are 4.11s worth it verses 3.73s M6

**RONS98TA** · 09-19-2014, 04:16 AM

I think you will be very happy with the Moser set up. They make some very quality stuff. I've had mine for about 8yrs with no issues. I did however make the mistake of not ordering the backing plates and had my bearings pressed on the axles. Then when I went home to assemble the rear, I realized my mistake. So then I went back to the machine shop to fix the problem.

**SMWS6TA** · 09-19-2014, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by werewolf

I didn't see an option to buy new backing plates or I would have. thankfully I only have three channel as my car is a stripper model (the only stripper my wife lets me be around LOL) now what do I look for to see if I need these t-bolts to install or not?

I'd post a pic however my photobucket is maxed on shared bandwidth...

Look at the axle housing ends and see how close is the bolt holes to the axle tube. If it is very close to the tube or if you place a nut from the backing plate and place it over the hole if it doesn't let the bolt pass through and allow the nut to be turned on then you need t-bolts.

**werewolf** · 09-19-2014, 10:21 AM

what size t-bolts and where can I get them from as I don't see any nuts fitting on the ends

**werewolf** · 09-19-2014, 10:36 AM

looks like they shipped the t-bolts with the axle so one less thing to order. my driveshaft shipped today also so I will be one happy camper here soon.

**35th-ANV-SS** · 09-20-2014, 09:43 AM

Which driveshaft did you get? Hopefully one with upgraded u-joints which will work with the larger 1350 yoke of the 12 bolt.

**werewolf** · 09-20-2014, 10:41 AM

I ordered one from hawks third gen for 1350s and t56. Not sure off the top of my head who manufactured it but it is a 3.5 in diameter.

**INMY01TA** · 09-21-2014, 01:34 PM

4:11's made no measurable difference in gas milaege in my car. (Less than 1mpg) There is no reason to get 3:73's in an m6 unless your running nitrous and will have to shift into 5th before the end of the track or you are running a 27" tire.

**werewolf** · 09-22-2014, 12:37 AM

so what your saying is with stock tires I am now way over geared LOL.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-22-2014, 05:05 AM

Ha, Yeah I think I know what he's trying to say but he has it backwards.

With the stock 26" tire the 4.10's will feel pretty steep, especially 1st-4th gears. I feel the 2.66 first gear is a bit steep anyway for a 4 series gear, reminds me of dumptruck gearing

Usually the close ratios of the day (2.20's) were the only manual transmissions that were factory equipped with 3.73 to 4.10 to 4.56 gearing. When you ordered less gearing of say....3.31 for example, you would generally get the wide ratio trans with a 2.52-2.54 first gear.
That might help to understand why. A 2.66 first gear with 4.10's is pretty darn short. Fun on the dragstrip but I found it a bit useless on stock rubber and driving on the street.
But....like I mentioned before...If I were running a 28" tire rather than the stock 26" I would have liked the 4.10 much better. With the stock 26" tire and the 3.73's, I still find 1st gear fairly short, again it's that 2.66 first gear, but it's about right in my opinion. With a 28" tire I probably wouldn't like the 3.73's. It's that steep first gear in these T-56's where the issue lies. It has tons of overdrive that eats up the 4.10's but they make 1st gear pretty damn short with the 2.66 first. I'd like to see first gear in the 2.40 range myself.
Ford guys had the worst time with this back in the day with the 5.0's. Those 5 speeds had 3.27 first gears, so the factory equipped them with 3.08 rear gear MAXIMUM and that was optional. Standard was 2.73. Guys were sticking 3.73's and 4.10's in them. Let me tell you from first hand experience even the 3.73's in those cars made first gear absolutely USELESS. At the track when you popped the clutch you had to be ready to immediately yank second gear before the car even moved 20 feet. The 3.27 rear gear and the 3.55's were a better "all around" match.

On mileage, the reason we found it to drop all the way down to 24 mpg is because my wife wasn't slowing down her cruise speed, still buzzing along at 80+ MPH keeping up with traffic (we have a limit of 75 here) But that's how she was driving the 3.42's as well. She went from a cruise RPM of 1800 to about 23-2400, and that eats more gas. If she would have slowed the cruise speed down to about 65 mph where the RPM's are just below 2,000 then it wouldn't be so bad. But how many people are willing to cruise 15 mph slower and add another 1/2 hour to the 100 mile trip each way every day?? I'll admit when I make the drive in my classics I'll cruise at 65ish mph but I'm in no hurry, I don't do that drive daily, or even weekly. But if I had to drive it daily like my wife did, I'd pick up the pace. It all just depends on your driving habits and the situation.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-22-2014, 05:19 AM

Keep in mind I say all this strictly from a daily driver standpoint. If this were a weekend hotrod or a fun toy to play with, I wouldn't hesitate to toss in the 4.10's or even 4.30's and have some fun with it.

**werewolf** · 09-22-2014, 10:45 AM

yea most of my drive is 70 mph max on back county highways. She is my DD so hope I don't regret this too much and do wish some of this info came out earlier lol. Eventually I do want to get some stickier tires for the occasional test and tune night that will be taller but daily it will be stockish sized tires.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-22-2014, 10:52 AM

I'm betting you'll like it just fine.

Alot of what is said here including my own opinion is just that. It's all personal preference and has alot to do with what you want out of a car.

**werewolf** · 09-22-2014, 12:05 PM

I hope and worst case I get new gears lol

**INMY01TA** · 09-22-2014, 01:56 PM

Y

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Ha, Yeah I think I know what he's trying to say but he has it backwards.

With the stock 26" tire the 4.10's will feel pretty steep, especially 1st-4th gears. I feel the 2.66 first gear is a bit steep anyway for a 4 series gear, reminds me of dumptruck gearing

Usually the close ratios of the day (2.20's) were the only manual transmissions that were factory equipped with 3.73 to 4.10 to 4.56 gearing. When you ordered less gearing of say....3.31 for example, you would generally get the wide ratio trans with a 2.52-2.54 first gear.
That might help to understand why. A 2.66 first gear with 4.10's is pretty darn short. Fun on the dragstrip but I found it a bit useless on stock rubber and driving on the street.
But....like I mentioned before...If I were running a 28" tire rather than the stock 26" I would have liked the 4.10 much better. With the stock 26" tire and the 3.73's, I still find 1st gear fairly short, again it's that 2.66 first gear, but it's about right in my opinion. With a 28" tire I probably wouldn't like the 3.73's. It's that steep first gear in these T-56's where the issue lies. It has tons of overdrive that eats up the 4.10's but they make 1st gear pretty damn short with the 2.66 first. I'd like to see first gear in the 2.40 range myself.
Ford guys had the worst time with this back in the day with the 5.0's. Those 5 speeds had 3.27 first gears, so the factory equipped them with 3.08 rear gear MAXIMUM and that was optional. Standard was 2.73. Guys were sticking 3.73's and 4.10's in them. Let me tell you from first hand experience even the 3.73's in those cars made first gear absolutely USELESS. At the track when you popped the clutch you had to be ready to immediately yank second gear before the car even moved 20 feet. The 3.27 rear gear and the 3.55's were a better "all around" match.

On mileage, the reason we found it to drop all the way down to 24 mpg is because my wife wasn't slowing down her cruise speed, still buzzing along at 80+ MPH keeping up with traffic (we have a limit of 75 here) But that's how she was driving the 3.42's as well. She went from a cruise RPM of 1800 to about 23-2400, and that eats more gas. If she would have slowed the cruise speed down to about 65 mph where the RPM's are just below 2,000 then it wouldn't be so bad. But how many people are willing to cruise 15 mph slower and add another 1/2 hour to the 100 mile trip each way every day?? I'll admit when I make the drive in my classics I'll cruise at 65ish mph but I'm in no hurry, I don't do that drive daily, or even weekly. But if I had to drive it daily like my wife did, I'd pick up the pace. It all just depends on your driving habits and the situation.

Right yeah if you're running a 27" usually you'd go with 4:30's, a 28" tire then 4:56's.

**RONS98TA** · 09-23-2014, 03:19 AM

I think your gonna be happy with your choice. The few times you do go to the track or even on the street to have a lil fun, your gonna be happy with the 410 in comparison. If you got the 373's, you will have that thought in the back of your mind, "what if' I would have gotten the other gears. The only "what if" I have is when I 1st got my car is I should have gotten the 6 speed man instead of the auto. I had some bad luck with the auto, until I finally got a great tuner. FROST is the man.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-23-2014, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by INMY01TA

Y
Right yeah if you're running a 27" usually you'd go with 4:30's, a 28" tire then 4:56's.

Actually I wouldn't mind the 4.30's or 4.56's with a 26" tire....IF...the car was more of a weekend toy. If it were a weekend toy it's also likely I wouldn't be running these 17" wheels and very short 26" tires either and go for more of a racey look with some 15's with 28" tall rear tires and skinnies up front.

**INMY01TA** · 09-23-2014, 01:55 PM

Enjoy. This car should have come from the factory with 4:11's imo.

**Firebirdjones** · 09-23-2014, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by INMY01TA

Enjoy. This car should have come from the factory with 4:11's imo.

The trucks do

What stopped it for the 4th gens was the whimpy 7.5" rear. That small ring diameter doesn't have much tooth contact when you get into the 4 series ratio's (pinion diameter gets very small) and it compromises strength.

What they should have done since they were already dealing with SLP to build SS's and Firehawks, is to offer the 12 bolt rears as an option. Now that's something I would have checked off the list.

**werewolf** · 09-24-2014, 01:38 AM

well my driveshaft arrived today so now it is just a question of when I can scrounge the time to swap over and get the computer updated. The car is in the shop right now getting the full exhaust and dynotune so I might need bail money soon LOL

**werewolf** · 10-05-2014, 07:03 PM

Ok before I jump into this I have a question? I got the aluminum cover what issues might I run into with it and my panhard bar and swaybar? Just want to be ready for any surprises when I start this project. I did get the swaybar mounts and an adjustable umi panhard bar