Oil pressure

**cfgioja** · 12-29-2010, 02:04 PM

Well, That is where I was going to look next, but the crank pulley decided to break a tab off instead of come off. I have to take it too my local machine shop and have them tear the rest down. I will have them check it all over and replace what needs replaced, also while they are at it I am getting the block dipped.

Thanks for all the advice, I will surely keep them in mind when building it next go around.

**Jay37** · 12-29-2010, 02:58 PM

Hell yeah man,
Just my personal (so backwoods gearhead) opinion. I might try to cut that bitch off, replace it, and find out were my oil problem is. I mean if you don't fix it, you probably will have close to the same machine shop bill anyway. But your build looks sweet to me, and it looks like you made a couple smart budget performance decisions. Just hate to have to see you keep the machine shop in business.

**cfgioja** · 12-29-2010, 07:33 PM

I would probably try that if I had the equipment. I have a grinder and saw-zaw, then the basic mechanic tools. I dont even have my own compressor anymore. Sucks being 26 and in college, I am lucky enough my wife found a place with a shop on the property when I was in Iraq to move to.

**intropiles** · 12-30-2010, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

Bloody nose. This dry winter air kills me.

That's nose bleeding.

**incbed** · 12-30-2010, 07:01 AM

I've read threw all this ,,,and I have came up with two possible problems it could be↓↓↓↓

1st problem,,,the oil pickup tube Oring could be the wrong size or could have been pinched when installed into the oil pump,,,this is a big problem for alot of people that replace there oil pump,,,hell for me my oil pump came with 4 different Orings to choose from,,so I chose the Oring that was the same size as the original I removed,,,so the OP's engine could have had the wrong Oring after it was rebuilt and also if the OP took it apart he probly just put back the Oring that was already in it which could also be a problem.

2nd problem,,,,with adding the extra length the oil has to travel because of the oil filter relocation kit that could be causing a problem also.<< that one is just a wild guess really.

But I would probly bet it is the oil tube Oring that is causing his problem.
I have the Melling high pressure pump and on start up I have around 65psi at idle and at full temp and the engine being used for say 10 miles at idle it has 45psi actually mine so far has never dropped bellow 45 psi at idle since I replaced the oil pump.

**Sarge** · 12-30-2010, 01:20 PM

Well....when it is the O Ring though...it is not intermittent like he has. It is shit for OP right off the bat and stay's that way. He had good OP for awhile.
I have remote dual filters on most of my cars....you increase the quantity of the sump by a quart and a half...but the pressure remains the same....

**cfgioja** · 12-30-2010, 09:25 PM

Looking at the oil flow diagrams that I have seen on the threads, will this Regulator valve inside the oil pump actually cause a back feed of oil if it is blocked open or does it just control oil pressure?

I am running an aftermarket pan, well really a custom pan made just for our projects by Renegade Hybrids to clear the 944 crossmember. I was wondering if the seal would have lost hold on the outlets but that would have mostly likely ended up in a massive oil mess under my car.

So clogged galleys from this paint chips or whatever it is or a bad block if that regulator wont cause that. I dont see how an o-ring on the pickup tube would cause that issue, I can understand a pressure drop but not backfeeding.

**incbed** · 12-31-2010, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Well....when it is the O Ring though...it is not intermittent like he has. It is shit for OP right off the bat and stay's that way. He had good OP for awhile.
I have remote dual filters on most of my cars....you increase the quantity of the sump by a quart and a half...but the pressure remains the same....

I have to respectfully disagree ,,I no a guy that put a LS1 in his Rock crawler when he had bought the engine it did not come with a oil pan,,,so he bought a oil pan and pickup tube from someone and he also replaced the oil pump before putting the engine in his buggy ,,and on start up the engine had around 50psi oil pressure ,,and as he was making changes to the buggy he would start up the engine and it would always have around 50psi oil pressure.
So he loaded the buggy on to the trailer and took off to Alabama to a ORV park ,,the oil pressure and everything was fine going down the trail to the first opstical ,,,but when he got in the middle of the opstical he revved the engine past 4,000 rpm and his dummy low oil pressure light came on ,,he looked at the oil pressure guage and it was reading between 10-15psi so he shut the engine off and someone pulled him back to his trailer.
He let the engine cool down for about an hour,,he checked the oil level it was fine ,,he started the engine back up and the oil pressure was 35psi,, but was dropping the longer the engine ran,,,so he just put his buggy back on the trailer ,,that night he was doing some reading on the internet about what would cause his engine to have low oil pressure ,,and came across alot of threads and peoples questions about the oil pump Oring the problems people were having and or which Oring to use.

So he thought he would look at his oring since it was easy for him to remove the oil pan with the engine still in his buggy.
He removed the pickup tube and got to looking at the oring and it looked fine no damage,,so he stuck the oring back on the tube and slid the pickup tube back into the oil pump and noticed that it wasn't really tight ,,it was kinda easy for him to push the tube in,,,so he looked to see if he kept the other Orings that came with his new oil pump which he had kept.
So he went with the Oring that was thicker than the one he just removed and he had to apply a good bit of force to get the pickup tube back into the oil pump,,,he put it all back together and he hasn't had a problem since with his oil pressure.

Also I have read this same problem on another forum that starts with LS1 ,,were the person had good oil prssure wile the engine was at idle ,,but then once the engine was actually under a load the engine would loose oil pressure.

Also I just remembered something else ,,,the camshaft retainer plate could also be causing the low oil pressure,,,if the camshaft retainer plate gasket is messed up or not sealing correctly to the block the engine will loose oil pressure because of that also.

**Sarge** · 12-31-2010, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by incbed

I have to respectfully disagree ,,I no a guy that put a LS1 in his Rock crawler when he had bought the engine it did not come with a oil pan,,,so he bought a oil pan and pickup tube from someone and he also replaced the oil pump before putting the engine in his buggy ,,and on start up the engine had around 50psi oil pressure ,,and as he was making changes to the buggy he would start up the engine and it would always have around 50psi oil pressure.
So he loaded the buggy on to the trailer and took off to Alabama to a ORV park ,,the oil pressure and everything was fine going down the trail to the first opstical ,,,but when he got in the middle of the opstical he revved the engine past 4,000 rpm and his dummy low oil pressure light came on ,,he looked at the oil pressure guage and it was reading between 10-15psi so he shut the engine off and someone pulled him back to his trailer.
He let the engine cool down for about an hour,,he checked the oil level it was fine ,,he started the engine back up and the oil pressure was 35psi,, but was dropping the longer the engine ran,,,so he just put his buggy back on the trailer ,,that night he was doing some reading on the internet about what would cause his engine to have low oil pressure ,,and came across alot of threads and peoples questions about the oil pump Oring the problems people were having and or which Oring to use.

So he thought he would look at his oring since it was easy for him to remove the oil pan with the engine still in his buggy.
He removed the pickup tube and got to looking at the oring and it looked fine no damage,,so he stuck the oring back on the tube and slid the pickup tube back into the oil pump and noticed that it wasn't really tight ,,it was kinda easy for him to push the tube in,,,so he looked to see if he kept the other Orings that came with his new oil pump which he had kept.
So he went with the Oring that was thicker than the one he just removed and he had to apply a good bit of force to get the pickup tube back into the oil pump,,,he put it all back together and he hasn't had a problem since with his oil pressure.

Also I have read this same problem on another forum that starts with LS1 ,,were the person had good oil prssure wile the engine was at idle ,,but then once the engine was actually under a load the engine would loose oil pressure.

Also I just remembered something else ,,,the camshaft retainer plate could also be causing the low oil pressure,,,if the camshaft retainer plate gasket is messed up or not sealing correctly to the block the engine will loose oil pressure because of that also.

I knew a guy who owned a goat with 5 legs.

**Sarge** · 12-31-2010, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by cfgioja

Looking at the oil flow diagrams that I have seen on the threads, will this Regulator valve inside the oil pump actually cause a back feed of oil if it is blocked open or does it just control oil pressure?

I am running an aftermarket pan, well really a custom pan made just for our projects by Renegade Hybrids to clear the 944 crossmember. I was wondering if the seal would have lost hold on the outlets but that would have mostly likely ended up in a massive oil mess under my car.

So clogged galleys from this paint chips or whatever it is or a bad block if that regulator wont cause that. I dont see how an o-ring on the pickup tube would cause that issue, I can understand a pressure drop but not backfeeding.

Yes.

**pajeff02** · 12-31-2010, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge

I knew a guy who owned a goat with 5 legs.

You also have a pet squirrel with three balls.

**Sarge** · 12-31-2010, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

You also have a pet squirrel with three balls.

He slammed his head into a .22 hollow point. Horrible accident.

**cfgioja** · 12-31-2010, 06:59 PM

I will make sure they check i out. Can it be cleaned if it is clogged up or do I need to buy a new pump?

Also someone mentioned one another forum about needing to changing pressure springs if switching cams, is a 228/239 with .571 one of the cams that would require a spring change, or is that just hear say?

**Sarge** · 01-01-2011, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by cfgioja

I will make sure they check i out. Can it be cleaned if it is clogged up or do I need to buy a new pump?

Also someone mentioned one another forum about needing to changing pressure springs if switching cams, is a 228/239 with .571 one of the cams that would require a spring change, or is that just hear say?

I been thinkin on this. That is dangerous for old folks to "think" on about anything.

You by chance did not use any sealant where the oil pump connects to the block did you?

I had a kid build a LS1 and he did not have the gasket so he used that gasket maker sealant stuff. Things were great for awhile then his OP went to shit. It was right there...where the oil pump connects to the block. He did not have the gasket. I found "hunks" of sealant floating around and of course clogging things up. But his oil pump was leaking right there where it connected to the block. Sealant and oil do not mix.

I know I am reaching like a bitch here....and I know most are going to point to the O Ring....but my experiance with that O Ring is either works or it doesnt right off the bat.

Just curious about the above scenario.......that is what I found with this kids motor and am curious about your build.

As for the pump spring.....I have used springs to adjust based on bearing clearances yes....larger clearances require more oil flow.....but not from changing a cam as the rod bearing clearances do not change.

**Jay37** · 01-01-2011, 04:21 AM

Hmmm gettin' interesting around here.

I agree that sealant can be a BIG ISSUE. I can't count the small blocks I've got, that were blown up, because of a gasket maker, sealant, or whatever fucking up the oil system.
Just a side storie, if I see a smallblock with rtv on the whole intake surface... its blown. Just because the guy probably put to much rtv on everything and clogged up the oil pickup.

The spring, I don't not see any reason to run a "bigger spring" in a race engine, espesialy just a cam. Reason being, the looser journals don't require more pressure, just volume. so by increasing the spring pressure your not going to get any more volume... Sarge I might be confused on what your doing, but I've never had problems.

**Jay37** · 01-01-2011, 04:24 AM

Also did I hear something about an oil leak? When you took the back cover off did oil come out?

**Sarge** · 01-01-2011, 04:51 AM

Wouldnt you give a six pack to do this in person versus over the internet? LOL......

**Sarge** · 01-01-2011, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Jay37

Hmmm gettin' interesting around here.

I agree that sealant can be a BIG ISSUE. I can't count the small blocks I've got, that were blown up, because of a gasket maker, sealant, or whatever fucking up the oil system.
Just a side storie, if I see a smallblock with rtv on the whole intake surface... its blown. Just because the guy probably put to much rtv on everything and clogged up the oil pickup.

The spring, I don't not see any reason to run a "bigger spring" in a race engine, espesialy just a cam. Reason being, the looser journals don't require more pressure, just volume. so by increasing the spring pressure your not going to get any more volume... Sarge I might be confused on what your doing, but I've never had problems.

We are saying the exact same thing...I just suck at "speaking" this morning

He does not need a bigger spring for just the cam.
Need my bacon and eggs...............

**Jay37** · 01-01-2011, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Wouldnt you give a six pack to do this in person versus over the internet? LOL......

Hell yeah what happened to the days of talking about this drunk, in the burger king parking lot, while on standby to go to jail for wrecking another car and another small block!

Any ways. yeah I see that know. Still can't figure that double oil feed thing though, hate to say it but it seems like the bypass restrictor would have to be pushed out.
maybe... the chunkys biult up in the filter, cocked the bypass out, causing the double feed, and Like the sarge said, the chunkys got in the pump and such causing the low pressure... reaching for the stars

**Sarge** · 01-01-2011, 05:46 AM

If the pressure valve is clogged (partially opened) it will not have a greater pressure on one side versus the other causing oil to drain to both sides. If it was clogged totally I agree...it wouldn't do this.

In other words the pressure is equal on ingress and egress. So when his wife cranked it...yes it came out both sides.