Some insight into the 3.4L OHV Motor...

**Black34v6** · 06-18-2007, 10:47 AM

Hey mods -- since this post is somewhat informative, think i could get a sticky?

**RED-95-3.4** · 07-02-2007, 05:28 PM

Hello Ladies And Gentlemen. I Am A New Owner Of A You Guessed It. I Am New Here. I Have A Lot Of Plans For My Ride And I Hope That We Can All Work Together To Make Our Dreams Ride Like We Want. Like Many Others, I'm Sure, I Didnt Know What I Was Getting Myself Into When I Bought This Thing. I Absolutely Love It Though. So, I Just Want To Say That I'm Proud To Be A Part Of Something We All Have In Common. Oh And You Sound Like You Truly Are The 3.4 Guru. It's A Beautiful Piece Of Literature.

**RED-95-3.4** · 07-02-2007, 05:33 PM

What Is A Sticky?

**koolchriscamaro** · 07-07-2007, 05:06 PM

Hey there Russel............i really enjoyed reading your thread and made me think twice about keeping my 3.4 camaro and not selling it.....although, i was thinking about doing the same thing that you did, except i dont know all the exact details. First off, i was thinking about buying me a 3.4 engine out of the newer grand ams for anywhere between $500 to $700, so that would keep me from stressing out by trying to find those parts. Well, if i do this...what all do i need to swap out besides the heads and the intake manifold.........will the intake plenum off the grand am fit on my camaro engine?........and what do u mean by fuel rails, did you get those off the car or buy them from a parts store.....and what size fuel injectors do i need to get.......i was think about going with 17# injectors since they can be stock replacement and i dont want to affect the gas mileage...if you could be more specific, then i would appreciate that a lot.....

**koolchriscamaro** · 07-11-2007, 06:54 AM

oh....and i was planning on putting a stage 2 chip that is made from the company JET......and from what i heard, it will make your car use more fuel when your getting on the gas......so will 17# injectors be fine.........and do you not have a chip on your car?............

**B34M3R** · 07-18-2007, 01:46 PM

The fuel rails will come connected to the intake mani.... as for the plenum, its part the manifold and must be used with the grand am one... the question is would the hood clear... which I'm fairly sure it would... and as for the injectors, once again, go with the grandam ones... which would come with it if you bought the whole engine.

Hey Black34v6, could you post some pics of your engine bay? I'm really curious to see what the 3400 heads and mani look like in a camaro bay... where does the TB end up?

**Black34v6** · 07-18-2007, 04:20 PM

pictures of engine bay:
http://www.adwire.com/camaro/modpics

that was when i FIRST did the swap, using parts from a 1996 Grand Am GT (3100 engine) - i then swapped up to the 3400 parts later.

the injectors on the grand am are 19# injectors (or 22 - depending on whether you get them from a 1999 grand am gt or a 2000 grand am gt)

**Hot Black Trans-Am** · 07-18-2007, 05:16 PM

I had a 2003 Alero coupe with the 3.4 in it. I thought it was a very good v6. I put a cold air intake kit with a K&N filter, exhaust, lowering springs, KYB shocks and it was a surprisingly quick good handling car. Good job keeping the V6 interest and modding alive.

**Wesman** · 07-23-2007, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by derrinx

I hope I dont come off as sounding ignorant by saying this, but I am in no way an expert on engines and I just dont understand how you can say that. I never understood why american v6's were always so underpowered as compared to certain Japanese counterparts. The 3.5L v6 in a G35 and 350Z produce 300hp and around 284 tq, the 3.2L v6 in an 04 acura TL produces 270hp and 250tq, and the 3.0L v6 in an 06 accord makes 244hp and around 220tq...and all these engines are single cam (not sure about the nissan 3.5)
All these engines are a lot newer granted, and technology has improved, but japanese engines have always been producing more power than comparable american v6's. I know tuning, timing etc is all different, but why would american car manufacturers insist on producing engine that aren't comparable to other manufacturers instead of copying their technology and looking at ways to improve it? And i know american engines are tuned more for torque etc, but doesnt it make american cars seem inferior to japanese cars when honda squeezed out 170 hp and like 120 tq from the b16 dohc 1.6L inline four in the early 90's, which is more hp from LESS THAN HALF of the diplacement (yes, i know a lot less torque). How could you consider a stock 3.4L v6 making 200 hp a top ten engine?
Personally, i prefer american cars any day, but is it any wonder why ford stock is at 6 dollars a share and american car makers are loosing ground to the japanese every day? In the end i think it comes down to hp/liter which is the most important peice of information you can know about an engine. 325/5.7(LS1) = 57hp/liter...i mean come on is that the best americans can do? It becuase of stupid things liek what you described in your post that american engines jsut are not up to par with the rest of the world. We need new thinking in detroit or else soon enough we wont have any american cars left to idolize.

The reason is that the American Manufacturers use the 6 cylinder engines for the base models, therefore they aren't performance oriented. If you want performance, you buy the V8. Simple as that. No need to make a 300HP 6 cylinder when its only purpose is to be installed in secretary cars that aren't going to be driven hard. The 6 cylinders make acceptable power (they aren't slow, they just aren't fast), get decent fuel economy, sound pretty good, and will run virtually forever. When your high-tech Nissan V6 is rapping its valves 200K miles and takes a shit, the 3.4 and 3800 will still be going strong.

The Japs have this idea that extracting as much power as possible from smaller engine has some benefit, when the reality is you end up with a gutless engine that only has top end power and still gets the same fuel economy as a larger one. As they say, "you gotta feed the horses", regardless of the size of the motor. So why have a 300HP V6 when you can have a 300HP V8 that sounds 100x better, achieves the same fuel economy, has a much better powerband, and responds better to mods?? Think of it like that, and you'll see its pointless.

Anyhow, good info, learned a few things about the 3.4 and 3800 that I didn't know before.

**koolchriscamaro** · 07-24-2007, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Black34v6

pictures of engine bay:
http://www.adwire.com/camaro/modpics

that was when i FIRST did the swap, using parts from a 1996 Grand Am GT (3100 engine) - i then swapped up to the 3400 parts later.

the injectors on the grand am are 19# injectors (or 22 - depending on whether you get them from a 1999 grand am gt or a 2000 grand am gt)

i must say, you have done a very good job with that engine and it looks really nice.....but i still need your help. I changed my mind and decided that i will try and find those parts from a junkyard....maybe off a bad block or something........So if im trying to go for better gas mileage along with the performance, would it be better to go with the '99 grand am stuff or the '00 grand am stuff..........or does it even matter, but i do plan on putting a JET stage 2 chip on my car....i just dont want my engine to drink up the gas like a v8......and what all would i need besides the intake manifold, heads, intake plenum, TB, is there any little stuff that i need to ask the junk yard for?...........and would i need to get the bolts and stuff off the other engine or will my factory ones work with these new parts.....and would i need to go ahead and get the fuel injectors off the used grand am(which im kinda against since i think i should go ahead and get some brand new ones), or would it be any better to get some aftermarket ACCEL fuel injectors...and if i do, do they need to be for my '95 camaro or do they need to be for the grand am that i get the parts off of................IM very sorry for asking so many questions, but i lack a lot of knowledge when it comes to cars and i plan on paying a mechanic to do all my work.........i just want to get all of my parts the 1st time and i hope youll understand that......any information about all of this will be greatly appreciated!

**koolchriscamaro** · 07-24-2007, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Black34v6

pictures of engine bay:
http://www.adwire.com/camaro/modpics

that was when i FIRST did the swap, using parts from a 1996 Grand Am GT (3100 engine) - i then swapped up to the 3400 parts later.

the injectors on the grand am are 19# injectors (or 22 - depending on whether you get them from a 1999 grand am gt or a 2000 grand am gt)

hey....i was looking at your pics and i forgot to ask..........what did you do with the vaccum hose and the MAF sensor that hooked up to your intake.............and what is that circular looking thing between the brake fluid and the coils( i hope i dont come out sounding dumb, but i dont recognize it on my car)

**Black34v6** · 07-24-2007, 01:33 PM

ppl have their own opinions against the 3.4, and i disagree with all of them...and thats all i will contribute to the discussion.

**koolchriscamaro** · 07-25-2007, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Black34v6

ppl have their own opinions against the 3.4, and i disagree with all of them...and thats all i will contribute to the discussion.

Now come on now....please dont b like that.........when i first got my camaro which is a green '95 convertible..........i really liked it except the engine...............i really got pissed that i didnt have a 3.8, and ended up getting the puny 3.4 and i even thought about swapping in a v8........but my opinions about the engine changed very greatly after i had read your thread........so can you please answer at least a couple of the questions that i had asked............because if you do, then i can build my car off of your info....

**B34M3R** · 07-26-2007, 04:36 AM

The fuel injectors would need to be off the grandam for the swap... the difference in gas mileage between the years would be minor, if noticable at all... and likely would be better than you have now, due to the better flow of the new heads, overall efficency in the motor will be up, so even the slightly larger injectors would still improve mileage, in all conditions OTHER then WOT.

The circular thing is an aftermarket alarm.... As for the chip, its likely a waste of money... chips rarely do jack-crap for any NA car, let alone little V-6. I would imagine the money would be better spent elsewhere... like an exhaust system, or if you REALLY wanted to open the car up, a cam would be a good choice with the head swap. Of course, with the cam, the larger aftermarket injectors would be a good idea. (even though they are aftermarket, they need to be for a grandam still.)

Hope I helped some.

**koolchriscamaro** · 08-02-2007, 05:05 AM

okay...once again i have a few more questions.........and i appreciate the advice i've been given so far...........okay, do i head gaskets for the camaro or grand am( i think the grand am) and what set of headers can i go with that wont give me any leaks................

**Namrepus28** · 08-02-2007, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by dreaded_hope

Very impressive write up!

+1. I just read it. I have a 3.8L myself, but I'm over at FTV6 most of the time, and see alot of 3.4L guys stuggling at times. Some of them get it right, and some of them don't just like you said.

I'm very impressed by the thought, time, and effort that went into your write up. It's amazing how careful observation and thinking things through can result in such dramatic changes in an engine's performance.

Too many people try bolt-ons without considering what exactly they're actually doing and whether or not it will solve the main design flaws from the factory.

Good on you sir, for going about this in a scholarly manner and having such impressive results.

**Namrepus28** · 08-02-2007, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by koolchriscamaro

okay...once again i have a few more questions.........and i appreciate the advice i've been given so far...........okay, do i head gaskets for the camaro or grand am( i think the grand am) and what set of headers can i go with that wont give me any leaks................

Well they type of header is generally limited to three:

Pacesetter
RKSport
CIA

I've heard tales of leaks with a few of them, but the most common source of leaks, I've found, is the gaskets. Get a good set of gaskets, tighten them properly, for the first while after the headers are installed as you drive the car, and you should be relatively leak free. Other leaks have cropped up mind you, but the gaskets are usually the main issue.

Most of the folks over at FTV6 swear by the CIA headers as the best.

(And if you'll give me a moment, I'll try to go remember what exactly CIA stands for to get you a website address...)

Edit* I'm speaking of the Camaro in this post.

**koolchriscamaro** · 08-03-2007, 10:09 AM

again i appreciate the info and hope to recieve more.....but if i get a set of cylinder heads off a '99 or '00 grand am gt.....do i need head gaskets for the grand am or camaro........the head gaskets look identical, except i think the corners on the grand am look as if the heads had been ported...if youll know what i mean..........and would a upper and lower intake and TB off a 94-96 grand am fit on a set of 99 or 00 grand am heads???

**Namrepus28** · 08-03-2007, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by koolchriscamaro

again i appreciate the info and hope to recieve more.....but if i get a set of cylinder heads off a '99 or '00 grand am gt.....do i need head gaskets for the grand am or camaro........the head gaskets look identical, except i think the corners on the grand am look as if the heads had been ported...if youll know what i mean..........and would a upper and lower intake and TB off a 94-96 grand am fit on a set of 99 or 00 grand am heads???

Personally I can't help you with the other stuff. Ask around at fullthrottleV6 .com in the grand-am section. (N-bodies I think?) and you'll find some answers from the pros there.

**Forced_Firebird** · 08-07-2007, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by koolchriscamaro

again i appreciate the info and hope to recieve more.....but if i get a set of cylinder heads off a '99 or '00 grand am gt.....do i need head gaskets for the grand am or camaro........the head gaskets look identical, except i think the corners on the grand am look as if the heads had been ported...if youll know what i mean..........and would a upper and lower intake and TB off a 94-96 grand am fit on a set of 99 or 00 grand am heads???

Use the 3x00 gaskets that correspond with your heads. You will also need the 3400 pistons, or you will have significantly higher compression. The 3.4 pistons have an 8mm dish and the 3400 pistons have a 27cc dish. 3500 heads will get you 12:1CR with the stock RWD "Camaro" pistons.

Also judging by the pics of "Elanor", the 3500 plenum should clear in a 4th gen Fbody. I have a 3rd gen, and I am positive the 3500 plenum will clear in my car.

Here are some pics of the 2.8/3.1, 3400 and 3500 top end respectively...