cobra

**2000T/A Guru** · 07-18-2007, 12:17 PM

How can that end the thread different people run different i personally have taken some lightly modded 04s pretty easily and i have beaten a few ls2 GTOs. Some have factory duds i guess or just cant drive. Then there are factory freaks where everything just works well, i had a friend with a stock 97 z28 run a 13.6 which i think is a factory freak lt1

**BLKCLOUD** · 07-18-2007, 12:27 PM

I had a bone stock 98 Cobra that went 13.6 @ 104 mph. Does that make it a factory freak?

**2000T/A Guru** · 07-18-2007, 01:23 PM

Possibly i dotn know what good times are for the 98 cobras

**BLKCLOUD** · 07-18-2007, 03:21 PM

My car was actually quite normal - I don't believe in "factory freaks". 13.6 for a bone stock LT1 is fast, but not that out of the ordinary. 13.6 for a 98 Cobra is pretty quick too, but not unheard of.

There are freak drivers, freak weather conditions, freak dynos, freaks of nature - but not factory freak cars. I would suggest that any number of the same model car (equally equipped) make within 3% of the same HP.

"Factory freak" is an internet fantasy.

**N20LT4** · 07-18-2007, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD

My car was actually quite normal - I don't believe in "factory freaks". 13.6 for a bone stock LT1 is fast, but not that out of the ordinary. 13.6 for a 98 Cobra is pretty quick too, but not unheard of.

There are freak drivers, freak weather conditions, freak dynos, freaks of nature - but not factory freak cars. I would suggest that any number of the same model car (equally equipped) make within 3% of the same HP.

"Factory freak" is an internet fantasy.

I believe in factory freaks, in the sense that not all cars are the same. I have owned many LT1's, and some were 'definitely' stronger than others. Me being a great driver

in my opinion, some of the cars just weren't as capable as others. "Factory freak" is simply an expression to me for a car that is above average.

**N20LT4** · 07-18-2007, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD

I had a bone stock 98 Cobra that went 13.6 @ 104 mph. Does that make it a factory freak?

And yes that does make it a freak. We both know SN95 4-6 Cobra's normally trap 99-101. 104 puts it up in LS1 territory. I've seen 13.6@101 for a '97, but that one was freaky...

**BLKCLOUD** · 07-18-2007, 04:25 PM

The car made 255 RWHP (SAE) - very similar to other 96-98 Cobras. What is "freakish" about that?

Virtually all these "freaks" can be explained by a top notch driver, an excellent track, a 'friendly' dyno operator (if we're racing dynos), great air at the track, and/or a combination of some or all of the above.

BTW....the seat of the pants if the world's biggest liar.

**N20LT4** · 07-18-2007, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD

The car made 255 RWHP (SAE) - very similar to other 96-98 Cobras. What is "freakish" about that?

Virtually all these "freaks" can be explained by a top notch driver, an excellent track, a 'friendly' dyno operator (if we're racing dynos), great air at the track, and/or a combination of some or all of the above.

BTW....the seat of the pants if the world's biggest liar.

Now come on 'CLOUD'...you sound like a veteran racer like myself, and we both know that some are stronger than others. 104 traps is rare. We aren't the only good drivers in the country that have raced in good conditions, and I must admit this is the first i've heard of a '96-98 Cobra going 104 -- bone-stock - ever. I'm not calling you a liar by no means, but i'm saying that car was one out of 50 - atleast.

**Roastem** · 07-18-2007, 04:36 PM

Factory freak is about the stupidest term I have ever heard. Maybe someone accidentally ported and polished the heads during their lunch break before it rolled off the assembly line? You know, those LS6 and LS1 cams look identical, maybe they mixed them up a time or two??

**BLKCLOUD** · 07-18-2007, 04:36 PM

Nope - it made 255 RWHP (SAE). That makes it quite normal, does it not? If you are a veteran racer, then you should be able to figure out how/why it went as quick/fast as it did (relatively speaking, of course).

I'll stick by my contention that equally-equipped cars of the same make/model make the same HP, +/- 3%.

**ImpalaSSpeed96** · 07-18-2007, 04:39 PM

I don't know Bob. I've seen quite a few cars go much faster than their equals on same days. One being a guy in our group that ran 13.4 bolt on out in St.Lou in 3300 feet of DA. Now granted, it wasn't streetable and had some weight reduction but it shouldn't have been running 13.4s and has always been a faster bolt on car by about .2 than any other Impala in its class. I don't possibly see how there can be factory freaks, but I've always believed it. Especially when I saw that bone stock WS6 vert running 13.0s all night in a auto, and the DA wasn't stupid. It was around 0, give or take. I will agree though, most of the factory freak times are attributed to weather. My car is going to be tripping 12s easily come November. Possibly 11s when I get some suspension work done and intake stuff taken care of once Feb hits. But it won't go lower than a 13.3-5 right now, have to test out the new set up. Weather is a huge factor......

Regardless, it turned out to be a good race sounds like. But the thing I hate most is when people compare their cars based on what they've beaten on the street. Take it to the track, then talk smack. My Imp will run away from a lot of LS1s at the track. Not on the street though.... Its great to hear about street races but not bashing other cars because of what happened on the street. I'll tell you right now, almost every mustang I run into on the street sucks. Totally different story at the track. You get to play with the big boys when you take it to the track.

**kyemt** · 07-18-2007, 04:41 PM

cars run different times, have different horsepower, there are alot of factors that depend on what a car can run, i mean i can say i run 10's stock its bs ive never been to a track. my point is all cars are different, just it was posted earlier maybe one of the assemblers thought hum im going make someone a bad ass car just for the hell of it u never know, there all different u just have to race and see what happens

**N20LT4** · 07-18-2007, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Roastem

Factory freak is about the stupidest term I have ever heard. Maybe someone accidentally ported and polished the heads during their lunch break before it rolled off the assembly line? You know, those LS6 and LS1 cams look identical, maybe they mixed them up a time or two??

Once you honestly analyze what you said, I think even you'll agree that was an ignorant post. Simple break down: Some bone-stock LS1 F-bodies dyno @ 300-307rwhp, while some dyno around the 260-270 ish - Despite having the same LS1, M6 or A4, whatever be the case, under the hood. Same 205cc heads, intake, and LS1 cam, but different power outputs. On dyno day, i've seen the same type of cars dyno'd on the same day, in the same condition, and vary widely in power numbers. Cars are different - period, and some are a little stronger than others.

**N20LT4** · 07-18-2007, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD

Nope - it made 255 RWHP (SAE). That makes it quite normal, does it not? If you are a veteran racer, then you should be able to figure out how/why it went as quick/fast as it did (relatively speaking, of course).

I'll stick by my contention that equally-equipped cars of the same make/model make the same HP, +/- 3%.

I'm going to put numbers and formulas on the back burner for a minute, and go for what I know - that is, what i've seen over the last decade. And that doesn't include a '96-98 Cobra trapping @ 104. I believe it could be possible - just never seen it. But like I said all cars aren't the same.

**Roastem** · 07-18-2007, 05:22 PM

Honestly, I would have to have 100 bone stock, identical, fresh-off-the-assembly-line cars, an ISO 9001 regulated dyno chamber, and dyno them all under exact atmospheric conditions, to believe that a car would have even 5% more power than its counterparts.

With anything, there is a standard deviation. But the deviation in the case of an N/A car would have to be pretty low.

I equate it to a guy slapping a high flow lid on a car, and saying DAMN, she pulls like a BEAST now, I swear it spins harder in second! haha

These guys that claim they put down 20 more rwhp bone stock are just full of it.

Hey, I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, just trying to make sense of it all.

**BLKCLOUD** · 07-18-2007, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by N20LT4

Once you honestly analyze what you said, I think even you'll agree that was an ignorant post. Simple break down: Some bone-stock LS1 F-bodies dyno @ 300-307rwhp, while some dyno around the 260-270 ish - Despite having the same LS1, M6 or A4, whatever be the case, under the hood.

The same year car, on the same day, on the same dyno, with the same SAE correction factor, with similar mileage/upkeep?

Bologna. I too have seen an LS1 dyno in the 260s, and another dyno in the 300s. However, they were different years, on different dynos, on different days, with different correction factors.

Same 205cc heads, intake, and LS1 cam, but different power outputs. On dyno day, i've seen the same type of cars dyno'd on the same day, in the same condition, and vary widely in power numbers. Cars are different - period, and some are a little stronger than others.

Some are a little stronger than others? Sure. Perhaps 10 RWHP? Ok - I'll buy that. 40 RWHP like you implied above? Nope. Not for the same model year, same type of tranny, same mechanical condition, etc.

Originally Posted by N20LT4

I'm going to put numbers and formulas on the back burner for a minute, and go for what I know - that is, what i've seen over the last decade. And that doesn't include a '96-98 Cobra trapping @ 104. I believe it could be possible - just never seen it. But like I said all cars aren't the same.

Thanks. Not believing is the most sincere form of flattery out there. And I'll say it again - the car dyno'd at 255 RWHP. If you've "seen" all these cars for the past "decade", you will know that this is right about average for a 96-98 Cobra. And once again, this makes my point about "freaks"...ie...there are "freak" conditions, drivers, tracks, weather conditions, etc - but not factory freak cars.

Originally Posted by Roastem

Honestly, I would have to have 100 bone stock, identical, fresh-off-the-assembly-line cars, an ISO 9001 regulated dyno chamber, and dyno them all under exact atmospheric conditions, to believe that a car would have even 5% more power than its counterparts.

With anything, there is a standard deviation. But the deviation in the case of an N/A car would have to be pretty low.

I equate it to a guy slapping a high flow lid on a car, and saying DAMN, she pulls like a BEAST now, I swear it spins harder in second! haha

These guys that claim they put down 20 more rwhp bone stock are just full of it.

Hey, I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here, just trying to make sense of it all.

Ding ding. Ding ding. Ding ding.

Bob

**N20LT4** · 07-18-2007, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by BLKCLOUD

The same year car, on the same day, on the same dyno, with the same SAE correction factor, with similar mileage/upkeep?

Bologna. I too have seen an LS1 dyno in the 260s, and another dyno in the 300s. However, they were different years, on different dynos, on different days, with different correction factors.

Some are a little stronger than others? Sure. Perhaps 10 RWHP? Ok - I'll buy that. 40 RWHP like you implied above? Nope. Not for the same model year, same type of tranny, same mechanical condition, etc.

Thanks. Not believing is the most sincere form of flattery out there. And I'll say it again - the car dyno'd at 255 RWHP. If you've "seen" all these cars for the past "decade", you will know that this is right about average for a 96-98 Cobra. And once again, this makes my point about "freaks"...ie...there are "freak" conditions, drivers, tracks, weather conditions, etc - but not factory freak cars.

Ding ding. Ding ding. Ding ding.

Bob

WOW. You analyze my thoughts very deeply. It's a little sick, but flattering to say the least

**BLKCLOUD** · 07-18-2007, 05:53 PM

Nice retort. Guess it was expected, though....I'd probably do the same if I were in your shoes.

**N20LT4** · 07-18-2007, 05:57 PM

Anymore of this BLKCLOUD, and i'll be having nightmares about you

**ImpalaSSpeed96** · 07-18-2007, 06:07 PM

Dyno racing is gay anyway. You can take two cars that put out the exact same HP, hell the same perf mods for that matter but I guarantee you you can get one to go faster, probably close to 2-3 tenths faster. Suspension baby! Just hit the track, thats all that matters.

I too agree that there won't be a 30hp difference seen between exact stock vehicles. I will however say that I can see a .5 difference easily based on uncontrollable factors be it the driver, track prep, wx or whatever......

Its funny how these topics fishtail so easily sometimes. Nice kill dude!!!