mrr23, hptuners discussion

**Eagle** · 06-27-2007, 06:09 AM

Ok, so speaking of spending money and wideband sensors... hopefully I don't get flamed - but which wideband would you two recommend? My HPT Pro stuff should be here tomorrow...

-Eagle

**mrr23** · 06-27-2007, 10:26 AM

i have the PLX.

**mrr23** · 06-27-2007, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by 0rion

ok, I'm kinda seeing a trend here. I moved my iac effective area back to stock and added 2 more g/sec in the iac park table. I think I can nail down the 40-80C base air with 1 more tune. The 20C is my nemesis. I may just have to live with it until I can figure out something.
When I start the car is starts off with a little surging then I can hear it start sucking way more air ( sounds like a vacuum cleaner) and as soon as it does that the surge goes away and my stit's start to drop. I'm gonna guess that something is decaying out right there and I need it to decay almost immediately after I start the car. I just don't know what it is that's taking 20-30sec to decay. I'm thinking the airflow initial or frictional airflow so I'll play with those a little bit. I'm moving to my in gear air next because other than that initial start I'm happy with my idle and can nail it with 1 more flash I think.
I'm working a ton of overtime right now so it's tough to do much other than work and sleep while trying to fit some kids time in there. I'll get it though then it's time to work on that ve table. I have some knock issues that I'll have to deal with at some point but I want to get my fueling on first.

if you hear more air being sucked in, then the IAC is opening more. this is telling you it needs more air. did you try my config? it has the IAC postion, IAC desired position, and desired airflow tables in it. look at those. if the surging goes away when the IAC opens, then you need more friction airflow initial. also could be your TB isn't open up enough.

**mrr23** · 06-27-2007, 02:37 PM

i did your trick and added 2 g/sec of air to the park position. looks like it's working for me. i moved my IAC position over two to the right. think it may have screwed up the idle because i'm stalling now. waiting too long to open. i'll have to move it back and see what happens. also thinking about scaling it down. it goes 1, 15, 25, 35, 45, etc... the 1 to 15 is a big sudden jump. might go 10, 20, 30, etc...

**0rion** · 06-27-2007, 08:34 PM

That's sort of what I did the first time. After I moved it I went to the 2D view and hand smoothed it so it made a nice gradual climb. I really didn't have much luck by moving that. I think 4 spaces might have been to much and if I would've only went 2 to the right it would've worked out better. Either way it seems like the stock setting is working pretty well for me at the moment.
Sometime this weekend I'm gonna shoot a little video of my start up and let you check it out. I've added tons to the frictional airflow but the start up surge never went away. I want to look at my IAC steps and see what they're doing during the initial start up. I know they're not maxed out but I'm want to see if they're increasing when I hear the extra airflow. The airflow coming on like that done it when it was stock too. I just need it to come in sooner or I need a helluva lot more air for the first 20 seconds. I know the way I have it set up now the 20C base numbers are wrong and if I figure out the extra airflow I'll have to redo the 20C area. STIT's basically start at + x.xx but through the mid to later part of the 20C area they go negative then as the car moves up to 40-60-80C they're level. It's like I need more definition in that 20C range but I tend to think my start up air is low forcing me to run to much base air which causes the swing there. I'll get it at some point.

**0rion** · 06-27-2007, 08:35 PM

Eagle, I use an LM-1 setup because it's very portable. Unless you plan on moving it around from car to car I would look at a permanent install because they're cheaper but if you plan on moving it around the LM-1 has worked out pretty good for me.

**0rion** · 06-27-2007, 11:37 PM

read ken's post in this thread

idle explanation

**mrr23** · 06-28-2007, 02:46 PM

yep. a nice one. will concentrate more on that post.

**0rion** · 07-01-2007, 01:24 AM

ok, moved on a little bit the last couple of days. I got my in gear idle air dialed in. Went much quicker than my p/n air. I set everything up and logged speed density to dial in my ve table tonight. It's way off. Almost had a small hiccup in doing so. I copied over my ve tables and got everything set up but the car wouldn't idle. It would start then die immediately. My AFR was 10:1 and I couldn't figure out why then it hit me. I have a 98 and when in speed density it uses the secondary ve table and my first 3 columns hadn't been reduced so I flashed a 60-70-80% reduction to those columns and got it running. Did a log but I'm gonna have to do several to hit all the cells. I'm also getting an assload of knock in a couple of spots. Looks like real knock too so I'll have to figure that out. At one point I had 14 degrees of knock. That was like 80map ~3600 rpm. I'm gonna put some really high octane in it and see what happens. I wish I knew for sure whether it was real or not. My AFR was ~12.8:1 when I was seeing the knock so it wasn't like I was really lean.

**0rion** · 07-04-2007, 12:20 AM

ve table tuning update.....not going so well. Flashed my first tune over after doing the special paste with my last SD log. Went way to far. Not sure what I did wrong but I'm gonna have to do it again. I went from 12:1 to 17:1. The AFR was all over the place too. Not a good experience getting it back home. Trying to baby it seeing 17:1 then 19:1 then 15:1. I only went about a mile up the road then turned around and brought it back. I think I may give it a shot by hand versus the special paste stuff. I think I can get it close just by doing it by hand. I may try pasting again tomorrow, I'll have to think about it. I did it just like it was supposed to be done.....at least I thought I did.

**mrr23** · 07-04-2007, 06:22 AM

what paste special did you do? you are supposed to do paste special < multiply by % - half. if you did add, that would explain why it went so far out of whack.

**0rion** · 07-06-2007, 01:32 AM

I went back and made sure I did the %-half paste and it worked much better. There is something about the ve process that is driving me crazy and I've yet to figure out what I'm doing wrong. I copy the entire table out of the histogram like you're supposed to then special paste it to my tune. Every time I do that the car will not idle unless I go back and copy the first 3 rows of the ve seperately and paste them back in. I've looked at it and evidently I'm missing something because it looks like the first 3 rows are identical before I copy the first 3 seperately. I'm definitely missing something and this weekend I'm gonna spend more time on the car and hopefully I stumble across what it is I'm missing there. Being a 98 I have to go back and forth between the primary and secondary tables moving shit from one to the other so it gets a little confusing. I'm probably just messing something up there when I'm moving stuff over. Another problem I'm gonna have to fix is with my wideband. I'm gonna have to wire it differently to the car. I use the LM-1 and plug it into the cig lighter. When you start the car up it causes an interupt in power to the LM-1 and it has to warm up all over again. Driving me crazy. I'm gonna wire in another power port just for it and make sure it's hot all the time.

**Eagle** · 07-06-2007, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by 0rion

...When you start the car up it causes an interupt in power to the LM-1 and it has to warm up all over again. Driving me crazy. I'm gonna wire in another power port just for it and make sure it's hot all the time.

On a switch that stays hot through cranking. Hot all the time would be bad for obvious reasons...

**0rion** · 07-06-2007, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Eagle

On a switch that stays hot through cranking. Hot all the time would be bad for obvious reasons...

The LM-1 is portable. It's only plugged in while I'm using it......unless I forget to unplug it

Done that a few times already and killed the car battery.

**Eagle** · 07-06-2007, 04:21 PM

Oh, sweet! I hate showing just how much of a nub I really am at all this stuff. Give me to the end of the summer tho, I'd I'll be answering tuning questions with mrr style!

-Eagle

**mrr23** · 07-10-2007, 02:52 PM

ah i suck at tuning....

**Eagle** · 07-10-2007, 03:59 PM

hahahahha.... ok.

**0rion** · 07-10-2007, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by mrr23

ah i suck at tuning....

it's just a matter of practice. Look at how far you've come already. Now imagine what you will do with that experience on the next car you tune. There's a really steep learning curve here so it just takes time and practice. I give up on mine twice a week.

Did you see my logs at hptuners site? Just when I'm getting the hang of something I get kicked in the teeth by something else. This time it's kr and a bunch of it. I'm seeing 12-15 degrees in the lower middle of the timing table. I'm gonna put in some 100 octane this weekend and see what that does to determine if I'm yanking my intake to pull the knock sensors and upgrade those. I'm hesitant about just throwing money at it because I know several people with 98's that aren't having the kr problem I am so I want to rule the tune out before just throwing money at the problem.

I was kinda hoping to get more help from those guys but it ain't happened yet. A local guy posted up in there and he knows his stuff but I'm hesitant about asking him stuff because he makes money at it and I don't want to do that to him. There's a good chance I may be paying him to help me out at some point anyhow. I'm just holding out to see if I can get it. I'm not stupid and can usually figure this stuff out but I don't wanna tear the car up in the process.

**mrr23** · 07-10-2007, 08:26 PM

no i haven't seen your post lately. i quit tuning my idle. i let it learn from the last tune and it's working pretty good. still have some cold moring startup. i have to hold the throttle for about 5 seconds and slowly bring it down and it'll hold. that's where i've been at. trying to settle that issue. my surging when stopping at a light is gone. i played with the idle two days and it pissed me off. i left it alone and drove it home. settled in after about 20 minutes of driving.

and i've tuned a couple of cars since getting this. latest is a good friend of mine. bought my stock motor and installed his stuff. basically used my 408 tune and started pretty good. but had some issues. used a tune from another car that was a head, cam, 346. did better with it. so, i'm using that tune to see where i can improve.

what i don't understand is i cannot use the idle timing tables soem people have. they can go as low as 18-20* for an idle spark. i can't. i stay around 33*. i've taken out overspeed/underspeed, IAT spark, and couple others and it has helped my idle. i might try that 346 tune again. my firend's wouldn't idle wit hthe low idle spark tables. so, i put mine in and works. i'll so that to mine and see what happens.

**0rion** · 07-10-2007, 09:24 PM

have you tried reducing your timing with the vcm controls to see what the idle does when it's lower? I'm assuming you've tried to lower it with the idle in park table? I would also look at your spark histogram to make sure you're lowering it in the right cells.