f-body lovers, i think this is new thread worthy,

**Smittro** · 11-06-2009, 07:28 PM

Also if I remember correctly it was'nt that uncommon back then to find a steel crank in a truck engine. I believe some 327 sb had steel cranks too.

**wheeliE-maxx** · 11-06-2009, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

IIRC, the "400" used in the trucks (and later in A and B body cars) was a SBC 400. 1st year for the SBC 400cid was 1970. It was never used in a Camaro.

I may be wrong though.

The 400 small block was never used in pickups that I know if. I'm refering to how from '70-'72 the 402 big block was called a 400 and the badging says the same. The '68-'68 396 were of course called that. The 402 was replaced in '73 by the 454 as far as trucks go.

**Smittro** · 11-06-2009, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by wheeliE-maxx

The 400 small block was never used in pickups that I know if. I'm refering to how from '70-'72 the 402 big block was called a 400 and the badging says the same. The '68-'68 396 were of course called that. The 402 was replaced in '73 by the 454 as far as trucks go.

I believe it was more likely used in utillity (box) trucks..

**wheeliE-maxx** · 11-06-2009, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Smittro

Also if I remember correctly it was'nt that uncommon back then to find a steel crank in a truck engine. I believe some 327 sb had steel cranks too.

I believe every small journal 327 had a forged crank. Large journal ones could depending on performance level. Some people think 327's are rare or special, but you can pick up a cast 307 crank at the auto parts store for cheap. Have it rebalanced and have an early-ish 350 block machined for it being the casting numbers are the same for a large journal 4" bore block. If my truck engine is original (been too lazy to clean and check the numbers) it should be a 4-bolt block with a steel crank. Doesn't really matter for me, but it's worth more atleast.

**67CamaroRSSS** · 11-06-2009, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Smittro

I think you're right the 400 sb was only used in trucks. Was a good engine but the block was limited in what could be done to its bore..

Originally Posted by Smittro

Also if I remember correctly it was'nt that uncommon back then to find a steel crank in a truck engine. I believe some 327 sb had steel cranks too.

Actually the 400cid SBC was created due to the demands placed upon the small block by ever increasing size in cars and the accessories they had. It was primarily used in the Caprice in 1970 but was also used in the Chevelle and trucks (maybe others?) later in the 70's. I remember a friend buying a 76 S3 Laguna (basically a Chevelle) new and it had a sb 400 with a 4V carb.

The 400 block has siamesed cylinders which allowed the block to start at 4.125" bore. 4 bolt blocks are actually weaker than 2 bolt blocks due to the webbing between the journals being thin. Drilling and tapping for the extra 2 bolts weakened an already thin area. Safe for everyday use but a potential hazzard in a high performance application. 400's made from 73 on are all 2 bolt mains. All 400 cranks were cast iron.

And regarding the 327: There are 2 versions - small journal (thru 1967) and large journal (68 and 69). All small journal 327 cranks are forged. Most 68 and 69 (except Corvette engines) 327 cranks are cast iron.

An anecdote: I made a 4 bolt main 327 (something the factory never offered) by combining a forged large journal 327 crank and a 4 bolt main 010 block. I'll grant you I balanced and blue printed the engine but it was the strongest SBC I ever built.

**Smittro** · 11-06-2009, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

Actually the 400cid SBC was created due to the demands placed upon the small block by ever increasing size in cars and the accessories they had. It was primarily used in the Caprice in 1970 but was also used in the Chevelle and trucks (maybe others?) later in the 70's. I remember a friend buying a 76 S3 Laguna (basically a Chevelle) new and it had a sb 400 with a 4V carb.

The 400 block has siamesed cylinders which allowed the block to start at 4.125" bore. 4 bolt blocks are actually weaker than 2 bolt blocks due to the webbing between the journals being thin. Drilling and tapping for the extra 2 bolts weakened an already thin area. Safe for everyday use but a potential hazzard in a high performance application. 400's made from 73 on are all 2 bolt mains. All 400 cranks were cast iron.

And regarding the 327: There are 2 versions - small journal (thru 1967) and large journal (68 and 69). All small journal 327 cranks are forged. Most 68 and 69 (except Corvette engines) 327 cranks are cast iron.

An anecdote: I made a 4 bolt main 327 (something the factory never offered) by combining a forged large journal 327 crank and a 4 bolt main 010 block. I'll grant you I balanced and blue printed the engine but it was the strongest SBC I ever built.

Yep you're right it was used in cars and trucks. Did a search here's what I came up with..

http://www.nastyz28.com/sbchevy/sblock.php

**Smittro** · 11-06-2009, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by wheeliE-maxx

I believe every small journal 327 had a forged crank. Large journal ones could depending on performance level. Some people think 327's are rare or special, but you can pick up a cast 307 crank at the auto parts store for cheap. Have it rebalanced and have an early-ish 350 block machined for it being the casting numbers are the same for a large journal 4" bore block. If my truck engine is original (been too lazy to clean and check the numbers) it should be a 4-bolt block with a steel crank. Doesn't really matter for me, but it's worth more atleast.

Yeah I could'nt remember which had the steel crank and which the cast..IMHO the 307 was'nt a half bad engine either..

**67CamaroRSSS** · 11-06-2009, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by wheeliE-maxx

I believe every small journal 327 had a forged crank. Large journal ones could depending on performance level. Some people think 327's are rare or special, but you can pick up a cast 307 crank at the auto parts store for cheap. Have it rebalanced and have an early-ish 350 block machined for it being the casting numbers are the same for a large journal 4" bore block. If my truck engine is original (been too lazy to clean and check the numbers) it should be a 4-bolt block with a steel crank. Doesn't really matter for me, but it's worth more atleast.

Do you know that the 350 was only available in 67 in the Camaro? Ever wonder how they were made? FYI: 67 350 engines have the same casting number (IIRC last 3 numbers are 387 - I'd have to check to be sure) as 327 engines. All 350's in 67 were 2 bolt main but had 2.40" (? it's been awhile since I did this lol) main journals (vs 327 2.20") with larger rod journals (2.10" vs 327 2.00") and the connecting rod used a 3/8" bolt (vs 327's 11/32"). essentially they took 327's and line bored them to increase them main saddle area and remachined the rear main bearing area for a larger seal.

Ok, I checked. 327 main size was 2.30"; 350 main size was 2.45" (400 mains are 2.65").

1967 block number is 657...

**67CamaroRSSS** · 11-06-2009, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Smittro

Yeah I could'nt remember which had the steel crank and which the cast..IMHO the 307 was'nt a half bad engine either..

The 307 is the bastard step child of the SBC engine family...

**wheeliE-maxx** · 11-06-2009, 08:00 PM

I'm not up on square body truck info. I guess they did come with 400 sb's. You just don't see many these days because most of the good 400's have been looted from their original home. A 400 sb isn't worth it to me because I can't even dream of having enough money to purchase heads that will outflow a 350-383. Some old school folks think about a small gain in cubes a little too much and then they plop 882 smoggers on top with some single plane or tunnel ram from the 70's and wonder why it runs like shit.

**wheeliE-maxx** · 11-06-2009, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

The 307 is the bastard step child of the SBC engine family...

it atleast breathes better than a 305. Both of which make good power with cheap vortec heads. Though being so small and having a short stroke you'd try to rev it and being only cast pistons are available afaik it'd go pow.

**Smittro** · 11-06-2009, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by wheeliE-maxx

I'm not up on square body truck info. I guess they did come with 400 sb's. You just don't see many these days because most of the good 400's have been looted from their original home. A 400 sb isn't worth it to me because I can't even dream of having enough money to purchase heads that will outflow a 350-383. Some old school folks think about a small gain in cubes a little too much and then they plop 882 smoggers on top with some single plane or tunnel ram from the 70's and wonder why it runs like shit.

I mostly like the 400 sbc in it's stock form really. You can't do much if anything with its bore before you end up with cyl walls that are too thin and the block ends up being junk..

**wheeliE-maxx** · 11-06-2009, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Smittro

I mostly like the 400 sbc in it's stock form really. You can't do much if anything with its bore before you end up with cyl walls that are too thin and the block ends up being junk..

Stock form meaning a torquey low revving bastard? I'm trying to do that on limited funds with my tree-fiddy if I keep it. It's already fairly torquey (300 net when bone stock at 2400 rpm) but needs to breathe way better up top of course. Bumping the compression up 1-2 points should help as well

**Smittro** · 11-06-2009, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by wheeliE-maxx

Stock form meaning a torquey low revving bastard? I'm trying to do that on limited funds with my tree-fiddy if I keep it. It's already fairly torquey (300 net when bone stock at 2400 rpm) but needs to breathe way better up top of course. Bumping the compression up 1-2 points should help as well

Pretty much lol. But you know chevy pretty well. Making her breath better may get you farther cheaper than a boost in compression too. IMHO nothing runs like a good breathing sbc..

**67CamaroRSSS** · 11-06-2009, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by wheeliE-maxx

it atleast breathes better than a 305. Both of which make good power with cheap vortec heads. Though being so small and having a short stroke you'd try to rev it and being only cast pistons are available afaik it'd go pow.

3.875" bore for 307 (same as the 283) vs 3.736" bore for 305 allows for a more unshrouded valve. Call me "old school" bit I still like my cubes. At an easily attainable 1hp/cid why give anything up?

I agree with the smog heads though. Heads make the engine way more than displacement.

**Smittro** · 11-06-2009, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

3.875" bore for 307 (same as the 283) vs 3.736" bore for 305 allows for a more unshrouded valve. Call me "old school" bit I still like my cubes. At an easily attainable 1hp/cid why give anything up?

I agree with the smog heads though. Heads make the engine way more than displacement.

I hear ya. For me personally there's something about small displacement chevys. I like high R's, it's the scream of 7k+ that gets me goin. Same goes for my 24v 60* v6 chevy . They make music to my ears in those rev ranges..

**wheeliE-maxx** · 11-06-2009, 08:24 PM

Well patriot vortec heads are what will make it breathe. They will boost my compression to exactly 10:1 from 8.5:1 with a thinner head gasket to get .040 quench height. So the compression and breathing go together. But for now it'll probably just be a performer manifold because I have to do intake gaskets anyway. You can get em for nothing. I've heard that a manifold will really pick up even a stock long block because the factory one is so terrible. And the patriots are drilled for vortec and standard manifolds so it will work later. Aswell as swapping out my 2" ramshorns and 1.5 inch pinched downpipes to un crossed duals. Will go with a 3" single and headers or 2.5" crush bent duals with x. My truck has the "300hp 327 cam" stock, it's pretty anemic. 194/202 or close duration, 112 lsa, no advance I think, and .390/.410 lift. Adding a bigger modern cam (xe256 installed 4* advance i'm thinking) will actually boost torque even with more duration. xe256+4* advance at timing chain= 110/102 and 212/218 duration

If not that, then some roller tip 1.6:1 rockers to help my stock cam out. It needs valve seals anyway so I might as well get some good springs in there...

**loasdrums** · 11-06-2009, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

WRONG! See 22 seconds in. It clearly shows headrests on the seats which makes that an early 70 MY. Late 70 MY had Vega style bucket seats without a separate headrest.

First off sorry that I did not preface my comment with "I think that" and that I restated what I was told by someone else. I did not doupt anyone. So I'll just stand here ->

for a while.

**67CamaroRSSS** · 11-06-2009, 08:28 PM

Old school trick: Stock Pontiac rockers work on a SBC and are 1.6 ratio...

**wheeliE-maxx** · 11-06-2009, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

3.875" bore for 307 (same as the 283) vs 3.736" bore for 305 allows for a more unshrouded valve. Call me "old school" bit I still like my cubes. At an easily attainable 1hp/cid why give anything up?

I agree with the smog heads though. Heads make the engine way more than displacement.

That's what i'm saying. Someone will spend alot more money and effort to find and build a 400 only to slap some 882's or 993's, make no compression, and completely mismatch the cam and manifold combo. It makes me sad for the waste of a good engine. I love cubes as well. Rpm sounded fun before I got my license, but i now realize torque is where the fun's at on the street. In a heavyish truck especially