whats my rwhp?

[Azrael]

Dyno tuning is great if all you ever do is leave your car in 1:1 gear and expect to get 0mpg.
Dyno tuning (none motored) is a tool for tuning but what is most important is how the vehicle performs in the REAL world. Some might like to brag about their rwhp numbers, others their gas milage, and some stick to the good old 1/4 mile. For me, it's a blend of the last 2. Street tuning gets you the mpg and mannors while 1/4 mile tuning gets you the ET. The dyno can be for all you bench racers. Keep in mind you do NOT need a dyno for a wideband o2 reading. Running a wideband at the track and watching each gear change your AFR can be a real eye opener towards why dyno tuning isn't the end all be all tune.
Dyno tuning will get you -90 to 90% of perfect and the rest is on the street and track.
D-millar, the cam and headers probably got you to 360+rwhp. The bore, pistons, and cat-back are feather weights. Tuning might get you 380+, no way to be sure but who cares? Just take it to the track and get a feel for it. It's a lot cheaper and TONS more fun. Then, post your vehicle weight, the conditions, and your mph. Compare with those that have both track time and dyno numbers. See, you saved some bones and had fun. Later

Hmm... Your tuning philosophy sounds very familiar. Rick at Synergy used to think this way too until he got a dyno. Dyno tuning is the only way to tune a car safely while having access to the complete RPM range. ~6200 rpm in our 3.23 car translates to the neighborhood of ~142 mph.

Either way there will always be the opposing view. Dyno's are tuning tools, not bench racing tools. The 1/4 mile is where the car is truly measured.

[GA Country Boy]

Well figuring this is "LS1.com" I would presume he meant LS1 cars.

So ALL LS1 cars are 350hp?

[Azrael]

So ALL LS1 cars are 350hp?

I take it you have not had one very long, or paid attention to this website and the many articles on the Gen III engines.

When stock F-Body cars are dynoing around 290-320, it is pretty fair guestimate that the 305 rating is underrated. Our stock 2002 Camaro A4 dynoed 318 rwhp... I just can't find that graph so I don't brag about it. That and our car is no longer stock...

[GA Country Boy]

I take it you have not had one very long, or paid attention to this website and the many articles on the Gen III engines.

When stock F-Body cars are dynoing around 290-320, it is pretty fair guestimate that the 305 rating is underrated. Our stock 2002 Camaro A4 dynoed 318 rwhp... I just can't find that graph so I don't brag about it. That and our car is no longer stock...

I have had an LS1 for about four years. I don't know if you consider that long. BTW, I WAS NOT referring to 'F' or 'Y' body cars, but LS1's. I think it is misleading to refer to engines as 'F' body, since 'F' body cars utilized other engines besides LS1's and have been around about 35 years.

So to say an 'F Body' dynos at xxxx, is that a 1967 or a 2002? Or ALL 'F Bodies' in between? And if LS1's, which ones? With which cam? Intake?

I was not and am not questioning what some LS1's are dynoing and agree that some were under rated despite utilizing four different cams between 1997 and 2002 and the integration of the LS6 intake in 2001.
I personally think they are all great motors regardless of a particular configuration since so much is interchangeable and there is so much potential whether it's in a 'F' or 'Y' body.

[Azrael]

I have had an LS1 for about four years. I don't know if you consider that long. BTW, I WAS NOT referring to 'F' or 'Y' body cars, but LS1's. I think it is misleading to refer to engines as 'F' body, since 'F' body cars utilized other engines besides LS1's and have been around about 35 years.

So to say an 'F Body' dynos at xxxx, is that a 1967 or a 2002? Or ALL 'F Bodies' in between? And if LS1's, which ones? With which cam? Intake?

I was not and am not questioning what some LS1's are dynoing and agree that some were under rated despite utilizing four different cams between 1997 and 2002 and the integration of the LS6 intake in 2001.
I personally think they are all great motors regardless of a particular configuration since so much is interchangeable and there is so much potential whether it's in a 'F' or 'Y' body.

You need to chill out. Again this is "LS1".com and thus it is easy enough to reference the fact that F-Body means LS1 F-Body. IF this was Camaro.com, Firebird.com, F-Body.com, then maybe your lack of focus would be less circumspect.

Since you have been around for a while, I don't understand your being hard headed on this issue. Yes despite the minor differences an LS1 is an LS1, and they all from 1997-2004 seem to dyno in the same range; whether in a Camaro, Firebird, Corvette, or GTO.

If I felt the need to reference other years of the cars I would call them by their popularized names...

[cailey37]

You need to chill out. Again this is "LS1".com and thus it is easy enough to reference the fact that F-Body means LS1 F-Body. IF this was Camaro.com, Firebird.com, F-Body.com, then maybe your lack of focus would be less circumspect.

Since you have been around for a while, I don't understand your being hard headed on this issue. Yes despite the minor differences an LS1 is an LS1, and they all from 1997-2004 seem to dyno in the same range; whether in a Camaro, Firebird, Corvette, or GTO.

If I felt the need to reference other years of the cars I would call them by their popularized names...

Carefull.....he'll pull out some book he read and tell you you're wrong because he read it and thats that.....

[GA Country Boy]

Carefull.....he'll pull out some book he read and tell you you're wrong because he read it and thats that.....

I am sorry if I have offended anyone by backing up what I say with facts and not just my personal opinions. As to me being "hardheaded", if YOU want everybody to believe that ALL LS1's regardless of cam and intake will dyno the same (pardon me "in the same range") so be it. Actually I guess most automotive engines will dyno in the "same range" (within 1000hp). So you 1997-2000 LS1 owners can save your money and don't bother installing an LS6 intake or even wonder if there is a difference in an LS1 with a .500 lift cam compared to a .479 lift cam or 119.5LSA compared to a 116LSA. Oh darn there I go again, talking facts. Yes I definitely have to stop reading and learning. And my being truthful seems to be an especially unacceptable habit.
AND my "lack of focus would be less circumspect" (circumspect=attentive to all the circumstances of a case or the probable consequences of an action; cautious; prudent; wary????) Talk about not making sense!

[cailey37]

I am sorry if I have offended anyone by backing up what I say with facts and not just my personal opinions. As to me being "hardheaded", if YOU want everybody to believe that ALL LS1's regardless of cam and intake will dyno the same (pardon me "in the same range") so be it. Actually I guess most automotive engines will dyno in the "same range" (within 1000hp). So you 1997-2000 LS1 owners can save your money and don't bother installing an LS6 intake or even wonder if there is a difference in an LS1 with a .500 lift cam compared to a .479 lift cam or 119.5LSA compared to a 116LSA. Oh darn there I go again, talking facts. Yes I definitely have to stop reading and learning. And my being truthful seems to be an especially unacceptable habit.
AND my "lack of focus would be less circumspect" (circumspect=attentive to all the circumstances of a case or the probable consequences of an action; cautious; prudent; wary????) Talk about not making sense!

I think you would piss off a lot less if you stopped trying to bring is aspects that may not apply to the threads....I think we all can read a book...hell I've read several on LSX motors.......like the guy said earlier...this is LS1.com so when certain terms are used we kinda get the picture....yes all motors will respond differently, which is something I think you and I had a go at in a different thread, but you will get in the same ball park if you use the same parts......the difference wont be much between the same motor combinations....

[Azrael]

"lack of focus would be less circumspect" (circumspect=attentive to all the circumstances of a case or the probable consequences of an action; cautious; prudent; wary????) Talk about not making sense!

In essence you are not being very prudent with your lack of disregarding the simple fact this is "LS1.com". Id est, not a crap shoot of which F-body I "may" be talking about. Shoot you just seem to me to want to start a flame war, well it really isn't worth it so feel free to continue off on your own tangents.

[Azrael]

this is LS1.com so when certain terms are used we kinda get the picture....yes all motors will respond differently, which is something I think you and I had a go at in a different thread, but you will get in the same ball park if you use the same parts......the difference wont be much between the same motor combinations....

That is precisely what I was getting at! Thanks! Hopefully now we can get this back on track.

[cailey37]

That is precisely what I was getting at! Thanks! Hopefully now we can get this back on track.

You know how it is....you get these guys that come on here guns a blazing and the first time someone doesn't agree with them they fire away....personally I think the guy is trying too hard to make people think he know's what he's talking about........quoting this....quoting that.....I'd almost venture to say he has no practical experience......anyway....enough of him!

Back to the topic......my personal opinion is if you take any LS1 motor put the same exact parts on them they will all pretty much dyno in the same range.......+- a few Horsepower........

[GA Country Boy]

Cailey37 wrote: "if you take any LS1 motor put the same exact parts on them they will all pretty much dyno in the same range..."

That is really astute. Did it take a lot of "practical experience" to figure that out? Or maybe ANY engine "with the same exact parts" "will all pretty much dyno in the same range"?

[cailey37]

Cailey37 wrote: "if you take any LS1 motor put the same exact parts on them they will all pretty much dyno in the same range..."

That is really astute. Did it take a lot of "practical experience" to figure that out? Or maybe ANY engine "with the same exact parts" "will all pretty much dyno in the same range"?

So what were you trying to say when you wrote:

"As to me being "hardheaded", if YOU want everybody to believe that ALL LS1's regardless of cam and intake will dyno the same (pardon me "in the same range") so be it. Actually I guess most automotive engines will dyno in the "same range" (within 1000hp). So you 1997-2000 LS1 owners can save your money and don't bother installing an LS6 intake or even wonder if there is a difference in an LS1 with a .500 lift cam compared to a .479 lift cam or 119.5LSA compared to a 116LSA."

You can keep being an idiot if you like and showing your ignorance on here all you want....just be prepared to spend the rest of your LS1 life on people's ignore lists. There's no reason to even argue with the likes of you. Hopefully people with a little commen sense will realize you're full of crap also.

[GA Country Boy]

Being on YOUR "ignore list" would be perfect Cailey37! Then you could continue to spout YOUR BS opinions without being offended by facts with references that are not just opinions. As to your post about me and books, when I disagreed with you about LS1's not being capable of handling 500rwhp I quoted from ONE book and listed a bunch of engine builders along with their phone numbers who had ALL had experience building LS1's well in excess of 500rwhp. The most truthful thing YOU have said so far is that the same motors with "the same exact parts" will "dyno in the same range". Well duh!

[cailey37]

Being on YOUR "ignore list" would be perfect Cailey37! Then you could continue to spout YOUR BS opinions without being offended by facts with references that are not just opinions. As to your post about me and books, when I disagreed with you about LS1's not being capable of handling 500rwhp I quoted from ONE book and listed a bunch of engine builders along with their phone numbers who had ALL had experience building LS1's well in excess of 500rwhp. The most truthful thing YOU have said so far is that the same motors with "the same exact parts" will "dyno in the same range". Well duh!

BS opinions.....lol...I like that one....I see you're the type that just believes everything that is printed........I'm starting to think you really don't have a LS1, any racing experience, or commen sense! Because if you did...and you knew ANYTHING about them you'd agree when I say that yes.....you can get over 500hp out of these motors but you will also give up some reliablility as you keep on pushing.....what I said was the more you push the motor the shorter it's life will be.....Its just a mechanical fact! Parts start to break....if you can't understand that then you're a bigger moron than I thought!

Now listen closely....because I'll only say this one time.....A stock LS1 motor with stock internals was meant to run comfortably around the 500hp range. You start pushing it over that then dont be surprised at the day it decides to give up the ship. If you're going to come on here and say that you're running 15lbs of boost on a stock block I'm going to throw the BS flag! If you are you wont be running it for long. You've had to change something! You would go a lot further on here with people if you had some practical experience in automobiles. Yes you can read books all you like and get some info but I'd suggest you compile a little info from a lot of sources and then come up with your own opinion......have you built a LS1? Have you seen a stock block pushed to the limit continually and see how long it will last?

[GA Country Boy]

cailey37, you keep changing the subject every post you make and what YOU said exactly is:" I dont care what anyone says about that one.....when you start pushing those blocks over 500hp you are just on borrowed time......they were designed to safely handle around 500hp......anything over that and you're pushing your luck". (Forced Induction/Suggestions/ Page 1) I replied with ONE book reference, ONE personal reference and SIX engine builders who have ALL had experience building LS1's in excess of 500HP along with their phone numbers. I don't know where you get this "15lbs of boost on a stock block" stuff, that's not something I ever said, but then you seem to like making it up as you go along. The initial post in that thread asked "How much does it cost to build the bottom end and what parts should I go with? Will the block hold the power?" Obviously we were not talking about stock internals, but responding to the question how much power will the LS1 block hold. You can continue to be ignorant and as nasty as you want, but calling me names and trying to 'shoot the messenger' wont change the message or the truth.

[cailey37]

cailey37, you keep changing the subject every post you make and what YOU said exactly is:" I dont care what anyone says about that one.....when you start pushing those blocks over 500hp you are just on borrowed time......they were designed to safely handle around 500hp......anything over that and you're pushing your luck". (Forced Induction/Suggestions/ Page 1) I replied with ONE book reference, ONE personal reference and SIX engine builders who have ALL had experience building LS1's in excess of 500HP along with their phone numbers. I don't know where you get this "15lbs of boost on a stock block" stuff, that's not something I ever said, but then you seem to like making it up as you go along. The initial post in that thread asked "How much does it cost to build the bottom end and what parts should I go with? Will the block hold the power?" Obviously we were not talking about stock internals, but responding to the question how much power will the LS1 block hold. You can continue to be ignorant and as nasty as you want, but calling me names and trying to 'shoot the messenger' wont change the message or the truth.

Hmmm....lets see....if the LS1 is so capable of making over 500hp, which I know it can, and be so reliable once you start throwing the power to it, which you keep on claiming, why is it that the C5R block is in all the GM factory race cars? I mean why dont they just pull a few blocks off the assembly line and use those.......if they are so reliable......Please......they are a great motor but any motor will lose some reliability if you keep adding power to it.....dont keep showing your ignorance.....it's really getting old.....