I need help!!! From military only plz

**bluehawk2000** · 10-23-2009, 06:13 AM

I have a few questions to ask those of you that is in the military and it is about regulations to see what I can do about this situation!!! I will explain it when i get a few of you military in here.

**Packy** · 10-23-2009, 06:17 AM

ok...

**bluehawk2000** · 10-23-2009, 06:30 AM

Ok let me get some stuff straight, I am in a convey security company we are csc for short. We was put together at the beginning of this deployment as a company but not a true company since we dont have a UIC. We have a commander and a first shirt, our first shirt has taken care of us very well but needless to say we have a company commander that isnt doing this cause he wants to he had to before he could make his major.

Well we got hit by an IED back in august and as all of us military personnel know all the medical paper work and other award bullshit that you have to go threw before it is cleared. Our actual e-5 that was doing all this paper work for us that got hit was bound by an unlawful order in mine and everybody else's perspective to not let us see our paperwork nor was she aloud to tell us anything about it.

The company commander basically screwed her and kicked her outta the company today. Cause another guy that is here went to ask her a question about the paperwork and she told him she couldnt show or tell him anything. So in his perspective he figured well I might as well goto the company commander and see if he can tell me anything since he wont let her tell me anything. Which sparked him to kick her out of the company which leaves us with basically nobody to do our paperwork that will actually inform and properly complete it to make sure we get what we deserve.

So what I am asking is what can we do as a soldier to make sure he doesnt get away with screwing the soldier. Cause imo he gave an unlawful order to with hold information that dealed with our paperwork. The morale is very low, even our first sergeant cannot stand his punk ass, he is basically selling us out here soon anyway. But what can we do to make sure our e-5 that got screwed over be able to talk about the paperwork even tho he told her she cant talk to anybody about it period. Without her getting in trouble and to make sure he doesnt make his next rank cause he does not deserve it or atleast have a reprecussion to what he has done over this deployment?

I can actually give you alot of instances where he just doesnt do his job cause he just sits in his office all day on facebook.

**1MileCrash** · 10-23-2009, 06:46 AM

you can either take you complaints directly to the commander or you can go above his head to his commanding officer and see what can get done. the first one will piss him off. the second one will royaly piss him off...but the 2nd one may actually get you somewhere.

**Smkn_TA** · 10-23-2009, 06:47 AM

Go over his head....don't you ever watch MASH?

**bluehawk2000** · 10-23-2009, 06:49 AM

done tried to go over his head, we done went to the sergeant major about this ordeal actually several people. But the bad thing is about the whole situation is our battalion commander is in love with the man. Since he is one of those special forces attemptees shall I say.

**1MileCrash** · 10-23-2009, 06:54 AM

follow your chain of command. you can go higher yet if you absolutely have to.

**bluehawk2000** · 10-23-2009, 06:58 AM

I know that I can go higher, I am partially looking for the number of the regulations that states the grounds on an unlawful order so she can go and take care of the whole ordeal.

**1MileCrash** · 10-23-2009, 08:15 AM

not sure. might be beneficial to see a JAG lawyer about it.

**tallnick** · 10-23-2009, 08:22 AM

trying to go over his head is probably going to piss him off even more.. its a fucking shame that some officers don't give a fuck about troop welfare..

**bluehawk2000** · 10-23-2009, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by tallnick

trying to go over his head is probably going to piss him off even more.. its a fucking shame that some officers don't give a fuck about troop welfare..

See I could give two fucks if I piss him off, the problem is I dont wanna piss him off and not have the right grounds or regulations to prove that he is the one doing the wrong here so he cannot do anything to me. And he really doesnt he didnt come to the front gate to help us after we got hit to get the people in the medevac humvees or even come to the tmc after the fact. He doesnt never come to our barracks to see how things are going. Our first sergeant stays in the same barracks as us and actually does cookouts for us he was their helping us in the gate after we were hit. And has actually cussed the brigade sergeant major out and battalion commander out cause they show up acting like they care when it was nothing but a publicity stunt.

**tallnick** · 10-23-2009, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by bluehawk2000

See I could give two fucks if I piss him off, the problem is I dont wanna piss him off and not have the right grounds or regulations to prove that he is the one doing the wrong here so he cannot do anything to me. And he really doesnt he didnt come to the front gate to help us after we got hit to get the people in the medevac humvees or even come to the tmc after the fact. He doesnt never come to our barracks to see how things are going. Our first sergeant stays in the same barracks as us and actually does cookouts for us he was their helping us in the gate after we were hit. And has actually cussed the brigade sergeant major out and battalion commander out cause they show up acting like they care when it was nothing but a publicity stunt.

Your first sgt sounds like he is good to go.. but man I feel for you having such a shitty commander.. I am not to familiar with army regulations.. probably await for Infantryws6 to come in here and answer some questions..

**bluehawk2000** · 10-23-2009, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by tallnick

Your first sgt sounds like he is good to go.. but man I feel for you having such a shitty commander.. I am not to familiar with army regulations.. probably await for Infantryws6 to come in here and answer some questions..

Last time I checked most of the major regulations are universal between the branchs except for uniform and all the other regs. But yea he is a good guy and he deserves every bit of his rank cause he got it by taking the burden of being put with us. Cause we was put together so poorly and since we dont have a uic we are last in line to get hardly anything supplys wise. Shit I mean I am on the psd team for the battalion commander that he hand picked and he doesnt use as nearly as much as he should.

**infantryws6** · 10-23-2009, 04:05 PM

Without knowing all the details I can't give you an exact answer but I will make a few general statements

-If an unlawful order is issued, and you know it is unlawful, you do not follow it otherwise you are also wrong

-There are a few ways to handle the reporting of this, but first off make sure you have all your facts straight because you are going to be asked questions. Having witnesses is going to be extremely beneficial so it is not a he says she says argument one on one with your commander

-Best course of action is to take it up your chain of command. If you don't feel comfortable talking to your immediate supervisor go higher(which it sounds like you have done). Be aware that this will piss off everyone you passed over because they get blindsided by the questions from higher (not a good position to be in I know from experience). If this doesn't work there are other options. My question for you is, if your 1SG is the great leader you say why isn't he involved in resolving this issue?

-If you cannot get your concerns addressed through the proper channels your next step is to file an IG(inspector general) complaint. Once again get all your facts and have your witnesses file complaints also. If IG senses the slightest chance of a wrong doing they will start an investigation. Once again be prepared to piss off your chain of command.

-The other option is a congressional inquiry, which should probably be your last resort. If IG finds no wrong doing then this method most likely will have the same findings. Basically you write your congressman and explain the wrong doings of the commander. IF the congressman is concerned he will have a general officer conduct an investigation.

I caution you to make sure you know what you are talking about. If there are details that you are not aware of or misunderstandings and you start an investigation when nothing was actually done wrong you will make life painful for yourself. I am not saying nothing was done wrong but make sure you have the facts.

I do understand why you are upset. I was in an IED attack that wounded my gunner, killed my driver, temporary hearing loss to another, and gave me a concussion and temporary hearing loss. The medics told me I would get a purple heart. The paperwork was submitted for all of us and all of them except mine were forwarded. When I questioned it my commander told me that my injuries were not serious enough since I went back out the next day. I had 48 hours of quarters but i ripped up the profile and went back out. I could have fought it but I wasn't concerned with getting a purple heart because some debris hit me in the head. I would however like to find that asshole who is a MAJ now and beat the shit out of him

**iam_dale** · 10-23-2009, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by infantryws6

Without knowing all the details I can't give you an exact answer but I will make a few general statements

-If an unlawful order is issued, and you know it is unlawful, you do not follow it otherwise you are also wrong

-There are a few ways to handle the reporting of this, but first off make sure you have all your facts straight because you are going to be asked questions. Having witnesses is going to be extremely beneficial so it is not a he says she says argument one on one with your commander

-Best course of action is to take it up your chain of command. If you don't feel comfortable talking to your immediate supervisor go higher(which it sounds like you have done). Be aware that this will piss off everyone you passed over because they get blindsided by the questions from higher (not a good position to be in I know from experience). If this doesn't work there are other options. My question for you is, if your 1SG is the great leader you say why isn't he involved in resolving this issue?

-If you cannot get your concerns addressed through the proper channels your next step is to file an IG(inspector general) complaint. Once again get all your facts and have your witnesses file complaints also. If IG senses the slightest chance of a wrong doing they will start an investigation. Once again be prepared to piss off your chain of command.

-The other option is a congressional inquiry, which should probably be your last resort. If IG finds no wrong doing then this method most likely will have the same findings. Basically you write your congressman and explain the wrong doings of the commander. IF the congressman is concerned he will have a general officer conduct an investigation.

I caution you to make sure you know what you are talking about. If there are details that you are not aware of or misunderstandings and you start an investigation when nothing was actually done wrong you will make life painful for yourself. I am not saying nothing was done wrong but make sure you have the facts.

I do understand why you are upset. I was in an IED attack that wounded my gunner, killed my driver, temporary hearing loss to another, and gave me a concussion and temporary hearing loss. The medics told me I would get a purple heart. The paperwork was submitted for all of us and all of them except mine were forwarded. When I questioned it my commander told me that my injuries were not serious enough since I went back out the next day. I had 48 hours of quarters but i ripped up the profile and went back out. I could have fought it but I wasn't concerned with getting a purple heart because some debris hit me in the head. I would however like to find that asshole who is a MAJ now and beat the shit out of him

+1 on this...I was thinking IG all the way...if it was actually an un-lawful order. The only "real" problem you might run into...that I think you are trying to avoid is: If "she" followed the order, and it was illegal...she's screwed, as well. I've seen the congressman thing work in the past...but that's one of those "do what your career can handle" steps that is usually a bad idea anyway.

dale

**ArcticZ06** · 10-23-2009, 05:48 PM

this thread hurt my brains.

Get 100% of your facts together and document them. Get some written statements from your fellow soldiers giving full details of the events that took place. Have JAG take a look at the statements or someone who can help you ensure they are well written and go up your chain of command.

There could be multiple reasons he doesn't want you to see the paperwork. Perhaps you were in an area you weren't supposed to be when you were hit by the IED and he doesn't want to take the fall fo it. Probably not likely but just one of a million possibilities.

**B34M3R** · 10-24-2009, 09:39 AM

Well, I don't have as much experience as some of the guys in here, but I was going to say, if going up the chain of command isn't working, go outside of it. IE: Going the IG course. Maybe talk to somebody over at JAG just to get some advice first, but if your paperwork doesn't have something in it thats classified above your level, I don't see what the problem would be with bringing this matter up.

Also, I'll throw this out here... If the E-5 wasn't aware that the order was unlawful, IE: following on purpose, then he wouldn't get in trouble would he?

**bluehawk2000** · 10-24-2009, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by ArcticZ06

this thread hurt my brains.

Get 100% of your facts together and document them. Get some written statements from your fellow soldiers giving full details of the events that took place. Have JAG take a look at the statements or someone who can help you ensure they are well written and go up your chain of command.

There could be multiple reasons he doesn't want you to see the paperwork. Perhaps you were in an area you weren't supposed to be when you were hit by the IED and he doesn't want to take the fall fo it. Probably not likely but just one of a million possibilities.

we was doing a recovery on a rg-33 that got hit with an efp and killed everybody in it. I had to pull the guys out of it, the IED hit us right outside of our gate and everybody knows where it was when we got hit,

And our first sergeant doesnt wanna get involved cause he may get in some deep shit since our captain is in good with god and everybody. For christ sakes they took 4 guys leave and they went to our congressmen to fix it, they took their leave because they went on emergency leave during trainning at the beginning of the year one had a baby one had a death in the family and the other well you get the point. Some of them didnt even stay gone no longer than 4 days.

Our brigade is so screwed up its not even funny, our sergeant major good guy and all but he went on 3 emergency leaves and he still got his full 15 days of leave without no question from his chain of command they actually made him go on leave.

And the sergeant that has got done wrong is actually in the process of writing a sworn statement with all the facts and having the witness that was their which was our first shirt writing a sworn statement of what was said. So its ok nothing may happen to the captain but its ok he has already screwed everybody in the company over. And he is moving his office in the sarg that got kicked outs room to make a point I suppose. But its ok we have some dirrty dirrty pranks we are gonna be doing to him once this happens lol.

But I have actually learned threw this deployment more about regulations and how to defend yourself from getting screwed over from the brass then I would have ever. I am pissed cause I had to deploy with this ate up chain of command that consist in this brigade. So I have done made my decision I am going to put in my medical packet when I get back to go special forces and sign a new contract since I only have 2 years left on this one, and make sure I get all the nice little schools.

**bluehawk2000** · 10-24-2009, 10:02 AM

oh and btw I am sure that nothing in that paperwork is above my security clearence. I also appreciate all of you helping me with this situation, since I know my mesly 4 years in isnt no where near as much as some of you have had.