Imports

[cj8718]

I don't know your real name or location, so I can't address you in a more personal manner. You're information in pertinence to Porsche's history is of an empty nature, not necessarily truthful facts. You're facts and knowledge are as false as the lies you purposely directed through your outlines and argument.

I honestly now question you're overall knowledge of Porsche, since I would strictly view your accessible information in terms of both denotative, and connotative information as stagnant material in the perimeter, and not the area of the truth. I suggest that you rethink the integrity of a fact, and understand the integrity of an unproven word maybe superficial....

Providing a list of mods is meaningless, except to PC racers such as yourself. If those residing in New Jersey are interested, we're at Raceway Park every Wednesday and Friday night. I myself could care less "what" you know and believe, but perhaps hearing it from other members would ultimately satisfy such a humble request.

I'm honestly done with you as well, but I on the other hand will be the grown up here... and state that it's been pretty interesting speaking with you. I would never lower myself to such a level, and state that I think you're full of crap. On the contrary, I wouldn't really need to. You're opinionated "facts" do a very good job all by themselves....

Well, you tried to use a bunch of big words (some of which you couldn't spell, many you used improperly). I'm certain I know more about Porsche's than you given that I've not only owned six of them, I've lusted over them for more years than you've been alive.

As I expected, your buddy's 930 never did a quarter mile and your claim of his time was as baseless are your original statement. We all got nothing more than the bleating we expected. Heck, I'm willing to bet if I'd said my car does 5's you'd have said his does 4's. Oh, and that your dad can do more push-ups than mine. Truly pathetic.

Oh, one last thing, genius - if AWD is such a negative factor then tell us all why EVERY turbocharged Porsche made since '96 has it. EVERY SINGLE ONE (especially your vaunted 930 predecessors).

The clock's ticking awaiting your learned reply (sound of crickets)...

[cj8718]

Leave it to a Porche snob "the world's greatest exotic sportscar" The 911 and any of it's contrived, bloated, back-engineered bastard children is and are, in my opinion, the biggest design mistake ever undertaken by any major vehicle manufacturer (with the possible exception of the the Yugo and Vega). Why Porche stuck with this bizzare arrangement after the original design of the beatle is beyond me. Years of "refinement" and development to get it to the place where it is today is a joke. I wouldn't own a rear engined, air cooled anything, much less a 911 (et al.) And how much does a 930 or 911 turbo cost?? They actually seem proud of 280 HP. I'd much rather have a 928. Everyone knows that Ferraris are the most sought after exotic. Now those were designed right from the beginning. I'm sorry, but Porche snobbery is lost on me, an objective, rational, thinking individual not enslaved by brand indoctrination and brainwashing. Is this off topic? We were ranting about "imports". And to answer the above question, why F1 doesn't use AWD, well, they don't need it. An F1 car weighs all of what, 1200 pounds? AWD on an F1 car would be a HUGE weight penalty, one that would be useless in the type of racing being done. On the same note, why does F1 use mid engine and not rear engine like Porche?

Hey LS,

Don't expect Lethal to come back w/ a response remotely answering your post. He appears to live in a world where LOUD trumps FACT.

I can't help but laugh at him...

[95MKIVTT]

The SRT-4 is the best bang for the buck in the market today. With little modifications they can be fast. The only problem is little ignorant dumbasses own them most the time and think that they are king of the streets. .

so true. especially the ones that dont know shit about other cars in general especially mine. i raced one, didnt start out from a dead stop, he just bust out of the hole and i said oh why the hell not and reeled him in, and put about a half car legnth on him, and then slowed down cause i was heading into a sharp corner and didnt want to get into an accident this guy goes buck wild and almost swerves out.

I then go up to him and ask him what hes got, hes like nothign really its mostly stock 289hp, ( i could tell he was thinking my car was only like 180hp or something ) i was like oh i see, but the torque helps as well" hes says yeah that too, not getting that i was expecting him to say that.


why why WHY do these people have to give good cars bad names.

[95MKIVTT]

[QUOTE=LS666]Leave it to a Porche snob "the world's greatest exotic sportscar" The 911 and any of it's contrived, bloated, back-engineered bastard children is and are, in my opinion, the biggest design mistake ever undertaken by any major vehicle manufacturer (with the possible exception of the the Yugo and Vega).

Why Porche stuck with this bizzare arrangement after the original design of the beatle is beyond me.

uhh his dad was the one responsible for the beatle, Ferdinand's 356 was an original, slightly like the beetle but a very original idea.

Years of "refinement" and development to get it to the place where it is today is a joke.

yes, several LeMans wins, gt wins etc. is SUCH a joke...

I wouldn't own a rear engined, air cooled anything, much less a 911 (et al.) And how much does a 930 or 911 turbo cost?? They actually seem proud of 280 HP.

you do know that porsches are strictly ROAD racing cars right not DRAG racing cars? furthermore the cost? Well great craftsmanship, engineering etc. you get what you pay for and its worth the price to those who are true car entusiasts.

.

Everyone knows that Ferraris are the most sought after exotic.

uhh sorry charlie


.

Now those were designed right from the beginning. I'm sorry, but Porche snobbery is lost on me, an objective, rational, thinking individual not enslaved by brand indoctrination and brainwashing.

yeah your SOOOO objective, that your ignorance is non existant...

Is this off topic? We were ranting about "imports".

you tell me, and a porsche isnt an import?! wow sooo objective logical etc. you rawk.

[LS666]

Sorry, but a rear engine is a stupid idea. It was great for the massed produced "volkswagen" but as far as performance? Ask yourself how many other serious car designers/producers have produced this layout? Ferrari? nope, BMW, nope, Mercedes? nope, Lambo, Lancia, Maserati, Jaguar, Aston, nope nope nope nope nope. As far as the originality of the 356 goes, was it a rear engine flat four with a one piece pan? If so, sound pretty "beatle-esque" to me. Put a bathtub on it or whatever, still nothing special.

I suppose winning a few european races gets you some cred, but these were purpose built RACE cars. I believe the racing porches, for the most part, are/were mid engine, like 917s or 968s. And speaking of which, how many years had Porche been involved in Le Mans? How many years did it take Shelby to come in and clean Porche and Ferrari's clock? Hmm, years of development and refinement shot to hell by a Texan, an American pushrod V8, and a little determination. So much for superior german engineering.

Have you ever sat in a 911? if it doesn't remind you of a Beetle or a 914 your in your own little world. There is absolutely nothing spectacular or special about your average roadgoing porche that sets it appart from any other sportscar. Great craftsmanship? Talk to my neighbor about great craftsmanship while he's changing all the valves on his 911 because of a poorly designed cam chain tensioner let the timing chains slip. Porches are NOT supercars and suffer from the same ailments and design flaws as any other vehicle. You are simply paying for a name. There are any number of vehicle's that will do everything a 911 will do and better, for cheaper (seen a Z06 lately?)

The ferrari comment was tongue in cheek. Everyone has their own preferences in exotics and non-exotics for that matter. I was making fun of the quoted artical that stated the 930 was the "worlds greatest sportscar". Pure Porche snob BS!!!

I am objective and, as such, can see right past the Porche-philes rabid brand loyalty. I've been under 914s and 944s. Ive helped a friend work on his 928. I watched my neighbors 911 sit for years because Porche's superior engineering cost so much to repair when it goes bad. I have an import mechanic friend who works on Porches. He's never had a good word to say about them except they're overpriced and he gets a ton of cash to work on em. I'm no porche expert but I've been around some stout machinery and I simply don't see the attraction. Not ignorance, just a firm grasp on reality.

As for the last sentence, I was refering to the fact that my own post had gone off topic a bit. If you didn't detect the change in timbre you have less a grasp of english than I have of high performance machines.

[996TTx50]

LS666,

I will not bother challenging your wholesale disparagement of Porsches because, for the most part, you have merely shared opinions and isolated anecdotes. Sufficie it to say that my experience with Porsches has been substantially different than yours. I see that you are in Arizona. I *may* be in Tempe this coming Friday or Sat with my poorly engineered Porsche. Are you near Tempe? Do you want to line up for a friendly run?

996TTx50

[Capster78]

LS666,

I will not bother challenging your wholesale disparagement of Porsches because, for the most part, you have merely shared opinions and isolated anecdotes. Sufficie it to say that my experience with Porsches has been substantially different than yours. I see that you are in Arizona. I *may* be in Tempe this coming Friday or Sat with my poorly engineered Porsche. Are you near Tempe? Do you want to line up for a friendly run?

996TTx50

Better watch out, he may beat you with a car thats 10X more expensive than yours, then he can ego trip about beating a cheap american piece of crap. Id watch out 996TTX50. Im sure there are quite a few ls1's on this board that will be more than happy to line em up with you.

[996TTx50]

Better watch out, he may beat you with a car thats 10X more expensive than yours, then he can ego trip about beating a cheap american piece of crap. Id watch out 996TTX50. Im sure there are quite a few ls1's on this board that will be more than happy to line em up with you.

First, I never stated, nor even suggested, that LS666 drives a "cheap American piece of crap." I happen to be a great admirer of American cars and, in contrast to certain people here, I do not denigrate other brands simply because I drive something different.

Second, the "your car is more expensive" excuse is weak and unavailing.

Third, I am fully aware that there are dozens of cars on this forum that would rape my poorly engineered Porsche. I know many of these cars personally. It is interesting that you feel the need to remind me of this self-evident fact simply because I offered to line-up with one particular LS1 that disparaged my car and happens to live nearby where I may be later this week.

Fourth, take note that I remained polite and respectful, even in the face of harsh comments about my car. You might consider adopting a similar tone.

996TTx50

[cj8718]

Better watch out, he may beat you with a car thats 10X more expensive than yours, then he can ego trip about beating a cheap american piece of crap. Id watch out 996TTX50. Im sure there are quite a few ls1's on this board that will be more than happy to line em up with you.

Jeez... when you guys rip his car he does the only thing he can do - offer to show you what he's got. You didn't expect that so you pull out the trusty cost-vs-cost card.

His car DID cost way more than yours but it's also way better in most every measurable way. You might be able to take him in a drag race but that'd be the end of you winning anything.

If you don't want the viewpoints of those who own cars different than yours why not just ban all of us from this site?

[95MKIVTT]

[QUOTE=LS666]Sorry, but a rear engine is a stupid idea. It was great for the massed produced "volkswagen" but as far as performance? Ask yourself how many other serious car designers/producers have produced this layout? Ferrari? nope, BMW, nope, Mercedes? nope, Lambo, Lancia, Maserati, Jaguar, Aston, nope nope nope nope nope. As far as the originality of the 356 goes, was it a rear engine flat four with a one piece pan? If so, sound pretty "beatle-esque" to me. Put a bathtub on it or whatever, still nothing special.

I suppose winning a few european races gets you some cred but these were purpose built RACE cars.

few? and alot of these cars were made street legal wtih pretty much nothing changed except for maybe emissions, and a bit of ground clearance, ie GT1, GT2, GT3, etc.

I believe the racing porches, for the most part, are/were mid engine, like 917s or 968s. And speaking of which, how many years had Porche been involved in Le Mans?

many, still are today, especially in the american le mans, also again the engine placement of those racing porches werent much diffrent from the street versions

How many years did it take Shelby to come in and clean Porche and Ferrari's clock? Hmm, years of development and refinement shot to hell by a Texan, an American pushrod V8, and a little determination. So much for superior german engineering.

then along came a japanese manufactuer of which he used in daytona racing series which was known as the toyota 2000gt

Have you ever sat in a 911? if it doesn't remind you of a Beetle or a 914 your in your own little world.

yes, that doesnt mean it was entirley based off of the beetle.

There is absolutely nothing spectacular or special about your average roadgoing porche that sets it appart from any other sportscar.

OH Yeah nothing except for a great engine, great handling, and many more unique aspects that is not like any other car, have you ever sat in anything other than a 968 etc? Such as a turbo, a gt2 etc.? or driven in one?

Great craftsmanship? Talk to my neighbor about great craftsmanship while he's changing all the valves on his 911 because of a poorly designed cam chain tensioner let the timing chains slip.

and HOW old is it?

Porches are NOT supercars and suffer from the same ailments and design flaws as any other vehicle.

no they are not, a GT1 gt2 etc. are not at ALL...

You are simply paying for a name. There are any number of vehicle's that will do everything a 911 will do and better, for cheaper (seen a Z06 lately?)

there is such thing as diffrent models you do kow that right not all are the same?
also Z06 yeah great car very but id also like something unique to go along with it,

The ferrari comment was tongue in cheek. Everyone has their own preferences in exotics and non-exotics for that matter. I was making fun of the quoted artical that stated the 930 was the "worlds greatest sportscar". Pure Porche snob BS!!!

ah, yet i can also say the same about how people say that the Z06 is the best car ever built or the american v8 engine, when i know there are better or just as better,yet still wouldnt doubt that they are ONE of the greatest, since im a person who loves all fast, greatly manufactured cars. no matter whre they come from.

I am objective and, as such, can see right past the Porche-philes rabid brand loyalty. I've been under 914s and 944s. Ive helped a friend work on his 928. I watched my neighbors 911 sit for years because Porche's superior engineering cost so much to repair when it goes bad.

so does my toyota supra tt, its called a sports car, drive it hard and fast it needs to be maintained more, plus its a no frills car yet take care of it and you can still drive it hard and fast same with any car even a Z06

I

have an import mechanic friend who works on Porches. He's never had a good word to say about them except they're overpriced and he gets a ton of cash to work on em.

I'm no porche expert but I've been around some stout machinery and I simply don't see the attraction. Not ignorance, just a firm grasp on reality.

go to other places and youll see more.

yet youve never been around the other cars besides the ones you have and base your entire preception on the entire line solely on those cars.

thats like me saying that since ford made pintos that the rest of their cars are awful as well.

[LS666]

I'd love to line em up just to see it go down the strip, not sure what it would prove though. Let me drop a 100K into my bird then then I'll run em any way you want. Must be nice to have money pouring out your butt though, I've always been jealous of you guys.

What I've noticed is that no one really gets what I'm saying about 911s. I don't have a problem with Porches in general, I love 928s and I'd kill to have a 550 spider I just think that 911s and the like are over rated. I think this has turned into a flame war more than a logical discussion. Do you have any idea what a set of huge twins on an LS1 would do? I could launch it to the moon. While the result of all that "engineering" has, no doubt, created an impressive machine, that kind of effort on just about anything, withing reason, would net a greater result. I'm not being contrary just to be an ass, but I do have the right to my opinion. I believe I'm being pretty objective as I don't suffer from blind brand loyalty.

As for the price comparison, It's as valid an arguement as any. Some guy with a thinly desguised race car jumps in here challenging a street car to a race because I've pointed out a few shortcomings of his precious german auto and then when price is brought up pops off with "thats irrelevant" is just plain silly. No sir, it's highly relevant to the discussion at hand and kind of lies at the basis of my original thesis. That 996 is one bad ass looking piece of machinery and I'm sure it's a pure rocket ship. But given the chance to choose something in the same price range, it wouldn't be anywhere near the top of the list. You lose a lot of value (not the right word but the best I could do on short notice) just because "Porche" is written on it. I would, however, love to see a dyno sheet on that thing. Us dumb americans don't understand "kilowatts".

Enjoy your 996, I'm sure it's neat and no doubt the total babe magnet, but all that engineering was required to make a rear engined design perform. The same effort on many other vehicles would net a greater result. My lack of literary ability just isn't properly getting the point across.

[LS666]

95MK, you not getting it. Don't you find it odd that you could take your turbo Supra, drop 20 or 30K into it and beat the holy living crap out of just about every street Porsche ever sent out?

As far as what cars I've owned or driven, thats kinda silly as the vast majority of us have never had the oportunity to drive an exotic, much less own one. I've had a lot of cars, corvettes, camaros, a jaguar, fiats, Datsun Z cars, etc. I've got 17 years on ya. I'm making a general observation that urges discussion. I've never been within eyesight of a McClaren F1 but I'm pretty sure I'd like to have one.

My neighbors 911 was bought probably in the late 80s early ninetys. He's a serviceman and bought it after an overseas deployment. It had more miles than the warranty would cover because Porsche wouldn't fix it. It didn't have a ton of miles on it and it looked pristine. Apparently the cam chain tensioners are hydrolic and are fed pressure from the main oil pump. There was some type of problem with this and I hear that this failure isn't that uncommon. Not exactly my specialty, but I can only operate with what I know. My twin cam Fiats never chucked a timing belt.

As far as the racing porsches, again, your missing the point. These are, for the most part, purpose built machines. Racing is kind of a hard way to evaluate such things as it most often really has no relationship to street vehicles. There are enough different manufacturers that it becomes diluted in the face of huge sponsorship money and high dollar drivers. By saying that the germans have fantastic engineering is sorta making the claim that others do not or are somehow lacking. The inferior C5R's handed the Porsches their own ass. Again street cars and race cars=two entirely different things.

I apologize if I came off like a butt. I didn't mean to.

[mrr23]

this thread has been beaten enough.