Best Mild Cam for DD ls1???

**Bottesini** · 10-08-2007, 12:46 PM

Well for me I want something that I can drive 800 miles in a week and not worry. So maybe even a little bigger then ? For me it only needs to be mildly smooth. I might find things a bit radical since I find LTs and TD just the right volume for my exhaust

I figure if I am going to all the trouble of getting a cam and the supporting valve train might as well do it right once, but of course this is my DD and I have to worry about making lots of long road trips in her.

Mine is also a M6 so a little lope does not bother me either

**Firebirdjones** · 10-08-2007, 01:14 PM

It's hard to say. It depends on what you want out of your car as far as power too.

It doesn't sound like you want a valve spring killer and it sounds like you are mainly just driving this car on the street and want a little sound.

I am old school and used to driving old muscle cars around with 260 at .050 cams, so my advice is very different from others.

But to stay safe, the 224/581 cam sounds like something that will work good for you. You could tighten the lobe seperation to 110-112 and it may have a slight lope, depending alot on the tuneup.

That is a very tame camshaft in my opinion and should run on the street for thousands of miles without issues.

**SSwt00SS** · 10-08-2007, 02:16 PM

as i stated, my Comp 224/224 .581/.581 @112lsa has been a blast to driven for the last 7,500 miles...

nothing bad with putting down 444rwhp/395rwtq with my current setup (w/the 224) at all...

**Calico** · 10-09-2007, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by secondgearscratch

nope. im saying its ignorant to think that a gm product is any better than a shop who specializes in gm products. i wonder why no one hardly runs the hot cam in the ls1 since gm manufactures it. maybe, just maybe, there are (oh my god) better options!!!

youre right.

Sure there are better options, however changing springs every 10,000 miles or so makes those options less appealing to me.

**Firebirdjones** · 10-09-2007, 03:46 AM

Originally Posted by Calico

Sure there are better options, however changing springs every 10,000 miles or so makes those options less appealing to me.

Not many hydraulic rollers out there that are aggressive enough to be valve spring eaters so thats really not an issue except for the most extreme.

Most hydraulic rollers only require about 150 lbs. at the seat and somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 lbs. over the nose. Thats baby pressures and would be enough for hydraulic rollers well over the .600 lift range. Any more pressure and the lifters would bleed down. Some flat tappet hydraulic cams have enough spring pressure to run some of the small hydraulic rollers.

When you get into valve spring issues is when you step up to large solid rollers that require over 200-250 lbs. at the seat and 600 lbs. over the nose. I have ran springs like these on the street. They are not designed for long periods of use and generate a ton of heat and eventually break. They are designed to be run for short RPM bursts 1/4 mile at a time,,,and even then it's recomended to have routine valve spring changes after so many passes.

This really isn't an issue with hydraulic rollers if the springs are correct for the application.

**nhraformula** · 10-09-2007, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by Calico

I have and it's what i want. I'm not looking for an all out race car. I want something EASY on the springs, something that will need a mild tune, and bolt on as possible. Is something wrong with that?

if you did do your homework, you would see that nobody runs the hotcam and a cam like the 224 is totally streetable.

**nhraformula** · 10-09-2007, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by Calico

Sure there are better options, however changing springs every 10,000 miles or so makes those options less appealing to me.

the only reason you would change out springs every 10k with with a rather high lift cam.
with DD cams, you wont need to change out the spring untill every 25k

**Firebirdjones** · 10-09-2007, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by nhraformula

the only reason you would change out springs every 10k with with a rather high lift cam.
with DD cams, you wont need to change out the spring untill every 25k

I have had DD cams as you call them go much further than 25K and never show any need to change the springs.
Granted all springs lose a little tension over time, even upon initial break in, but it's normal for any spring and not enough to warrant changing. They can be periodically checked over time relatively easy if you have the tool. But I have found even after 70,000 miles the springs were still sufficient. Even after 8 years of service one of my cars is still running the exact same ET and MPH it did when it was fresh, and shows no signs of spring fatigue.

As long as the springs were setup correctly with the correct installed height and correct seat pressure you should get many thousands of miles of trouble free driving.

**bgable** · 10-09-2007, 12:44 PM

if i got one of these 2 cams( TSP 233/239

or Torquer V.2) how often would you think id be havein to change springs?

**Bottesini** · 10-09-2007, 12:48 PM

I am a bit curious as to what others consider a big cam. One that would cause issues with a street car, such as spring fatigue.

**Wheeler99WS6** · 10-09-2007, 03:04 PM

I would consider the Magic stics or TRex big cams, anything around 240 duration or higher with over .625 lift.

**Firebirdjones** · 10-09-2007, 05:07 PM

I am somewhat with Wheeler on this. Anything over 240 degrees at .050 is starting to get on the large side for most people. If it's over .600 lift it's probably starting to get on the large side as well.

Valve spring life is a tough one to answer. It depends on how you drive the car, (high rpms all the time) and whether the car is stored during winter months and never driven. Storage is the hardest on valve springs.

I myself back the valves off during long winter storage, especially on the solid cams I run. Hyrdaulic cams are not as much of an issue since the lifters will bleed down slightly, but backing off the valves is still good practice on the more aggressive cams.
Some more elaborate engines use spray bars in the valve covers to spray pressurized oil on the springs to keep them cool, which extends the life of the springs.

Lighter valve train components will be easier on the springs and extend the life but are more expensive to buy.

Checking with the cam manufacture on the springs required, then making sure they are installed at the correct height and have the correct pressures are critical to long spring life. A good machine shop should ask for your cam card with the spring specs, so when they are rebuilding the cylinder heads they can properly setup the springs. If they don't ask , be leary.

And don't always rely on aftermarket cylinder head companies to send you cylinder heads with the correct springs either. Always check them. I got screwed on this with AFR a while back that set me back another $1,000 to fix correctly. Thats another story.

You can also get into different materials for springs that gets pretty involved as well as designs like the behive springs you commonly see on LS1's.
I don't see why a cam of around .600 lift or less wouldn't go thousands of miles without issues. I have been doing it for years without problems.

Talk to some camshaft manufactures and see what they recommend. You could even have a camshaft custom ground for your particular car and needs. It doesn't cost anymore and usually is worth a little more power. It's what I have been doing on my cars for years and been pretty happy.

**bgable** · 10-09-2007, 05:44 PM

whats the cost on gettin springs replaced labor included?

**Bottesini** · 10-09-2007, 06:42 PM

Thanks for the info, trying to do as much research as I can on which cams will work best with the LS1. This thread has defiantly provided some useful insight.

**346ci** · 10-10-2007, 08:58 AM

No to go off topic, but could someone explain what the numbers 224/224 .581/.581@112lsa mean? Sorry if it's an amatuer question but I'd like to learn. Thanks.

weberje · 11-05-2007, 08:44 PM

Here 346ci, check this out. Fairly informative.....

http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=23

**SSwt00SS** · 11-06-2007, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by 346ci

No to go off topic, but could someone explain what the numbers 224/224 .581/.581@112lsa mean? Sorry if it's an amatuer question but I'd like to learn. Thanks.

means its a single pattern cam with the numbers being symetrical. a dual pattern cam for example would be one like this: 231/237 .598/.595 @112+2 lsa...

i have that exact cam (the 224). great mild cam for a DD. im putting down the numbers 444rwhp/395rwtq w/that cam and other mods...

this will tell you all you need to know about cam specs...

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327734

weberje · 11-06-2007, 03:34 PM

Don't mean to pirate the thread- I know a guy sellin Thunder Racing 224/224 112lsa cam and Total Engine Airflow Stage 3 Heads- any ideas? Are they any good together? This'll be my first cam swap, so am learning. I'm sure it's a moot point, but are headers necessary for the swap? I'm tryin to save up for those too.

**Redlinez** · 11-11-2007, 05:34 AM

You know, I've been through this same excruciating decision myself. Probably all for nothing. I disagree about several "theories" and cam experts. My hotcammed 99 Z ran great and sounded awesome. I ran 12.50's on street tires with no headers, LS1 intake, factory cats and a HPP3 tuner. I ran 12.0's at 119 on DR's with my 224/228 581 581 112+2 XER cam with Jethot lT's, ORY, LS6 intake, etc. However, that last one had a monthly CEL after installing the Jethots saying the driver side 02 heater had failed. That got real old. My current car has QTP's and so far no CEl. I have a Futral high lift cam about to go in and still have cold feet thinking the old 224/228 was great. Allan says the storage or lack of driving doesn't hurt the valvesprings in any way and I should expect 50k miles out of the Patriot extremes. I guess it's like asking for estimates on your home. 4 experts, 4 prices, 4 different ways to do it, all suppposedly within code and structurally correct.

**99'CajunFirehawk157** · 11-12-2007, 08:01 PM

So if someone was just to do a cam install, say one of the ones you guys are talking about minus the stall speed for an a4, whats the ballpark cost estimate just for ALL of the parts needed to add a new cam alone?

PLMK