Undercover Racing Sting Thwarts local Racers!!

[BrandonDrecksage]

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have laws ensuring a safe highway.

Paying with money or jail time is legal.

Siezing private property is illegal and should not be tolerated.

You have the freedom to move to China where they have no respect for property rights if you don't like it.

did you miss the part about due process of law? meaning if they make a law saying if your caught racing.. we can take your car..then you race..and get caught and the judge finds you guilty....they can take your property..it says it right there.

[jking]

i'm sorry but that doesn't work,taking away their toys hurts more and WORKS.tell that 11 yearold if the state had taken away his fathers ta he would still be able to walk and enjoy life.i'll bet he would say...why didn't they....

It doesn't make a fuck what works.

It's illegal to sieze private property in the US without just compensation, as in an eminent domain situation.

The end.

[jking]

did you miss the part about due process of law? meaning if they make a law saying if your caught racing.. we can take your car..then you race..and get caught and the judge finds you guilty....they can take your property..it says it right there.

Did you miss the part about just compensation for private property?

[YoMommasTA]

Did you miss the part about just compensation for private property?

i think you're living in the past.people are sick of getting fkd up in their cars while driving responsibly.there is a point when laws must do what people can't do on their own.if there wasn't a need for such actions they wouldn't be written.its not like they haven't tried other ways to stop this.you are proof it will work!anyone that against something KNOWs it has great consequences.i think its a great solution to a terrible problem.do i like the idea of someone loosing their property? NO but i like the idea of someone loosing their life LESS.i'll tell honestly if kill one of my relatives racing the law will be your last worry.

let me ask you this,if a new law stating if you take a life yours is taken also would you be against that?what if a race killed your sister or mother?

[Capster78]

if you mean a quick stomp on it with noone around? yes.a all out race to 120+ HELL NO!

have any idea how quick a car can get loose and kill people under WOT?locally we had a 99TA racing a mustang,the TA went over the guardrail down a 30ft drop into the southbound lanes turning a 11 yerold boy into a INSTANT quadriplegic.they estimate the ta was going about 90 as it went over the guide rail.if you want a link to see this mess i can probably find the newspaper article.this guy WAS a reg on this forum.ask him how he likes his jail time and fines.i don't think he has to worry about owning another car or enjoying his life knowing he turned a 11 yearolds life into SHIT!

i also have a friend that killed his best buddy after they went to a nascar race at pocono raceway in his tricked out pro street truck.they were racing a corvette,lost control,hit a van that was on its way home after a enjoyable day at the races.killed his buddy and two people in the van.that little race cost 3 lives,4 years in jail,10 years probation and a hell of alot of money we all pay the insurance companies to settle wrongful death actionsthat go into the MILLIONS.yep MILLIONS we all pay so some dumb FK can go get loose on the street and hurt someone in his car.

i've owned some of the nastiest cars ever built for the street,a 68 barracuda form S etc but i canhonestly say i've never gone from 0-120+ side by side with another performance car racing.BECAUSE I RESPECT OTHERS LIVES AND MINE TOO!

I agree with you but these instances are rare and usually happen because the people involved were retards!! There are far more car accidents caused by people falling asleep at the wheel, drunk driving and just inattention than racing. There are alot of car accidents that are blamed on racing when in actuality its just a latent disregaurd of the speed limit. They were not really racing anyone, just driving like a moron. I am willing to bet that racing in itself is a very small percentage of the car fatalities in this country. Organized racing, even less. These deaths do, however, tend to be more tragic because there really is no reason for it. No one to really pin it on. If someone is killed by a drunk driver then you have a reason and someone to blame but its hard to cope with someones death especially when you love them when it was by their own stupidity or someone elses.

[jking]

i think you're living in the past.

Constitutional protections are "the past"?

I hope you are joking.

people are sick of getting fkd up in their cars while driving responsibly.there is a point when laws must do what people can't do on their own.if there wasn't a need for such actions they wouldn't be written.its not like they haven't tried other ways to stop this.

you are proof it will work!anyone that against something KNOWs it has great consequences.i think its a great solution to a terrible problem.do i like the idea of someone loosing their property? NO but i like the idea of someone loosing their life LESS.i'll tell honestly if kill one of my relatives racing the law will be your last worry.

Interrogating suspects by chopping their fingers off would probably be an effective way to solve some crimes.

I guess you would be for that too?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also I'm glad that we've had people in this country who valued freedom more than their safety. It's because of them you can post up in a chat room supporting ideas that run counter to those our country was founded on.

We get a few more of your types in this country, and freedom of speech will probably go away too. Being it's part of "the past" and all..

let me ask you this,if a new law stating if you take a life yours is taken also would you be against that?what if a race killed your sister or mother?

There is no constitutional protection against the death penalty.

It's not an issue in this thread.

[jking]

I've got an idea.

How about we mandate that all cars have a maximum speed of 75mph, and it takes 20 seconds to get there? All cars that exceed these parameters would be confiscated and destroyed, and the owners compensated for their value.

That would be the most effective solution.

Who's up for that?

[Mr. CarelessAndImprudent]

kinda funny they have a web site the cops can go check out their activities on.i think street racing is insane,anyone caught should loose their car and serve jail time.i don't think its any different than drinking while driving.i've seen people do some whacko things while driving WITHOUT racing.can you imagine whacko ricer the fast and the furious wannabe's racing while your mother or sister driving home from grandmas get in the way?if i see ANY street racing i always take licence numbers down,pictures if i have a camera with me and call it in.I know we have fast cars and its fun to drive them fast.but racing is for the TRACK ONLY!

by the way i don't really like cops too much because i feel they pick on the wrong people because of dicheads who do street race.i constantly get followed in the ta for no reason other than the cop thinks EVERYONE who owns a fast car is the fast and the furious.where are these cops when some peckerhead is following me @ 2 ft because i'm driving the speed limit?probably eatting a jelly donut.

So you're a narc? Does that make you feel good about yourself?

[Capster78]

I've got an idea.

How about we mandate that all cars have a maximum speed of 75mph, and it takes 20 seconds to get there? All cars that exceed these parameters would be confiscated and destroyed, and the owners compensated for their value.

That would be the most effective solution.

Who's up for that?

Id say maybe outlaw them on the street. The government would never have the funds to do that. If it ever got that bad that so many people were dieing that they would have to implament this, id walk to work lol.

[jking]

Id say maybe outlaw them on the street. The government would never have the funds to do that. If it ever got that bad that so many people were dieing that they would have to implament this, id walk to work lol.

I was just making a point about the whole freedom vs. safety thing.

If that ever happened, I would be the first to move...

That or join the New Republic of Texas or some shit...

[Bigrus]

Im real sure if the car was a 1980's model with rust all over it they would take it You know right now they will sieze anycar they can get more than 4k on. The ones who have a real shitty car will end up getting a huge fine.

I like cops, but i do find it funny how they end up getting a viper/millions of vettes from drug bust and bitch they make barley any money, or how they focus on street racing, and ticketing/seizing vehicles yet let jaun and his family of 20 drive away with thier tags out and no license after they just caused a huge wreck.

[YoMommasTA]

we all make good points.too bad that won't solve the problem.i think we must try extreme things when the extreme calls for it.

Capster78 i agree with you,its not often but dam the few i;ve seen were complete disasters.i;ve seen 10-15 cars wrecked while either street racing or street high speed playing? is what you would call it.i looked at a 3rd gen z28 a few years bk that flipped over at high speed because air got under the car.killed two people in the car.the car was so badly tore up it was shocking,BLOOD all over eveything,brains,guts,it was so bad it left me sick.the engine cam bk onto the pass and 1st smashed his legs off the burned him to death.the driver was decapitated,with his head ending bk with the spare tire.his legs under the dash.
i seen a new mustang that was speeding,lost it in a turn,hit a stop sign,stop sign post broke off. periced the floor pan impaling the driver through his seat up through his buttocks into his body cavity.nasty!

[jking]

Im real sure if the car was a 1980's model with rust all over it they would take it You know right now they will sieze anycar they can get more than 4k on. The ones who have a real shitty car will end up getting a huge fine.

I like cops, but i do find it funny how they end up getting a viper/millions of vettes from drug bust and bitch they make barley any money, or how they focus on street racing, and ticketing/seizing vehicles yet let jaun and his family of 20 drive away with thier tags out and no license after they just caused a huge wreck.

Exactly.

The town where I work has a BMW X5 turned police cruiser with "THIS VEHICLE WAS CONFISCATED FROM A DRUG DEALER" written on the back.


I don't see too many burned out Astro Vans running around in police trim...

...

[Bigrus]

Exactly.

The town where I work has a BMW X5 turned police cruiser with "THIS VEHICLE WAS CONFISCATED FROM A DRUG DEALER" written on the back.


I don't see too many burned out Astro Vans running around in police trim...

...

yeah ours have a mercedes SUV.

[jking]

we all make good points.too bad that won't solve the problem.i think we must try extreme things when the extreme calls for it.

Capster78 i agree with you,its not often but dam the few i;ve seen were complete disasters.i;ve seen 10-15 cars wrecked while either street racing or street high speed playing? is what you would call it.i looked at a 3rd gen z28 a few years bk that flipped over at high speed because air got under the car.killed two people in the car.the car was so badly tore up it was shocking,BLOOD all over eveything,brains,guts,it was so bad it left me sick.the engine cam bk onto the pass and 1st smashed his legs off the burned him to death.the driver was decapitated,with his head ending bk with the spare tire.his legs under the dash.
i seen a new mustang that was speeding,lost it in a turn,hit a stop sign,stop sign post broke off. periced the floor pan impaling the driver through his seat up through his buttocks into his body cavity.nasty!

The more freedom, the less safety you're gonna have. It's just the way it works.

If you live in a germ free bubble, in a nuclear blast shelter a mile underground, then you're very safe, but not very free.

If there were no laws, then it would be total freedom, but not very safe.

You have to find a balance.

IMO, the perfect balance is protecting people's right to life, liberty and property from force or fraud. You have total freedom, but are not allowed to infringe on other's safety.

Driving reckless certainly infringes on other's safety, so I think there should be laws against it.

But looting private property is not acceptable.

The reason it's not is this- (Other than it's illegal)

The government is the only entitiy who is allowed to impose it's will with the threat of lethal force. No matter what, every law is ultimately underwritten with this threat.

The reason we have a constitution, is to protect the citizenry from government abusing this overwhelming responsibility.

Essentially it is "we the people" dictating to government what power we allow them to exercise over us, or more accurately, what the limits of their power are.

Once we start allowing them to pick and choose what part they want to follow, then it's the proverbial slippery slope.


But at the end of the day, I realize that more and more people are accepting the government pissing on the constitution. Especially when it fits your pet issue, like if you hate street racing, or gay marriage, or whatever.

Pretty soon they will get to an issue you care about, and you're gonna be just as fucked as the fag you didn't want to see married, or the street racer who bought his car legitimately but got it confiscated for breaking the law.

But because more and more people accept it, the politicians will do it more and more, so there is really nothing I, or any one person can do about it..

So I just sit here and wish bad things on those responsible for fucking up my country.

Obviously I'm just being sarcastic about hoping the judge's family is inside his burning house...

[LS1 Eddie]

did you miss the part about due process of law? meaning if they make a law saying if your caught racing.. we can take your car..then you race..and get caught and the judge finds you guilty....they can take your property..it says it right there.

Brandon,

You make an excellent point, however the criminal justice system today is at a high rate changing pace. jking does make a point though as well. A lawyer will argue in favor that perhaps it was an unrightful siezure, and somehow make a case off of one of the Bill Of Rights. I don't have them memorized yet but I'm sure I will soon being pre-law/poly science major.

It's for reasons like you two making up logical reasons as to what is right or wrong in this situation that if given the right circumstances for example different judges, that a case like this has the potential to move up in it's ranks of being a case that gets handled at the State level. Oh well just my thoughts.

[jking]

The law states that you can't deprive someone of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law, and then clearly makes an exception for private property

nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

In other words, I can't claim you stole my TV, and the cops just can't bust down your door and give me your TV without going through a legal process of proving it's mine.

It's called the presumption of innocence. The TV in your posession is yours until I prove it's not.


That is entirely different than siezing someone's car which they legitimately own, and using it for public use without just compensation.

Like using it in stings, crushing it, or selling it at an auction.

I think that the law is very clear here.

[jking]

Now if you can prove that the car was bought with stolen money, or illegal drug money, then it changes things up a bit.

For instance, you can't rob a bank, go buy a Viper, and then claim it's yours when you get out of jail. In that case the car should be auctioned, and the bank reimbursed.

The state should have nothing to gain from the sale. It's responsibility is simply to help the bank recoup it's losses.


Drug money is really a gray area becasue-

1. You have to prove that the car was bought with drug money, and not through legitimate means.

2. Selling drugs is a victimless crime, so there is nobody to reimburse.

[ls1bandit]

nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

okay jking, you need a little lawschool 101, you CAN be deprived of your property as long as due process is follow, meaning if they make a law that you get your car taken if you are caught street racing and you are found guilty of it, then you car goes bye-bye, if your private property is taken for PUBLIC USE, that is different then being taken as a result of a crime, public use would be getting bought out for an airport expansion or a train, then you get fair market value for it, it DOES NOT include being compensated for your vehicle being taken for street racing.

[toneloc60]

No matter what side of the fence you stand on with the legal implications of vehicle seizure, you don't have to worry about it if you don't race. Also, maybe the local governments should really consider giving permission to racers and give them a time, a place and have police and paramedics there to control the environment. That would solve a lot of the issues.