Fast Vs. Reliable

[shady milkman]

Having been there and done it, I'd have to disagree with both statements. Throwing more horsepower at something naturally puts more stress on everything. More load and stress = less reliable, no matter how perfect it runs. If it was "very very easy" then there'd be a whole lot more cars that could do it. There's tons of people who worry about how high it dyno's, but can't run a number anywhere near impressive at the track. LUCK has a good bit to do with it also IMHO. I've whooped up on cars with 100+ more dyno proven horsepower, and know at least one guy who ran quicker than me with less horsepower. (My 3755# SS made 344rwhp yet ran a best of 11.61@116).


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dyno numbers dont mean shit...a high peaking set up will never run as well as a broad curve with tons of power underneath the curve...that is why i laugh when i see people go off of peak numbers and expect to beat every car with less power....people over-cam their cars 80% of the time if not more..they go for big duration ..instead of really paying attention to EVO,EVC,IVO,IVC....dyno numbers mean nothing...ETs mean everything

[rel3rd]

dyno numbers dont mean shit...a high peaking set up will never run as well as a broad curve with tons of power underneath the curve...that is why i laugh when i see people go off of peak numbers and expect to beat every car with less power....people over-cam their cars 80% of the time if not more..they go for big duration ..instead of really paying attention to EVO,EVC,IVO,IVC....dyno numbers mean nothing...ETs mean everything

EXACTLY!!!

[shady milkman]

EXACTLY!!!

after doing a lot of research the cam i will be getting will look rather small on paper..but its a torque bish with alot of power under the curve, with a shit ton of low end/mid and a decent high end... and it will love my 3600 stall i am getting and the AFR 215 heads i hope to surprise a few folks

[ibanez7]

how much hp you make per rpm will always dominate peak hp.

This is why the new ls3, ls7 and ls9 are great engines, they make a more power per rpm then our ls1 engines did.

[Mr. Luos]

Been running over 500RWHP without much issue for over 4 years now.
Granted, that is only 11K miles on that motor.

[shady milkman]

how much hp you make per rpm will always dominate peak hp.

This is why the new ls3, ls7 and ls9 are great engines, they make a more power per rpm then our ls1 engines did.

not to mention..basically at idle the ls9 makes what the ls1 did at peak for torque

[0rion]

cheap.....fast....reliable


Pick 2.

[blackSS01]

Having been there and done it, I'd have to disagree with both statements. Throwing more horsepower at something naturally puts more stress on everything. More load and stress = less reliable, no matter how perfect it runs. If it was "very very easy" then there'd be a whole lot more cars that could do it. There's tons of people who worry about how high it dyno's, but can't run a number anywhere near impressive at the track. LUCK has a good bit to do with it also IMHO. I've whooped up on cars with 100+ more dyno proven horsepower, and know at least one guy who ran quicker than me with less horsepower. (My 3755# SS made 344rwhp yet ran a best of 11.61@116).

As far as cheaply being out of the question...that's definitely a matter of opinion as to what exactly is expensive and what's cheap? With a house payment and 3 kids, I have to shop around for my mods, and it easily saves me a ton of cash.

I started with a bone stock 2000 SS that had 110,000 miles on it. ($8000)
Did all the common A4 street/strip mods...free ramair, lid ($100), used catback ($200), used ory w/used longtubes ($200 for both), drag radials ($320), and a used Vigilante 3600 stall ($450), and a basic tune for $400. The car went 12.66@107 in the heat and humidity of the Summer.
I bought a used cam ($200), new 918 springs, pushrods, and gaskets ($300 or so), and also bought my own used copy of HPTuners ($200). The car went 11.75@114 the first time back to the track and soon after some tweaking to the tune, went 11.60's@115 all day long, best of 11.61@116. It'd go 11.80's in the middle of the Summer. With heavy TT2's (instead of ProStars) at all 4 corners it ran 12.0's all day long. There was no high dollar suspension work, no fancy high dollar transmission or rear, and the car could be driven anywhere/anytime, by anybody, yet still yanked the front wheels at every launch. Gotta love that.

Even if everything was bought new, it still was a nice dollar to horsepower ratio IMO. Especially when you look around at all the higher budgeted 400+ horsepower cars that can't get out of the 12's.




Not sure where you have gotten this info, but it just isn't true. If properly broken in, valvesprings are designed to last 100,000 miles +. Obviously, a higher lift cam is harder on them than a stock cam would be, but the reality of it is that you do not zing the engine to redline more than you just cruise around. Revving to 6500 every time you take off from a red light would surely wear out springs quicker than if you didn't, but even then it isn't as dramatic as you seem to think. FWIW, I beat the crap out of my car everytime I drove it (it was a toy). I made well over 150 passes on it over two Summers. And my old 918 springs still let the car rev easily to it's 6800 rpm redline anytime it wanted to.



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Have to respectively disagree with a few things. Cheap and Cheaper are two different things. You did it cheaper then it would have been before shopping around but you didn't do it cheap (I hope). And performance parts are built better then stock, thats why they add performance thus they should last longer if properly maintained. People have gotten into the 11's with stall/cam/couple bolt ons, that too me is easy. But hey, we all have our different opinions

[rel3rd]

People have gotten into the 11's with stall/cam/couple bolt ons, that too me is easy. But hey, we all have our different opinions

I'm one of them, so I know it's possible.
So, you're saying that you'll easily run mid 11's when you've gotten the cam and converter installed? Because you should. Just don't be surprised if you don't find it as easy as you think. The whole package is what makes the difference between the ones that can do it, and the ones that should do it.

Good Luck with your setup.

[ibanez7]

I'm one of them, so I know it's possible.
So, you're saying that you'll easily run mid 11's when you've gotten the cam and converter installed? Because you should. Just don't be surprised if you don't find it as easy as you think. The whole package is what makes the difference between the ones that can do it, and the ones that should do it.

Good Luck with your setup.

so true I have seen many cars run 11s with simple basic setups. then other car owners expect to run the same or faster with similiar builds and cry when they dont even come close.

[Z28Thunder]

11s that usually means a larger cam swap and changing out springs often..

A .224/.228 will get you in the 11's. Heck 11's are possible without a cam. And I am not talking Nitrous. Why would you have to change springs often???

Run mid 11's myself here. I have the same 918's since what 04. And I run .598/.595 ...

[Z28Thunder]

People have gotten into the 11's with stall/cam/couple bolt ons, that too me is easy. But hey, we all have our different opinions

Stall/cam and gears here. And IMO while it seems and looks simple. It does take the correct setup.

[310stanger]

In regards to the valvesprings issue. If you are changing valvesprings at 20k, you are either buying shit springs that arent sufficifent for the cam you are using, you didnt use the right length pushrods or both. Who wants to change springs at 20k? i sure dont. Its not "hard" but its enough of a pain in the ass that you shouldnt have to. I believe that if your combo is correct, and the right parts were chosen, you can have close to stock reliability. Its the engines that were built for 1/4 mile times and have dfi and stand alone computers that have constant reliable issues.

[blackSS01]

I'm one of them, so I know it's possible.
So, you're saying that you'll easily run mid 11's when you've gotten the cam and converter installed? Because you should. Just don't be surprised if you don't find it as easy as you think. The whole package is what makes the difference between the ones that can do it, and the ones that should do it.

Good Luck with your setup.

I have a M6 so I will have to work a little harder for my 11's And I didn't mean mid 11's. Just breaking into them

[rel3rd]

oops, I forgot 6 speed cars need 500rwhp to run mid 11's, lol...

j/k...good luck with your setup. I sold mine a month ago to take a little break from this nasty and sometimes expensive habit, lol.

[blackSS01]

oops, I forgot 6 speed cars need 500rwhp to run mid 11's, lol...

j/k...good luck with your setup. I sold mine a month ago to take a little break from this nasty and sometimes expensive habit, lol.

Yeah, its worse then crack

[Mr. Luos]

oops, I forgot 6 speed cars need 500rwhp to run mid 11's, lol...

That's just me.

[Hi-Po]

That's just me.

[jb3golf]

dyno numbers dont mean shit...a high peaking set up will never run as well as a broad curve with tons of power underneath the curve...that is why i laugh when i see people go off of peak numbers and expect to beat every car with less power....people over-cam their cars 80% of the time if not more..they go for big duration ..instead of really paying attention to EVO,EVC,IVO,IVC....dyno numbers mean nothing...ETs mean everything

+1 Milkman!!!! Well done.

[86 IROC-Z]

Strong bump.


And ewwwww, joshiedoom