When Racing Cobra's, have your FACTS STRAIGHT!!

[cam02ss]

nope...03/04 cobra's aren't slow...why do you think as an LS1 owner i have it modded all to hell with a cam that the pistons had to be fly cut for to fit with my heads.

it's all fun and games in the end...there are wicked cobras out there just like there are wicked LS1's, etc.

[Roastem]

I am one LS1 owner,,, well former LS1 owner that will tell you 03/04 cobras are NOT slow. Cobras of older years, well i will not argue with you on that. I would rather the LS1 myself, and that was exactly what i had until the terminators hit the streets.

What did you have done to the LS1? Did you have it fully modded, heads, cam, etc.?

[hurtindude]

What did you have done to the LS1? Did you have it fully modded, heads, cam, etc.?

it had the basic bolt ons.. lid w/ k&n filter, cat back... replaced roller rockers (only cuz i had needle bearings in my oil! yeiks!!), gears and a shifter.. thats about it..

no heads, no cam, no weight reduction, no intake no nos, no forced induction...

[hurtindude]

I am with the dark side now, but hey, The terminator is just a nice and fast car that is easy (I mean easy) to mod out. And yes that is alot of races for 2 weeks, My first race was on my test drive (one of those new cadillacs that looks like a vette) and I was sold then and there. Everyone one wants to race this car when Im out, even on my lunch break from work, its like they all have something to prove? Havent lost yet!! But Im looking for a new zo6 or a GT 500 to see how I do against some 500 horsepower rides.

I am slowly forgeting about my Trans Am, I might even get one of those personalized plates that says LS1 ETR or I8A VET or GM THIS, Something stupid like that.

Ford got it right with this car!! I'm very impressed, About time huh?

damn your bitch got a nice squisher on her man... tap tap...

[Roastem]

it had the basic bolt ons.. lid w/ k&n filter, cat back... replaced roller rockers (only cuz i had needle bearings in my oil! yeiks!!), gears and a shifter.. thats about it..

no heads, no cam, no weight reduction, no intake no nos, no forced induction...

Maybe you would have a different opinion if you would have fully modded it. 120 more rwhp tends to do that to ya!

[hurtindude]

Maybe you would have a different opinion if you would have fully modded it. 120 more rwhp tends to do that to ya!

i am sure... the thing was no fun to work on though, even for a basic tune up... i am used to easier stuff i guess... i used to own a 91 LX 5.0 and you don't get any easier then that... my cobra is fairly simple and straight forward as well...

i know they stuff the motor in there like they do for weight distribution, god knows they had room to move it forward more if they wanted too.

thats why i was put off by the idea of heads, because they look like a nightmare to get off w/ the engine in the car since more then half the motor is in under the firewall.

someone once told me you can't ge tthe rear head bolts out because they hit the firewall, and you lift the head off the block w/ the bolts unscrewed but still in the head... has to go back in same way.

i don't know, never tried, just what i heard.

[Roastem]

I just did a head swap on my Z the last couple weeks. I prolly told you about that already. I had a lot of stuff to do, so it has taken about 2 10 hr Saturdays, and about 4 or 5 2/3 hr after-work days. And a whole lot of bread.

Hell, I am just now getting to the damn blown slave, and that was the reason I parked it!!!

That trans is proving to be the biggest headache of all, just cause I don't have the proper workplace. Heads weren't that bad, except I had two rear bolts on the driver's side that acted like the threads were stripped or sumthin'. I think it was cause GM put some dried loctite garbage on there, and caused a seal, so as the bolt was going down it was compressing the chamber, instead of allowing air to pass. Hope I don't get a nasty coolant leak. I will be real f*k'n MAD.

Otherwise, the head swap wasn't that bad. I put the cam in there too, it wasn't too bad either. That damn tranny is longer than the driveshaft, seems like. Looks real heavy. I am going to have to dead lift it to get it back in, and I am not looking forward to lining up the input shaft, dead lifting it, AND trying to get a bolt in her p*ssy at the same time.

Gonna be like givin' to a woman and at the same time. REAL FRICKIN HARD!!! haha

You wanna help hurtindude, I'll buy the beer!!!

[Pumped03]

so a non supercharged dohc 4.6 with 315 hp and a 5 speed will walk an ls1.... thats is total BS in my book..my formy ran 12.56 @ 110 with heddars and 373 gears..let the GTs come let the Cobras coem to hinesville..we have some LS1's down here that will hand out asswhippins with out fear...they kinda like cockroaches..they need to know their place in the food chain..

Lame.

[Pumped03]

hmmm. and here I thought this was ls1.com not p****mustang.com.........
Stock n/a cobras are slow as hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will not walk an Ls1; period.
S/c cobras are slow too.......go to fords forum and brag about that bulls*** car. Shut up and race...stop reading magazines and specs...the real test is out on the street. See ya there mustangs...cobras....SVTs.....

Only a chicken crap races on the street. Take it to the track. Or are ye skeeeerd.

I owned 99 and 01 Cobras and with bolt-ons including 4.10's they'll give a bolt-on LS1 all they can handle.

S/c cobras are slow too

I'm real impressed.

[Pumped03]

Cam/bolt-on 06 Z06's are putting like 600 plus rwhp to the ground! N/A!!

You savin' up for a KB hurtindude?

If I had an 03, I would be drooling all over a KB for mine.

A Whipple is 2.3 ltr compared to a 2.2 for the older KB's for 03's like I run. The Whipple will make more power at less revs. KB does have a 2.4 and just came out with a 2.6 ltr.

[Pumped03]

Actually, scratch that twin-scew crap, I would go for the Procharger! I heard those things are super nasty with a Procharger kit, and you can use the stock intercooler. I saw a dyno graph of one, and the torque curve looked just like the HP curve. That would help your launch and save your IRS from nasty torque hits.

I'd like to see that link. All I have seen at 20 psi are nowhere near a screw blower on torque. Mine makes 580 rwt well below 4k rpm. If you seen a PC making 580 he had to be pushing well over 25 psi. That's one reason not many run a PC on an 03/04. To get the low end you have to pump a lot of air through it. I'm talking about a street driveable car with the stock bottom end. At 25 psi the bottom end will fall out of an 03 eventually.

[Roastem]

I'd like to see that link. All I have seen at 20 psi are nowhere near a screw blower on torque. Mine makes 580 rwt well below 4k rpm. If you seen a PC making 580 he had to be pushing well over 25 psi. That's one reason not many run a PC on an 03/04. To get the low end you have to pump a lot of air through it. I'm talking about a street driveable car with the stock bottom end. At 25 psi the bottom end will fall out of an 03 eventually.

I meant the SLOPE of the curve. Screw type superchargers make massive low-end torque, but the curve decreases, or stays pretty much flat, with RPM's. With centrifugals the low end torque is not impressive, but it improves with rpm, like the hp curve.

That is a sweet time on that Cobra by the way.

04 with Procharger, note the torque curve increases with engine speed.

http://www.mustangmuscleonline.com/FeatureRide3.aspx

I am sure you have seen thousands of 03 roots graphs where the torque curve skyrockets then levels and decreases with RPM. No need to even give a link.

Also, check out where a Z06 with a twin turbo set at 15 psi MADE MORE POWER than an 03 twin turbo at 16 psi.

Chalk one up for the 2V LS6 engine vs. the "boost-friendly" 4V Cobra.
http://www.turbochargedpower.com/

BTW, I never said the Procharger would make more torque, I said it would RESEMBLE the HP curve.

[hurtindude]

I meant the SLOPE of the curve. Screw type superchargers make massive low-end torque, but the curve decreases, or stays pretty much flat, with RPM's. With centrifugals the low end torque is not impressive, but it improves with rpm, like the hp curve.

That is a sweet time on that Cobra by the way.

04 with Procharger, note the torque curve increases with engine speed.

http://www.mustangmuscleonline.com/FeatureRide3.aspx

I am sure you have seen thousands of 03 roots graphs where the torque curve skyrockets then levels and decreases with RPM. No need to even give a link.

Also, check out where a Z06 with a twin turbo set at 15 psi MADE MORE POWER than an 03 twin turbo at 16 psi.

Chalk one up for the 2V LS6 engine vs. the "boost-friendly" 4V Cobra.
http://www.turbochargedpower.com/

BTW, I never said the Procharger would make more torque, I said it would RESEMBLE the HP curve.

our cobras have no umph with less then 4Gs on the tach anyway.. so for me, a twin screw vs a procharger isn't a desision made based upon low end torque.

i personally like the prochargers more because of less heat soak compaired to any charger on top of the motor, of the factory "heaton", and they are more efficent..

i am with roastem on this one, procharger all the way.

As for the Z06 making more power... well thats to be expected at similar boost levels... more displacement.. and we all know the tried and true saying that there is no replacement for displacement... Z06 also has much higher compression, which gives additional power as well. The 4v cobra is designed for boost w/ 4v and low compression... so rather then displacement and compression, you add more boost and fuel... thats your power adder...

at some point you are going to start to grenade things, but that is true on any car.

[Edgar Limon]

I need a supercharger i am getting beat by cars that have turbo a mustang GT had a turbo and did not tell me and smoked me he ran 12.5 and i ran 13.8. I hate cobras one beat me in quater mile he ran 13.1 and i ran 13.5. How embarrasing i lost to 2 mustangs.

[Pumped03]

I meant the SLOPE of the curve. Screw type superchargers make massive low-end torque, but the curve decreases, or stays pretty much flat, with RPM's. With centrifugals the low end torque is not impressive, but it improves with rpm, like the hp curve.

That is a sweet time on that Cobra by the way.

04 with Procharger, note the torque curve increases with engine speed.

http://www.mustangmuscleonline.com/FeatureRide3.aspx

I am sure you have seen thousands of 03 roots graphs where the torque curve skyrockets then levels and decreases with RPM. No need to even give a link.

Also, check out where a Z06 with a twin turbo set at 15 psi MADE MORE POWER than an 03 twin turbo at 16 psi.

Chalk one up for the 2V LS6 engine vs. the "boost-friendly" 4V Cobra.
http://www.turbochargedpower.com/

BTW, I never said the Procharger would make more torque, I said it would RESEMBLE the HP curve.

Torque gets you off the line(ET) and HP gets you down the track(speed). A roots blower will not drop off that much. I'll try to post a link to my Eaton and KB dyno sheets. It's the area under the curve that makes a good race car and getting that torque down low improves that greatly.

For a daily driver, you can't beat a roots blower especially stop light to stop light although I won't street race. Usually if someone messes with me I can give the car 3/4 throttle in third at 60 mph and it will roast the tires but I'm also running a 3.90 gear. That's my limit of showing my ass. It usually sends most looking elsewhere.

I didn't read your link but it isn't an apples/apples comparison. To begin with, if you put forced induction on a car with 10.5 CR then it will make more power per pound of boost compared to an engine with 8.5:1 like the 03 Cobra. And it will be making more junk per pound of boost when the pistons melt. FI needs 8.5 CR or less. Anything over that is not good especially appoaching 10:1. Like I said, I didn't read your link so I don't know what each engine has done to it or size in CI's. But, I will tell you this, a 281 four valve engine will make more power than a 350 2v push rod engine at the same boost levels because of the heads on the 4v. The owner of Accufab runs a basic 281 4V with twin turbos and he's running over 200 in NMRA.

[Pumped03]

This is my last dyno with the Eaton using a chiller I made for the IC. It dyno'd about as high as any stock unported Eaton I've seen. The curves are on seprate graphs but you can still see all the area under the curve and how raising torque down low increase that area. It means the amount of work it does. HP is work. The torque may have dropped off but at 5000 RPM it's HP that is getting the car down the track at speed.



This is with the KB and a crappy tune. It runs pig rich at high RPM's but it's safe. This is about the same boost as the Eaton graph above around 19 psi. You can see the difference in parasitic loss of roots versus screw. If you look at a PC, the torque will lessen the area under the curve. You'd have to really up the boost to run with a KB. A PC at 19 psi on an 03 will lose badly to an 03 with a KB at the same boost.

[Roastem]

But, I will tell you this, a 281 four valve engine will make more power than a 350 2v push rod engine at the same boost levels because of the heads on the 4v.

Displacement doesn't mean anything? Your spicket might be a little bigger, but your bucket is 20% smaller.

That LS6 engine had head work done and low compression pistons, if I am not mistaken.

LS series heads that have port work and big valves can flow a massive amount of air. Vipers and Z06's both have 2V engines, the Cobra has a 4V and needs a supercharger to match their output?

How many N/A 281 cube 4V Cobra's have you seen that make 500 rwhp. Not too many, I gather. You can find Z06's all over putting that down.

Now if you had 351 cubes and a 4V motor, then you can start talkin' N/A turkey. I don't know why they haven't added big cubes to a 4V engine. I would love to see a 429 cu. in. 4V motor in a new Cobra. Add a supercharger to that baby and well...it will get ugly for the competition.

[cam02ss]

"How many N/A 281 cube 4V Cobra's have you seen that make 500 rwhp. Not too many, I gather. You can find Z06's all over putting that down."

Hell i have a hillbilly raggedy ass 347 camaro and its putting down damn near that N/A

[dandylion]

Hey Roastem, sorry to get off toipc here but... that looks like a big ass catfish on your avatar. How big was it?

[Marc87GN]

I need a supercharger i am getting beat by cars that have turbo a mustang GT had a turbo and did not tell me and smoked me he ran 12.5 and i ran 13.8. I hate cobras one beat me in quater mile he ran 13.1 and i ran 13.5. How embarrasing i lost to 2 mustangs.

If he had a turbocharged Mustang and only ran a 12.5, he should be shot. My turbocharged 99 GT ran a well documented 10.92 on the bone stock longblock & pump gas. I had a great setup and DFI tuned by Job Spetter Jr. but 12.5 I hope was at 6 psi or less. Then it would make sense.

Hell, my little 231 ci(Now built 235) would run that with $300 in mods. Don't be embarrassed, I killed many unsuspecting GM vehicles with my GT. My GN is well built also and I spared a C5 today that was screwing with me. Getting older and having a son has calmed me down I guess.