Evo vs my Stang

[Firebirdjones]

There's a cure for lack of low end torque,,,,,

It's called lots of rearend gear

[Superluminal]

You made that video??? Geewiz man, I can't believe you let stuff bother you to the point that you went through all that trouble.

Well, Wesman is like that itch you can't scratch.

Making a video isn't that hard by the way. He could have made the video while he was going out for a cruise in his car anyway, since his camera was mounted. Plug in that SD card/USB do a quick Windows Movie Edit, and you have yourself a video in less than 10min, ready to upload. There isn't great lengths to making a video these days.

Regardless, I wouldn't have made a video personally. I'm just too sexy to be on the forums.

[Firebirdjones]

Well, Wesman is like that itch you can't scratch.

You guys are too funny.

[JoeShmoe]

I thought it was a good video, 4tun8. But how the heck did you end up at LS1.com?

[Superluminal]

I thought it was a good video, 4tun8. But how the heck did you end up at LS1.com?

We've all had LS1 cars at some point.

[4tun8]

Never had an LS1.....owned 2 camaros, but neither were LS1. I ended up here the same way I ended up on most boards........curiosity. I do own 2 mod motors though!

[Wesman]

It's not your opinion that bothers people, it's your attitude and direction towards cars you don't like.

Pathetic lack of low end power.... maybe I'm not aware but when you're racing you are generally in the cars powerband, which for 4 cylinders is up top. Regardless of whether the car has low end torque or not if you can keep the car in it's powerband it's going to go fast like any other car.

With that being said.... here is an built EVO vs. a built turbo TransAm (on the street from a dig):



Both of those cars are 9 second cars. So how does your comment have relevance when racing.... hrmmm.

I never said my comment was only relevent to racing. You did.

No street car spends its entire time racing. Most are driven on a daily basis, to run errands, go on trips, ect. So you're not spending all your time in the powerband, nor would you want to. Thats why low end torque is important. I can drive my car anywhere and never go above 2,000RPM without even trying, its just not necessary. I can have 4 people in my car take off from a traffic light on a hill, and not even notice. Its called torque. It makes driving the car 100% more pleasent under all circumstances, which is why having a 4 cylinder in a $35K "performance" car is nothing but a disadvantage. I can't stand cars that struggle to move their own weight from a dead stop, or situations where you have give it a ton of throttle on a hill to avoid stalling. Thats garbage IMO, but the japanese seem to have a different philosophy on that.

[karpetcm]

Might not have much to do with the subject but im gonna add to what Wesman said but in no way am i bashing on Evo's, since some are blazin fast and all handle excellent. I had a 01 M3 6speed, although it was fairly quick 310 rwhp after it was modded, to me it was a horrible daily driver granted soo many people say its such a well mannered daily driver. I would hate the acceleration surge, no low end torque and even when it reached its peak torque it was 249 RWTQ, lol. I would always have to rev it passed 3500-4k to get any type of fast acceleration. I have to admitt with its great gearing and going above 6k to its 8100 Redline it was fast and pulled really well but always noticed it didnt like to spin up quick through the rpms. Nothing taken away from the M but i couldnt wait to sell it, sold it to a young kid who was more then happy to take it off my hands. I had 3 camaro's prior to my M and bought another 2 more after my M and gonna keep it that way for a very long time.

[00z28bubba]

low end torque is fun man. and max tq at 4k-4.4k is very fun

[karpetcm]

Yup no doubt, i still want more torque lol. I think ill get into headers at the end of this year and get a re tune and hope to get above 350 rwhp and 360 rwtq. 00z28bubba, what kind of headlights are those they look sick, really goes with the car, sorry change of subject. Getting back to the subject i know a few people who love to drive Evo's and S2K's and will never mention anything about torque just how well there car pulls top end or off the line, everyone has there own preference i guess thats why there are soo many different types of sports cars.

[Wesman]

There's a cure for lack of low end torque,,,,,

It's called lots of rearend gear

Evo IX's already have a 4.53:1 differential. Still gutless.

Imagine if it has 3.42 gears like a stock F-body?? The car would be undriveable, and wouldn't even be close to 13's in stock form.

[Firebirdjones]

Evo IX's already have a 4.53:1 differential. Still gutless.

Imagine if it has 3.42 gears like a stock F-body?? The car would be undriveable, and wouldn't even be close to 13's in stock form.

Ya but even the 4th gens aren't torque monsters in my book. Especially the LS1's, they are high strung small blocks that like rpm. Especially if you put any kind of camshaft in them, better be prepared to spin it to 6500 or more. In which case you need some rear gear to fully exploit it. Keep in mind the 4th gens have 3.06 first gear in the auto to help them along,,,and a 2.66 first gear in the manual. Along with a very short 26 inch inch tire.
Thats just not torque to me.
Although this is coming from a guy that is used to driving 60's muscle with more than 450 ci. Cars that make so much low end grunt you can get away with 3.08 gears and a very high (in comparison) 2.48 first gear and still be able to roast the hides.

In the little 4 cyl defense,,,a 4.53 gear isn't that bad. I still have small block cars here with either 4.56 to 4.88 gears that I drive. They are high strung small blocks with what I consider no low end,,they really don't come alive until 4,000 rpm or more ,but the gear makes up for that in spades.
In a nut shell the only way to make HP with smaller engines is to spin more rpm. The gear compensates for lack of low end and gets the car moving faster.
The fact that this little Evo has a 4.53 gear shows exactly what I was talking about in the statement you quoted.

All these types of cars make good power and can run quick times in the quarter mile,,,,they all just have different ways of going about it to accomplish the same thing in the end.

[Superluminal]

low end torque is fun man. and max tq at 4k-4.4k is very fun

Depending on what size turbo you go on a 4 cylinder you can get max torque at around 4.5k.

I knew a few 240 guys running GT2871Rs (largest of the "small" turbos). These turbos would fit under the factory exhaust manifold. They would hit peak torque around 4-4.5k RPMs. Keep in mind these cars were only making low 300whp/300wtq range, however they were much more fun as street cars. There was hardly any turbo lag, and pretty much the entire RPM band was usable power. In a 2600lb car these were low 12s cars, possibly high 11s if track prepped.

I understand you can do much more to an 8 cylinder and still have it streetable, but as long as you don't go crazy on a 4 cylinder and mate some gigantic turbo with little powerband to show for, they can be respectable street cars. You just have to pick the right turbocharger for your application. Of course, if you want to go really fast in a 4 cylinder you lose most of that streetability by running a large turbo. But again, I'm not daily driving my 10 second car. I take it out for fun, and use it for it was built for, which is the essence of where the discussion went awry.

[maroca]

my buddy has one they can be pretty nuts but there tempermental the weather changes and they need a new tune lol one day i will stomp his ass like he owes me money the next i just try to play it off like we wernt even racing i get beat so bad lol



and they also have like a 14% drivetrain loss cause of it being awd
i think the pretty fun cars to drive when you get in the cuts or on an on ramp they stick like the pages of my first playboy good stuff

[4G63inside]

Independent shop. Kids bring them in because they modify them and then they break.

Just like any hi-performance vehicle right? There is no such thing as a bullet proof anything, if one small thing goes out of place by a thousandth of an inch it can result in catastrophic failure. And as you stated the "kids" bring them in, mostly with mommy and daddies money to fix what they broke because they can't drive the car or think they're sh*t don't stink cause they have an Evo or STi with it's AWD, and it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. These "kids" are the ones giving all import owners/cars a bad rap, not to mention my insurance rates going higher.

[Superluminal]

Just like any hi-performance vehicle right? There is no such thing as a bullet proof anything, if one small thing goes out of place by a thousandth of an inch it can result in catastrophic failure. And as you stated the "kids" bring them in, mostly with mommy and daddies money to fix what they broke because they can't drive the car or think they're sh*t don't stink cause they have an Evo or STi with it's AWD, and it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. These "kids" are the ones giving all import owners/cars a bad rap, not to mention my insurance rates going higher.

Tell me about it.

Did you know the insurance on a Corvette ZO6 is less than an STI or an EVO?

That's a fact.

[4G63inside]

Tell me about it.

Did you know the insurance on a Corvette ZO6 is less than an STI or an EVO?

That's a fact.

I wouldn't doubt it, but since I switched insurance companies it's a lot better than it was.. It went from 290 a month for my car alone fully insured (26 no driving record, married) to 185 a month with my car and my wifes car with full coverage. Just by switching insurance companies alone.

Now back on topic..