5.0 Ford......well, there's no comparison. I've built 5.0s, had been into the LT1s, and am now into the LSX motors. I can say from experience that the most daunting task facing a 5.0 Ford enthusiast is deciding which heads, which intake, which blowers, which turbos, etc. to select. There are so many 5.0 heads to choose from, it's a difficult task making an educated decision. Don't believe me? Check out the sites of some of the biggest vendors in the business: Edelbrock, Dart, Trick Flow, for just a few examples. Compare, for example, the number of cylinder head castings available from each company for the 5.0 Ford to those offered for the Chevy LS motors. The aftermarket support for the 5.0 Ford towers over the LS motors. It's basic economics, the Law of Supply and Demand. There have been far more 5.0s produced than LS1s, therefore there have been more enthusiasts of that particular motor available who are potential customers. That is what makes it financially feasible for a company to dedicate the hundreds or thousands of hours to the Research and Development that is required to develop an effective aftermarket performance part. The higher demand for the 5.0 parts is also the reason why the aftermarket 5.0 parts, generally speaking, are cheaper than their LSX contemporaries.
I certainly agree that the LS1's design is superior to the Ford 5.0, but the aftermarket's support of the 5.0 is FAR superior to that of the LS1.

[JwMonE99]

Yea thats true but with the LS1 you already have so much more power and wouldnt require as much to be "fast". But on the other hand if you want to go all out and rebuild a motor and have everything done for a much cheaper price the 5.0 is the way to go. I wouldnt complain about either motor, as long as its not a crappy 2 liter 4 banger

[N20LT4]

It really doesn't matter who has the largest aftermarket selection. Point is, there are enough parts available in the market today to build an LS1 or LT1 anyway you wan't it. True there is a larger aftermarket for the 5.0, but majority of it consists of parts from a particular manufacturer that works just like the part from another manufacturer, but with a different design. In short, though built differently, most parts do the same thing but in a different fashion with a different name stamped on it, with the exception of things such as heads, cam, and intakes, which actually do differentiate from one another signicantly.

As far as which one would be more costeffective to build? No question - 5.0!. But you also have to consider that an LS1 needs a mere fraction of the parts to match the potential of a built 5.0. It's also newer, and in my opinion only, looks better as well. So there's a lot more things to consider than just cost effectiveness when it comes to building a car. It boils down more to what you wan't (No matter how expensive it is !)

[2000T/A Guru]

No my supra is a 87 and i did not do the 1jz swap, those are only 2.5liters and i didnt feel like pulling my american supra motor and replaceing it with jap, the american 3.0 7mgte can make over 800rwhp reliably with the right parts, i do admit the 1jz is a bit more bullet proof with some peopl goin into the 1300rwhp with them. I know how much 93+ supras are, an auto non turob with 80k miles goes for around 14k in good condition. The new ones are a waste of time unless you have 50grand.

[JwMonE99]

So what motor do you have in the supra right now? what mods and numbers ect.

[2000T/A Guru]

It has the 7mgte, with port polished head, mild cams, intercooler pt-67 turbo which on that car is capable of 850hp. Im still saving for my new computer and the new rings. Then its time to put it back together and see what power i make. My friend tony and me both drive the car, we both have 2 other cars aswell, but he will be paying for the forged internals and part of the computer.

[JwMonE99]

Nice man, me and some friends want to put some money together to invest into a mitata (i know a gay car but oh well) and drop a 5.0 into it and build it up make a drift car out of it. and there is a skyline for sale and a few older supras we want to get either the skyline or a supra and just fuck around with and build up see what we can do.

[Knight Stalker]

Nice man, me and some friends want to put some money together to invest into a mitata (i know a gay car but oh well) and drop a 5.0 into it

Ah, the Monster Miata! Brings back memories. Or, supercharge the 5.0, and it becomes a Mega Monster Miata.

[JwMonE99]

lol yea howd you guess, my friends really want to get a procharger for the 5.0 after we get it in the miata

[Knight Stalker]

If I'm not mistaken, that company still makes those conversions.....and sells the hardware to do it yourself.