How can we stop this?

[nhraformula]

Look how these fine upstanding non union guys are doing thanks to government "bailouts"
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wall-S...82030.html?x=0

[wheeliE-maxx]

most people who dislike unions would feel the same about the bailouts

[HOBS]

Subscribed. I was always under the belief that the majority of unions were beneficial to the average worker. Who here that is for/against unions has actually belonged to one besides Sarge and NHRA? Is it optional to be in the union if you work for say GM or is it kind of like we offer it you have take it type of thing?

[Schmalgar]

Criminal huh, what about the fine non union people at ENRON for example, what about teh bankers and all the other wonderful non union people that got the economy where it is today?


You haters wanna bash unions whatever.
The powers to be at any company are Not your friends and are only looking out for themselves. The downfall of any company is corporate greed, plain and simple.

Pointing out that some non-union executives are criminals too in no way disproves my statement.

Also, please explain to me how you think a union would have prevented Enron executives from cooking the books and swindling away the employee's retirement funds? Or how a union would've stopped the banking industry from giving stupid loans to stupid people? That seems to be your suggestion, but I don't see how it would have made a difference in this example. You're arguing apples with oranges here, these are examples of totally different, unrelated problems within our business world...


.

[Sarge]

Yes any lawyer would take on my case, but "I" would have to pay for it.
As for bargaining, guys who are non union engineers make 40% less than us.
Now as for unions preying on people, yes they go after business owners so that average Joe can have a honest living wages.
There were 1000s of bankers, loan companies and so on that were charged with nothing but given billions of dollars so the company would not fold.

Those are basically blogs and you post that as a reference, you can do better come on.
As for money put into the union and then you leave, you get back pension payments that were taken out from your check.
85% of the work force is non union simply cause companies spend billions every year on union busting lawyers, services and scare tactics.

You need to look up the definition of contingency. Do not need a Union to prosecute wrongful termination friend. At no cost to you.

40% more for the same job? You make my point for me. Do you produce 40% more or better products? No you do not. And the consumer and the company pay and pay and pay....while our jobs go trotting over seas because of the cost of labor. I would be far from proud of screwing the company /consumers/the country over that fact. Socialism does not work....eventually the gravy train runs out of other peoples money or competition wipes you out.

That is the core of the issue with Socialist/Unions. They eliminate free market competition. It does not work.

You make mention of management/execs/bankers stealing money and cooking books. I struggle here with your point as it relates to the sham of Unions. Or the working man for that matter. Totally clueless as to the analogy or example/point your trying to make. Help an old guy out here. Management (both Union and Non Union Companies) and Union Management all do the same thing if you have scumbags in position of power. Lots of examples of that. Executives and Union Executives get a go to jail card. As they should.

[Sarge]

Look how these fine upstanding non union guys are doing thanks to government "bailouts"
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wall-S...82030.html?x=0

Please see last paragraph of post above.

Are you trying to say Unions would eliminate dishonest people in management somehow? Unions? Are you kidding me? The most corrupt organizations the world have ever known are Unions. If you are wanting a Google cut and paste strategy....I think I would embrace a different strategy to support Union labor or the benefits to the consumer by buying Union built products....other than they are more expensive ....

[nhraformula]

Pointing out that some non-union executives are criminals too in no way disproves my statement.

Also, please explain to me how you think a union would have prevented Enron executives from cooking the books and swindling away the employee's retirement funds? Or how a union would've stopped the banking industry from giving stupid loans to stupid people?
Pointing out that corruption exists at non union companys, not at all saying a union would of stopped it. Some of you accuse unions of being the devil when in fact the way these guys fucked over people makes any union scandals look small time.
.

You need to look up the definition of contingency. Do not need a Union to prosecute wrongful termination friend. At no cost to you.

40% more for the same job? You make my point for me. Do you produce 40% more or better products? No you do not. And the consumer and the company pay and pay and pay....while our jobs go trotting over seas because of the cost of labor. I would be far from proud of screwing the company /consumers/the country over that fact. Socialism does not work....eventually the gravy train runs out of other peoples money or competition wipes you out.

That is the core of the issue with Socialist/Unions. They eliminate free market competition. It does not work.

.

40% more is capitalism at its finest. The company wanted schooled engineers with experience, something the non union guys dont have.

Please see last paragraph of post above.

Are you trying to say Unions would eliminate dishonest people in management somehow? Unions? Are you kidding me? The most corrupt organizations the world have ever known are Unions. If you are wanting a Google cut and paste strategy....I think I would embrace a different strategy to support Union labor or the benefits to the consumer by buying Union built products....other than they are more expensive ....

Not at all saying unions would of did anything, just pointing out the biggest F you to Joe citizen in the nations history was done in by corporate America.
Point being none were unionized companies as a few of you act as if unions are the downfalls of companies when in fact they are not.

Look at the profits of UPS (unionized) and its non unionized counter part FEDEX.
Both are American companies that offer a service that another country cannot like China for example.
Shipping threw FEDEX is no cheaper than threw UPS.

[Sarge]

LOL...so Union people are the only ones with degrees now? Oh Lord!

I still fail to understand your point of criminals and the union. I just do not get it at all. Union "leadership" has ripped off the working men and women of this country for billions. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-110758-2504r/
So what does this have to do with the validity of a Union in todays American society? I just do not get your argument at all friend.

Look....if you wish to belong to a Socialist Orginization knock yourself out.
Union membership has dropped like a refridgerator off a cliff the past decade(s) and continues to fall. About the only people in Unions these days are unskilled.
Seen any technolgoy companies that are unionized? Nope. You know why? Because the Union kills self thinking/ free thinking and regulates all it's Socialist members to putting the red wire on the red post for the same wage....regardless how well one employee does versus another.

From a consumer standpoint.....what is the advantage of buying a Socialist union made product versus a non union made product?

[Huskerz1]

In general and not considering unions such as the UAW or others that are MAJOR political contributors and have a lobby organization in Washington, I think skilled union labor puts out a better product than the cheap ass contracting and subcontracting by companies using up from the border taco bender labor.

For example I used to belong to the CWA when I worked for a communications company that installed business phone systems. The company was/is extremely profittable and it really was not an issue every three years during contract negotiations. The company had base line educational requirements to be employed there. Some of these were requirements were a HS Diploma, at least an Associates degree in Electronics, an FCC License, etc. The company would invest in the employee hired would and send him/her to a school that taught the installation process of a certain business phone switch that was designated a need for the company. That employee would become and expert in the field pertaining to that particular switch. Whether it be NEAC, Northern Telecom, ROLM, AVAYA switches etc. The company had techs for each switch. Not all customers want the same switch. This is "skilled labor". This is not an illegal doing shovel work or a door panel installer making $78 and hour. The company's reputation relies on its trained skilled labor services. The company and union work together in a non-adversarial manner to achieve eachothers goals and needs.
This is really the norm out in the world with regards to union company relationships no matter the field. Unions like the UAW and such get the publicity and so forth. However, I find that most union employees and leadership that I know would never jeopardize their place of employment by strong arming for more benefits during hard economic times . They all need jobs man.

[bluehawk2000]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGd0gD0QNE[/ame]

[Sarge]

In general and not considering unions such as the UAW or others that are MAJOR political contributors and have a lobby organization in Washington, I think skilled union labor puts out a better product than the cheap ass contracting and subcontracting by companies using up from the border taco bender labor.

For example I used to belong to the CWA when I worked for a communications company that installed business phone systems. The company was/is extremely profittable and it really was not an issue every three years during contract negotiations. The company had base line educational requirements to be employed there. Some of these were requirements were a HS Diploma, at least an Associates degree in Electronics, an FCC License, etc. The company would invest in the employee hired would and send him/her to a school that taught the installation process of a certain business phone switch that was designated a need for the company. That employee would become and expert in the field pertaining to that particular switch. Whether it be NEAC, Northern Telecom, ROLM, AVAYA switches etc. The company had techs for each switch. Not all customers want the same switch. This is "skilled labor". This is not an illegal doing shovel work or a door panel installer making $78 and hour. The company's reputation relies on its trained skilled labor services. The company and union work together in a non-adversarial manner to achieve eachothers goals and needs.
This is really the norm out in the world with regards to union company relationships no matter the field. Unions like the UAW and such get the publicity and so forth. However, I find that most union employees and leadership that I know would never jeopardize their place of employment by strong arming for more benefits during hard economic times . They all need jobs man.

Hey Husker.....we are not discussin US Labor versus Foreign Labor. Has not even been brought up.
Get rid of your offensive line coach. Now. Today. He sucks balls.

[Sarge]

Bring out the trolls!

[bluehawk2000]

Bring out the trolls!

Yea I dont have any room to talk in this thread cause I have no idea anything about unions or non unions, and I see it was fit to put that up since everybody was arguing haha.

[Sarge]

NHRA and I go way back. Long long before you. We were discussing. Not arguing.
Big people do this from time to time.

[bluehawk2000]

NHRA and I go way back. Long long before you. We were discussing. Not arguing.
Big people do this from time to time.

You are cracking me good today I love it old man but I shall return soon enough

[Sarge]

I eagerly await your next utterance with the greatest anticipation.

[bluehawk2000]

I eagerly await your next utterance with the greatest anticipation.

Its only a matter of time before you let your guard down!!!

[Nhra Firebird]

In general and not considering unions such as the UAW or others that are MAJOR political contributors and have a lobby organization in Washington, I think skilled union labor puts out a better product than the cheap ass contracting and subcontracting by companies using up from the border taco bender labor.

For example I used to belong to the CWA when I worked for a communications company that installed business phone systems. The company was/is extremely profittable and it really was not an issue every three years during contract negotiations. The company had base line educational requirements to be employed there. Some of these were requirements were a HS Diploma, at least an Associates degree in Electronics, an FCC License, etc. The company would invest in the employee hired would and send him/her to a school that taught the installation process of a certain business phone switch that was designated a need for the company. That employee would become and expert in the field pertaining to that particular switch. Whether it be NEAC, Northern Telecom, ROLM, AVAYA switches etc. The company had techs for each switch. Not all customers want the same switch. This is "skilled labor". This is not an illegal doing shovel work or a door panel installer making $78 and hour. The company's reputation relies on its trained skilled labor services. The company and union work together in a non-adversarial manner to achieve eachothers goals and needs.
This is really the norm out in the world with regards to union company relationships no matter the field. Unions like the UAW and such get the publicity and so forth. However, I find that most union employees and leadership that I know would never jeopardize their place of employment by strong arming for more benefits during hard economic times . They all need jobs man.

I don't know why you think union means skilled labor... Union contractors put jobs over budget and cost tax payers more money. On a prevailing wage rate job a non union worker will make more money then a union worker, because of the union dues. I'm not sure about you, but I would sooner have the money in my pocket rather then giving it to the unions to help put Obama in office.

[nhraformula]

LOL...so Union people are the only ones with degrees now? Oh Lord!

No i never said that, but for certain trades you need schooling and you even know that

I still fail to understand your point of criminals and the union. I just do not get it at all. Union "leadership" has ripped off the working men and women of this country for billions. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-110758-2504r/
So what does this have to do with the validity of a Union in todays American society? I just do not get your argument at all friend.

Ripped off, well all im going to say to that is thats a matter of opinion

Look....if you wish to belong to a Socialist Orginization knock yourself out.
Union membership has dropped like a refridgerator off a cliff the past decade(s) and continues to fall. About the only people in Unions these days are unskilled.

Once again untrue and you know that.

Seen any technolgoy companies that are unionized? Nope. You know why? Because the Union kills self thinking/ free thinking and regulates all it's Socialist members to putting the red wire on the red post for the same wage....regardless how well one employee does versus another.

From a consumer standpoint.....what is the advantage of buying a Socialist union made product versus a non union made product?

Why are companies nowadays non union, simple, because companies spend billions per year on anti union companies to come in and devolope for lack of better words scare tactics.

From the consumer standpoint is simple, save a buck now but good luck with your kids finding a job that pays over 30k a year in the future.
Theres very little manufacturing here in the US and will be even less in the future.
Go back about 50 years, when America’s middle class was expanding and the economy was soaring. Paychecks were big enough to allow us to buy all the goods and services we produced. It was a virtuous circle. Good pay meant more purchases, and more purchases meant more jobs.

At the center of this circle were unions. In 1955, more than a third of working Americans belonged to one. Unions gave them the bargaining leverage they needed to get the paychecks that kept the economy going. So many Americans were unionized that wage agreements spilled over to nonunionized workplaces as well. Employers knew they had to match union wages to compete for workers and to recruit the best ones.

[nhraformula]

I don't know why you think union means skilled labor... .

Because for a number of trades you must be schooled.
Many of the trades require a person to be an apprentice from 3-5 years and attend nite school no less than 3 nites per week.
Do you need special skills to be a laborer, no. They do have an apprentice period which focuses on safety and most efficient way to do whatever tasks are part of the job.