2010 SS vs bolt on 02 WS6

**Mike0202** · 08-24-2009, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

GM isn't over rating their cars,,,,if anything, they are probably closer to being spot on.

What GM did do is UNDER RATE the LS1, as it has been shown a few times on the engine dyno that they make in the neighborhood of 400 hp at the flywheel in stock trim, which is why you see stockers put down 300+ at the wheels all the time.

Your C6 ZO6 comparison is also probably near spot on, as it's rated at 505 HP at the flywheel, by the time you figure in any drivetrain losses of 15% or so, plus the fact that every dyno is a bit different so there is a percentage of fudge factor there,,,it looks about right to me.

I am going to disagree that a stock ls1 makes 400 at the fly. I would say generally its around 350. 360 at the most. 300/.85 = 352 sounds about right. Anything much over 300rwh on a stock ls1 is a happy dyno.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2009, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by big hammer

plus half the "riding the clutch" you hear in the video is the clutch slipping trying to keep up to the tires

We can only speculate on that here, but from my experience with stick car racing I'll go out on a limb and say that his clutch was probably working just fine. Being that when there is a clutch problem, most of the time it shows it's ugly head in the higher gears as you move down track, primarily 4th gear. As he shifted the clutch sounded just fine to me, although it seemed he missed 4th gear a couple of times

**big hammer** · 08-24-2009, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

I run BFG KDWS' (mud and snow version) on mine and cut 1.93 60 foot times with relative ease. I don't even air them down, as a matter of fact, I found they work best with more air.

oh well. mine were terrible and will never buy them again. the e\t streets are nice and consistant. you dont have to worry about spinning out at all.

however my car isn't a daily driver so i need not worry about adverse weather conditions or wearing the tires out

**big hammer** · 08-24-2009, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

We can only speculate on that here, but from my experience with stick car racing I'll go out on a limb and say that his clutch was probably working just fine. Being that when there is a clutch problem, most of the time it shows it's ugly head in the higher gears as you move down track, primarily 4th gear. As he shifted the clutch sounded just fine to me, although it seemed he missed 4th gear a couple of times

i can tell you for sure that half "riding" you hear is the clutch slipping some.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2009, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mike0202

I am going to disagree that a stock ls1 makes 400 at the fly. I would say generally its around 350. 360 at the most. 300/.85 = 352 sounds about right. Anything much over 300rwh on a stock ls1 is a happy dyno.

Man where have you been hiding. Several rags have had stock LS1 crate engines on the dyno already, as far back as a couple years ago. They very close if not right at the 400 mark before tinkering.
And 300+ at the rear wheels is pretty normal for the stick shift cars, but as I mentioned before, every dyno is a bit different with many variables. It just depends on where you are looking, but I'd venture to say I see more 300 rwhp stock LS1's than not.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2009, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by big hammer

oh well. mine were terrible and will never buy them again. the e\t streets are nice and consistant. you dont have to worry about spinning out at all.

however my car isn't a daily driver so i need not worry about adverse weather conditions or wearing the tires out

You are comparing a stock street tire to a purpose built sticky

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by big hammer

i can tell you for sure that half "riding" you hear is the clutch slipping some.

You are sure about that??

**big hammer** · 08-24-2009, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

You are comparing a stock street tire to a purpose built sticky

so? i couldn't hook with the KDW's at all. so i got dr's. problem solved. i'm sorry if that offends you.

**big hammer** · 08-24-2009, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

You are sure about that??

since that's me driving my car i have a pretty good idea yes.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2009, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mike0202

That was then, this is now. The new ones SHOULD be able to spank a car that is over a decade old... I would think hahaha. IMO the difference should be like comparing an l98 to an ls1.

Ya that was then and this is now as in my point being the 5th gen should have cost more than $30K now,,,,my hats off to GM for offering the car at prices our 4th gens were selling for 10 years ago.

People paid that much for a 4th gen and didn't get as much of a car back then as you can now, looking at the big picture. A cars speed shouldn't be the only measure when looking to purchase something, because that alone is easily altered. If that's the logic of thinking here then why bother to own a 4th gen now when the prices of C5 vettes are reasonable to own.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2009, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by big hammer

so? i couldn't hook with the KDW's at all. so i got dr's. problem solved. i'm sorry if that offends you.

I think you missed the point there fella.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2009, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by big hammer

since that's me driving my car i have a pretty good idea yes.

Then can you explain all the missed shifts??

**big hammer** · 08-24-2009, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

I think you missed the point there fella.

i think you missed the point. i couldn't hook up at all with KDW's so i got e\t streets. oooooh lets turn this into an argument!

i couldn't care less if one is an all purpose street tire and one isn't. i wanted traction. now i have it.

**big hammer** · 08-24-2009, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Then can you explain all the missed shifts??

i know--- and 4th of all gears!

i put in a pro 5.0 and now for some reason i find 4th gear in a bit of an awkward spot. but 3rd is spot on. i only put about 1200 miles a year on it i guess i gotta drive it more.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2009, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by big hammer

i think you missed the point. i couldn't hook up at all with KDW's so i got e\t streets. oooooh lets turn this into an argument!

i couldn't care less is one is an all purpose street tire and one isn't. i wanted traction. now i have it.

You said your regular street tires were horrible, so you bought M/T stickies to cure the problem, that's apples to oranges. No offense taken here, it sounds like you are a bit touchy on the subject

**Mike0202** · 08-24-2009, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Man where have you been hiding. Several rags have had stock LS1 crate engines on the dyno already, as far back as a couple years ago. They very close if not right at the 400 mark before tinkering.
And 300+ at the rear wheels is pretty normal for the stick shift cars, but as I mentioned before, every dyno is a bit different with many variables. It just depends on where you are looking, but I'd venture to say I see more 300 rwhp stock LS1's than not.

Well you would need at least 340 at the wheels to equal 400 at the motor. I think 350 would have been a fair rating because that is what the vette made, and the gto with the same motor. Dont get me wrong, id love to say my car has 400 hp, but i doubt it does.

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2009, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by big hammer

i know--- and 4th of all gears!

i put in a pro 5.0 and now for some reason i find 4th gear in a bit of an awkward spot. but 3rd is spot on. i only put about 1200 miles a year on it i guess i gotta drive it more.

I've never tried the 5.0 shifter, but I had a hurst billet at one time and had a similar problem, only with third, seemed to be an awkward gate that didn't line up quite right.

**big hammer** · 08-24-2009, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

You said your regular street tires were horrible, so you bought M/T stickies to cure the problem, that's apples to oranges. No offense taken here, it sounds like you are a bit touchy on the subject

i hear ya. i guess i should have just got another set of KDW's and hoped they were better than the last.

**big hammer** · 08-24-2009, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

I've never tried the 5.0 shifter, but I had a hurst billet at one time and had a similar problem, only with third, seemed to be an awkward gate that didn't line up quite right.

this is the same way--- 4th seems off to the side a bit--- almost too close to 2nd for comfort

**Firebirdjones** · 08-24-2009, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mike0202

Well you would need at least 340 at the wheels to equal 400 at the motor. I think 350 would have been a fair rating because that is what the vette made, and the gto with the same motor. Dont get me wrong, id love to say my car has 400 hp, but i doubt it does.

Too hard to put exact numbers down with varying dynos, but the LS family of motors are healthy in stock form to say the least.