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[N20LT4]

"Too rare" is 13.9 in a bone stock 87 LX. Cars Illustrated, spring 88 issue. I stand by my statement, based on my own experience and my own observations at the track in the late 80's and early 90's when those cars were new.

Were you racing cars in the late 80's early 90's? Were into the "Mustang scene" like I was?


Very selective facts, but ok.


And mine is not? How much Mustang racing have you done? Not your buddies, not your magazines - but you?


Correct.


Hardheadedness can be a good trait sometimes.

Not so much in this case.


By LS1 standards? Sure. By 1987-1993 standards (when the cars were new)? Not at all.


No, it hasn't changed. But cars have. If one keeps things in perspective, it helps.



I'd love too. Too bad I didn't even own a video camera in 1988, and there certainly wasn't any such thing as "Youtube" back then. I'd prefer that you just go on not believing - it is the most sincere compliment you can give.


No, they make in the neighborhood of 185-190 RWHP stock. I don't know what mine made, because this was back about the time you were born, and there was no such thing as chassis dyno's back then.

My car never made 250 RWHP, but at 237 RWHP, it went 12.52 (1994). And at 278 RWHP, it went 11.93 (1997). Both of those ETs were at ~3150 lb raceweight.

How about you?



Likewise. Want to compare credentials?

I'd call you a fibber just like I would that magazine that said they wen't 13.9 in a bone-stock 5-0 (And remember when I say bone-stock I mean showroom condition).

[N20LT4]

And for the record (I just read your entire reply, and it seems unusually offensive), as far as my track history, lets say i've raced enuff. I didn't have to be born in the 60's to know what a 1988 5-0 will run in the quarter mile.

[BLKCLOUD]

I'd call you a fibber just like I would that magazine that said they wen't 13.9 in a bone-stock 5-0 (And remember when I say bone-stock I mean showroom condition).

Thank you. Your compliment is noted and appreciated. Nothing better than being told "I don't believe it".

And for the record (I just read your entire reply, and it seems unusually offensive)

Maybe you took it wrong? What part was "offensive"?

as far as my track history, lets say i've raced enuff. I didn't have to be born in the 60's to know what a 1988 5-0 will run in the quarter mile.

Maybe you do, because I would submit that you don't know.

So how long have you been racing anyways?

BTW....I looked, and the Cars Illustrated Mag isn't in my 'stack' of old magazines. However, I did find this. Not quite as impressive as the 87 that went 13.9x (only 14.29, darnit), but this one had a 2.73 gear (vice 3.08) and wasn't run in nearly as good of air.

Also, note that they compared it to a 1LE LB9 Camaro.

Bob

[N20LT4]

Thank you. Your compliment is noted and appreciated. Nothing better than being told "I don't believe it".


Maybe you took it wrong? What part was "offensive"?


Maybe you do, because I would submit that you don't know.

So how long have you been racing anyways?

BTW....I looked, and the Cars Illustrated Mag isn't in my 'stack' of old magazines. However, I did find this. Not quite as impressive as the 87 that went 13.9x (only 14.29, darnit), but this one had a 2.73 gear (vice 3.08) and wasn't run in nearly as good of air.

Also, note that they compared it to a 1LE LB9 Camaro.

Not tryin' to piss you off buddy, it's not that serious in my opinion. I'll never see it, never believe it. That's the end.

[BLKCLOUD]

I don't get pissed off at things on these Forums. This is entertainment - to get pissed would be kind of silly, don't you think? Truth be told, I get a big kick out of these sorts of posts.

If you have to see something to believe it.....well....guess we all have our "things". But if you were to do some research, you'd find out that everything I have posted here is accurate and factual.

But believe (or not) what you wish, and I do thank you for the compliment. Honest injun.

Bob

PS....still wish you'd answer my question, but there's bound to be a reason you won't, so we can just leave that at that too.

[AKIRA]

Once again bob chimes in with better times than anyone in a mustang, I have seen alot of fox bodys run and most are 15s some high 14s stock never seen one get close to 14 flat stock. Then again you are the mustang prof.

Ive seen 2 fox bodies run 13.9s stock! Yeah. You read right. They were the lightest mustangs of their model line up.

At the same time, I raced a 92 305 TPI 5-speed camaro with my 89 formula (not stock) and his fucking car beat me everytime! I coudlnt believe it. He DID have a flowmaster and K&Ns though..

In MY experience, I know that there are the common numbers and there are the flukes. I never raced a faster camaro of that year again nor did I see any other stock fox body run those times again.

[N20LT4]

Ive seen 2 fox bodies run 13.9s stock! Yeah. You read right. They were the lightest mustangs of their model line up.

At the same time, I raced a 92 305 TPI 5-speed camaro with my 89 formula (not stock) and his fucking car beat me everytime! I coudlnt believe it. He DID have a flowmaster and K&Ns though..

In MY experience, I know that there are the common numbers and there are the flukes. I never raced a faster camaro of that year again nor did I see any other stock fox body run those times again.

What one person sees, Nobody else ever will.

[secondgearscratch]

What one person sees, Nobody else ever will.

like my 10 second timeslip???: *stock*

[Rikki_SeVeN]

like my 10 second timeslip???: *stock*

yep...that along with my dad's Miata's 13second slips!!!

[secondgearscratch]

yep...that along with my dad's Miata's 13second slips!!!

[N20LT4]

like my 10 second timeslip???: *stock*

LOL

[Chris Arnold]

I know this thread is old, but I was just reviewing it and felt like adding a couple cents.

The Car Illustrated 5.0 was not showroom stock. Instead of running 10* initial timing, they bumped it to 12*, raised the tire pressure to 35 psi instead of 30, and I don't remember if they took out the air silencer but it's possible that they did that as well. They did however get a 14.0 out of it in "showroom" stock configuration. I've got a copy of the article back in the states. I would personally consider that car stock, though. $0 spent and no additions to the car. Oh BTW, that was in a hatchback. A notch would've gone faster because it weighs less.

My '89 went 14.2@98 stock - if I could drive like Bob I'd probably have gone 14.0s, too. That was with 2.73 gears on Radial T/As, with glasspack mufflers (the only changes that had been made to the car before I owned it at 100k miles). Glasspacks were not worth much if any hp, and the radial T/As probably did stick better than stock gatorbacks.

That car had nothing for my Vette, but it was just as much fun to drive hard. Somehow it was a lot more fun being the underdog against the LT1s, though. What the 5.0 lacked in power:weight, I guess I was able to compensate for in driving. I put probably 4-5 trans-ams and camaros at or just behind my rear fender where they'd stay till the end of the track where they start to creep on back.

From a roll, manual LT1s used to give me fits.

Chris

[N20LT4]

I've heard of some guys running rare times in stock or near stock 5-0's, but honestly bud, I use to smoke stock to lightly modded 5-0's in my stock LT1 by major car lengths. Raced plenty in the past 10 or 11 years, and if they were stock - or near it - they got burnt. And that's the honest truth. But anything goes!

[nevrlift]

your going to push his shit in.....306s aint poop w/o the use of N20

[Chris Arnold]

N20LT4, I don't doubt it, and I'm sure that back when I was a teenager a guy like you would've set me straight. Driving can make a 13 second car a 15 second car. Thing is.... people like you and I care about the performance of our cars, most people that buy the performance cars don't have a clue how to get the most out of them.

I don't feel that I could squeeze every last tenth out of that 5.0 8 years ago, and I don't feel that even if I could I would've beaten any LT1 I could've run into. It just so happened that I never got beat by one from a dig. Then again, plenty beat me from a roll.

Chris

[BLKCLOUD]

I've heard of some guys running rare times in stock or near stock 5-0's, but honestly bud, I use to smoke stock to lightly modded 5-0's in my stock LT1 by major car lengths. Raced plenty in the past 10 or 11 years, and if they were stock - or near it - they got burnt. And that's the honest truth. But anything goes!

Back "in the day" LT1's were my favorite lunch. Lot of cocky owners like you made for a whole bunch of fun at the track.

Too bad you weren't around here in an LT1 when they were new.

Bob

PS...nevrlift....there's a stock block Fox-body 302 with H/C/I over on the Corral that just went mid 10's (10.6s). N/A (that means he didn't need or use N2O). But you're probably a lot faster than that.

Nevermind.

[N20LT4]

Back "in the day" LT1's were my favorite lunch. Lot of cocky owners like you made for a whole bunch of fun at the track.

Too bad you weren't around here in an LT1 when they were new.

Bob

PS...nevrlift....there's a stock block Fox-body 302 with H/C/I over on the Corral that just went mid 10's (10.6s). N/A (that means he didn't need or use N2O). But you're probably a lot faster than that.

Nevermind.

Yeah, they must have ran a LOT better when they were new!

[2000T/A Guru]

Back "in the day" LT1's were my favorite lunch. Lot of cocky owners like you made for a whole bunch of fun at the track.

Too bad you weren't around here in an LT1 when they were new.

Bob

PS...nevrlift....there's a stock block Fox-body 302 with H/C/I over on the Corral that just went mid 10's (10.6s). N/A (that means he didn't need or use N2O). But you're probably a lot faster than that.

Nevermind.

Lol and there are cam only f-bodys running mid 10s, listen maybe some foxbodys are fast, who cares i have never lost to a mustang that had just bolt ons unless it was a supercharged year. END OF STORY, you can tell me all day show me mags and what not, of mustangs running this and that. When its all said and done i eat GTs, foxbodys, pre 03 cobras and mach 1s all the time. I used to own a GTP that ran 14.7s-14.9s and when i was 16 street racing every night on the street i never lost to a stock foxbody. You can say i ran a 14.flat in my bone stock 88 notch or whatever, I dont care, even mustang driver know not to mess with f-bodys. Most at highway where we race wont even race me anymore. Even ford drivers are starting to understand, but i know bob will shout mustang till the day he dies.

You also talk about beating up on lt1s at the track, you talk about drivers and what not i have seen stock lt1s run 13.6s, which is faster than any of you or an magazine got a 5.0 to run, maybe not much faster but still faster

In case you are wondering Bob i have been racing for 4 years, since i was 16, now you may not think that is long but when i go out on the weekends to race i get anywhere from 15-40 races in 1 night. You get maybe 8 passes at the track if your lucky, so yes i have raced almost any street car out there, classics, modern, tuner muscle whatever i have raced it, vipers ferraris, Crotch rockets, GSXer carts,. I put 30k miles on my GTP in 3 months racing at highway almost every night, so yeah thats alot of racing.

[N20LT4]

I strongly agree with you Guru. I've heard of guys claiming fox's to run that strong in stock trim, but I have never ran into one on the streets (or the track!). I've been racing now for 10 years (since 16 years of age), raced so many foxbodies I couldn't even try to remember most of them. And I have never even had a real competition from a stock one - nothing even close. I will admit I bought a 5-0 back in 2000 just to try some new; a white '90 GT with red cloth (well, partially cloth) interior, 5-speed, and Ford Racing chrome pony wheels. My first trip to Sac Raceway in completely stock trim netted me five 15-second timeslips with traps barely past the 90 mark. Bumped the initial up to 12 BTDC, yanked off the air box, sway bar, and ran a short-belt, and picked up a few. But it still wasn't anywhere near what my buddies LT1's were running. I ended up doing 3.73s, H-pipe, ADS chip to that car, raced my buddies completely stock '97 M6 Convertible, and got not just pulled - but by car lengths. That was last draw, the car was gone the very next week. I'm not saying I was the best, but I was a decent driver to say the least. Before my serious modding days, I ran through a few LT1's that were basically stock cars, with the exception of K&N drop-ins and mufflers, and when I would race a 5-0 with just a couple bolt ons, I would demolish it. It was like a broken record, happended everytime. Heck, I raced an E303-cammed LX hatch with bolt-ons and 3.73's and still pulled him by over a car. Raced that guys brothers Teal '93 Cobra, which was stock, and pulled him by about four cars, and all I had done to that car ('95 T/A) was the previously mentioned K&N drop in and muffler - plus a 3" cut-out before the muffler.

I'm not saying it's impossible, i'm not saying it's never happed. You have those really really good drivers out there like "BLKCLOUD" and Evan Smith that can do wonders. But truth is most guys won't get anywhere near those numbers. I just go by what i've seen, or in other words proof, and i've seen it dozens of times. That's why i've always considered stock 5-0's to be very slow.

[BLKCLOUD]

So many fish....such large barrels...so many bullets....

Lol and there are cam only f-bodys running mid 10s

Correct. In fact, there are bolt-on LS1s in the 10s. So? And? You're point? Why don't you run 10s with yours? Or even 11s? Or even low 12s?

listen maybe some foxbodys are fast, who cares

Obviously not you, or you would have responded.

Oh wait - you did respond. Oops.

i have never lost to a mustang that had just bolt ons unless it was a supercharged year. END OF STORY

Of course. All hail guru - the unbeatable by any non-blown Mustang man.

FWIW...I've been beat by everything from F-bodies to Civics. Sucks to be me, I guess.

you can tell me all day show me mags and what not, of mustangs running this and that.

...and like you're LT1 buddy below, you'll stick your head in the sand and ignore/not believe it. Tis ok. I enjoy it.

When its all said and done i eat GTs, foxbodys, pre 03 cobras and mach 1s all the time.

Of course. As far as we know. Cause you're mild LS1 is just........fast. Period. End of story.

I used to own a GTP that ran 14.7s-14.9s

wow

and when i was 16 street racing every night on the street i never lost to a stock foxbody.

That's scary.

You can say i ran a 14.flat in my bone stock 88 notch or whatever, I dont care, even mustang driver know not to mess with f-bodys.

OOps...I didn't get that memo. Can you resend it?

Most at highway where we race wont even race me anymore.

I wouldn't race you on the highway either - but it has nothing to do with the fear of being beat.

Even ford drivers are starting to understand, but i know bob will shout mustang till the day he dies.

LOL. A wonderful instructor you are.

BTW...I've owned more F-bodies than you. Wanna count em up? Isn't a big list.

You also talk about beating up on lt1s at the track, you talk about drivers and what not i have seen stock lt1s run 13.6s, which is faster than any of you or an magazine got a 5.0 to run, maybe not much faster but still faster

I don't believe I ever said or implied that a stock 5.0 was faster than a stock LT1. In fact, I would never try to argue something like that.

In case you are wondering Bob i have been racing for 4 years, since i was 16

WOW!! Holy Cow! Should I bow now, or later?

now you may not think that is long

and you might be right

but when i go out on the weekends to race i get anywhere from 15-40 races in 1 night.

Another scary one.

You get maybe 8 passes at the track if your lucky

Maybe. Not sure what the relevance is, but maybe.

so yes i have raced almost any street car out there, classics, modern, tuner muscle whatever i have raced it, vipers ferraris, Crotch rockets, GSXer carts,.

See above "bow" statement.

I put 30k miles on my GTP in 3 months racing at highway almost every night, so yeah thats alot of racing.

That's a lot of stupidity, but I digress.

I strongly agree with you Guru.

And this is a shock to.....whom?

Actually, I am a bit surprised. Oh well, I've been wrong before.

I've heard of guys claiming fox's to run that strong in stock trim, but I have never ran into one on the streets (or the track!).

And you probably won't - stock fox-body Mustangs are quite rare these days, and have been for quite some time.

I've been racing now for 10 years (since 16 years of age)

Oh boy, here we go again....

raced so many foxbodies I couldn't even try to remember most of them.

And they probably feel the same about you.

And I have never even had a real competition from a stock one - nothing even close.

Ok. See above statement about stock LT1 vs stock Fox body. Nobody here is surprised.

I will admit I bought a 5-0 back in 2000 just to try some new; a white '90 GT with red cloth (well, partially cloth) interior, 5-speed, and Ford Racing chrome pony wheels. My first trip to Sac Raceway in completely stock trim netted me five 15-second timeslips with traps barely past the 90 mark.

Your racing credentials obviously do you credit.

Bumped the initial up to 12 BTDC, yanked off the air box, sway bar, and ran a short-belt, and picked up a few. But it still wasn't anywhere near what my buddies LT1's were running. I ended up doing 3.73s, H-pipe, ADS chip to that car, raced my buddies completely stock '97 M6 Convertible, and got not just pulled - but by car lengths.

Got driver?

That was last draw

or even the last straw!

the car was gone the very next week

Don't blame ya.

I'm not saying I was the best,

Shew. I was worried.

but I was a decent driver to say the least.

As far as we know. But judging by our mods vs your ET, I'd say you were pretty poor. But you believe what you wish - I will do the same.

Before my serious modding days, I ran through a few LT1's that were basically stock cars, with the exception of K&N drop-ins and mufflers, and when I would race a 5-0 with just a couple bolt ons, I would demolish it.

Of course.

It was like a broken record, happended everytime.

Ditto.

Heck, I raced an E303-cammed LX hatch with bolt-ons and 3.73's and still pulled him by over a car.

E-cams suck.

Raced that guys brothers Teal '93 Cobra, which was stock, and pulled him by about four cars, and all I had done to that car ('95 T/A) was the previously mentioned K&N drop in and muffler - plus a 3" cut-out before the muffler.

A stock 93 Cobra is a pretty good run for a stock LT1, but I'd still give the advantage to the LT1. No surprises here.

I'm not saying it's impossible, i'm not saying it's never happed.

I'm pretty sure you are saying that, or at least implying it, but anyway....

You have those really really good drivers out there like "BLKCLOUD" and Evan Smith that can do wonders.

I suck unless I'm on a tire.

(Guru...."on a tire" means using a tire that gets better traction than you normal street tire...just so you know)

But truth is most guys won't get anywhere near those numbers.

Agreed. Most guys won't get anywhere near 12.9 in a bone stock LS1 either. Nor 13.5 in a bone stock LT1. Nor 12.4 in a bone stock 03 Cobra.

Point is?

I just go by what i've seen, or in other words proof, and i've seen it dozens of times.

Proof to you is internet bravado to me. Using your own words....show me the video, or show me some other documentation (a mag, a timeslip with a pic, etc). Otherwise, you're just another internet racer. Congratulations.

That's why i've always considered stock 5-0's to be very slow.

We all have our issues.

Ya'll have a great day.
Bob