Ladies and Gents, I think we are all screwd!

[Lethal Z]

I'm not qualified to say if these UAW workers are overpaid or not. The market is and since the market bears less money for similar jobs at non-union auto manufacturers the logical conclusion is they are overpaid. Considerably too when you look at the benefits package and compensation. Reality is that if these UAW workers don't accept a reality based wage instead of the wage they are making now, they won't be making any money and they will force the company into bankruptcy. It would be a real shame for the current workers to destroy the retirements of thousands of former wokers. All they need to do is look at the steel workers to see what will and is going to happen to them.

You believe labor laws will protect your rights, you go ahead and believe that. I know better, I've worked plenty of jobs in my time and I know better. Most companys aren't guilty of labor law violations but it does exist, so believe what you like.

With regards to your employee 10 years of poor reviews, economic slow down, that makes a little bit of a difference. You might have mentioned that in your earlier post.

And as far as this goes

Way off again. What I said was that someone that has been doing a job for 10 years should be more productive than the new guy to actually be worth more money. Just because you go to a place for 5, 10 or 20 years doesn't mean you deserve more money, you need to earn it through increased performance. If a new guy and the 10 year guy are just as productive thenthey both should make the same money.

For one if the job pays $8 bucks an hour and Joe blow has been there 10yrs why would you not give him a raise. Ever heard of cost of living increase? What about giving him some incentive to stay? See this is were you and I really part company. If I am running a company and I have good employees who come in everyday on time and they do a good job for me. In time Im gonna pay them more. Why because I want them to stay. I have seen to many people who come and go that could care less about who they work for or what kind of job they do. And beleive me there are more of them than good reliable people. You said earlier, you get what you pay for. So you can pay Joe 8 bucks an hour for 10 years if you want to but in the real world Joe is gonna leave you and come work for me. Like I said earlier turnaround.

I'm not understanding you here. I think if the employee was punched in and was coming in the door they should always be looking to get baskets to bring in. 25 years ago I worked for a company called Pharmor. They had lots of shopping carts and just about every employee would bring in baskets anytime they came in, punched in or not. It would be wrong for an employer to ask for employees to do that, but a good employee wouldn't have to be asked. They would realize that what benefits the company benefits the employees. If you don't get that concept you're hopeless

Your missing the point. When I come to work I am here to do my job and do the best job I can do all while getting PAID. So don't stop me comming through the door because I didn't stop and grab a basket or two comming in from the parking lot. I'll grab all the baskets you want and without having to be told, but I will do so AFTER I clock in. Did you get that? If not you're hopeless.

I'm not qualified to say if these UAW workers are overpaid or not. The market is and since the market bears less money for similar jobs at non-union auto manufacturers the logical conclusion is they are overpaid. Considerably too when you look at the benefits package and compensation. Reality is that if these UAW workers don't accept a reality based wage instead of the wage they are making now, they won't be making any money and they will force the company into bankruptcy. It would be a real shame for the current workers to destroy the retirements of thousands of former wokers. All they need to do is look at the steel workers to see what will and is going to happen to them.

Like I said earlier I completely understand that concessions need to be made. But they need to be made everywhere in the company. All you guys wanna talk about is how the worker needs to have his pay cut how his benefits need to be cut back. Cutbacks need to be accross the board, PERIOD. The current workers aren't destroying the retirements of former workers the economy is. The car companys say they cannot survive if they have to continue paying the retirement benefits. According to them that is the biggest problem. Unfortunatly the reitrees are doomed bankrupcy or not.

[Lethal Z]

By the way, I do support them. I drive an 02 Camaro and an 03 Cavalier. I have owned since 2001 a 2001 new Z28, a 2002 new Z28, a 2003 new Cavalier, a 2002 Z06 C5, a new 2005 GTO, a new 2006 C6 Vette, a used 1996 C4 LT4 Vette, a 2005 C6 Vette, and in the next few weeks will be buying a new Vette or maybe a GT500, kinda torn right now as to which way to go.

For the companies I worked for I've purchased about a dozen Cavaliers and about 30 Focus Wagons, about 15 Silverado pickups, 2 F-150's and I'm buying a Ford Escape tommorrow. I've been asked why I don't consider cars from non American based manufacturers and my answer is that I prefer to buy a product that helps the economy of the country I live in. Foreign products help our economy buy providing work for dock workers and truck drivers etc.... but in the end the profit leaves this country, so I try to buy American.

How many American vehicles have you bought in the last 7-8 years????

05 Dodge ram
02 Dodge ram
Lincoln LS
2 94 mustang GTs
95 Z28
98 Z28
Chevy Malibu
88 Iroc
2000 jeep cherokee
Ford Probe
88 Dodge Daytona
84 F150

And I don't even own a company, how am I doing so far?

[ibew697]

I'm 67 and have never owned a foreign car or truck. Don't be too hard on us retired guys. When we started working things aren't the way they are now. All of these power tools and equipment have made working with your hands quite a bit easier. When I first started most of the generation before me ended up with back surgeries and walked bent over during their retirement.

[Smittro]

I'm 67 and have never owned a foreign car or truck. Don't be too hard on us retired guys. When we started working things aren't the way they are now. All of these power tools and equipment have made working with your hands quite a bit easier. When I first started most of the generation before me ended up with back surgeries and walked bent over during their retirement.

I for one would never look down on your generation. After all you guys built this country by hand. Not to mention the generation before yours saved the world TWICE, WWI WWII. I think today some of the problem is people dont know what work is. Some think they should just be payed for showing up, and not for the work they get done. I worked my way to owning my own company. Now a days people sometimes think they should start at top level pay rate. I hired a sheet metal guy once who expected top level pay for his 20 years of working for some other metal company. I agreed he should be payed well because he brought a lot of "know how" to my company. The problem was his "work ethic" if he had no metal to cut or bend he was perfectly fine with sitting there doing nothing but drinking coffee. I expect my emplyees to at least pick up a broom and clean shop. He told me "I dont push brooms, I'm a metal worker!" He felt that because he had 15 years in age on me that I was too young to tell "him" how to be a good worker. I told him, "I buy the coffee and I pay for work done not coffee drank!" He then told me I was an a-hole for fireing him. I said, that maybe but I'm the guy who signs all the checks here and it's not my business to pay for nothing getting done. The sad part was he walked away thinking he deserved being payed for doing nothing. I came to find out later he was once in the "Iron Workers Union", I wonder how many years he sat and drank coffee while the union protected him.....

[Lethal Z]

I for one would never look down on your generation. After all you guys built this country by hand. Not to mention the generation before yours saved the world TWICE, WWI WWII. I think today some of the problem is people dont know what work is. Some think they should just be payed for showing up, and not for the work they get done. I worked my way to owning my own company. Now a days people sometimes think they should start at top level pay rate. I hired a sheet metal guy once who expected top level pay for his 20 years of working for some other metal company. I agreed he should be payed well because he brought a lot of "know how" to my company. The problem was his "work ethic" if he had no metal to cut or bend he was perfectly fine with sitting there doing nothing but drinking coffee. I expect my emplyees to at least pick up a broom and clean shop. He told me "I dont push brooms, I'm a metal worker!" He felt that because he had 15 years in age on me that I was too young to tell "him" how to be a good worker. I told him, "I buy the coffee and I pay for work done not coffee drank!" He then told me I was an a-hole for fireing him. I said, that maybe but I'm the guy who signs all the checks here and it's not my business to pay for nothing getting done. The sad part was he walked away thinking he deserved being payed for doing nothing. I came to find out later he was once in the "Iron Workers Union", I wonder how many years he sat and drank coffee while the union protected him.....

Good post, I see nothing wrong with you getting rid of the guy either. But the misconception here is that well all union people are like that. They sit around drank coffee and expect to get paid. This is not true. True there are guys that use the union to there advantage, and it gives everyone a bad name. I couldn't get away with that, the shop steward would be called in and if it continued my company could get rid of me no problem. There are plenty of hardworking union people who put in an honest 8 hour day, there well trained and do fantastic work. You never hear about them.

[fergyflyer]

Lethal Z, you and I agree completely that the management is to blame too and that they need to feel the pain as well. Their pay needs to be cut to the same levels as the competition and their bonuses need to be $0 till the company makes a profit. I think you missed that point in my first post.

I brought in carts when I worked a job like that. It wasn't like I ran around the parking lot, but if I walked past a cart or two or three I brought it in. I don't see anything wrong with that. That attitude got me promoted and raises that were better than others got so in effect I got paid to bring in carts.

Too many people have the attitude that they should be paid what their worth. If you change that around to people should show, through actions, what they are capable of and what they are worth, then things would work much better for all.

I've had employees tell me that they didn't get hired to clean the bathroom, but guess what, I clean the bathroom, I sweep up trash and I pick up dead animals by the side of the road too. If someone pays you and you take their money, unless it's something that isn't safe to do you should do whatever needs to be done. No sheetmetal to work on then clean the machine, your tools, sweep the floor, help someone else. Keep busy doing something productive.

[ezwip]

I have worked with people that threw cake parties everyday and would take your order for McDonalds via cell phone on their way to work. They ended up in management within a year while people that had been there 10 just watched. Meanwhile the rest of us were doing the job we were paid to do and absolutely killing production/accuracy. The people that just sat around surfing the internet, kissing ass, and promoting themselves to fictitious boss got paid. Those that worked non stop were just asked to work harder to cover. In a small factory these things are fixed quickly. When you get large it's often overlooked. Problem is the chiefs aren't what they claim to be. In most cases they are paid far too much for very little. Meanwhile they are working other people like slaves and throwing crumbs at them. They totally suck at their job and they're grading you on yours. Once it gets like that you can't correct it. You're bankrupt. It's all starts with Johnny Lazy finding a new way to be productive.

Just like with the banks. The small productive banks will be purchased by the big lazy banks that couldn't generate a profit but got a bailout that can't even be traced back to them.