dealership key made..

**rbob93** · 01-25-2009, 04:34 PM

I've bought quite a few used cars over the years.....can't tell you how many CC card reciepts I've found in glove compartments.

**BowTied** · 01-25-2009, 04:54 PM

Not to scare you too bad. I'm an Electrical Engineer and don't work a whole lot on circuits. But in a day, I could take a wireless device, make a few antennas and simple amplifier circuits and know your frequency and modulation (signal form and code mix). Spend another day and make my own. And like I said this isn't what I do all of the time. People who were serious could be doing this in no time.

You could set up a circuit (I have made a similar one) preset to mix in many frequency ranges and have multiple conditioning stages. Pick up a garage door opener or keyless entry and be duplicating that code in minutes.

I really like my car...but I make sure that is all a thief could get by these means and a few tools and such in the garage. He comes through that locked door to my house and it is me and my 12 ga. waiting on the other side!

**BowTied** · 01-25-2009, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by rbob93

I've bought quite a few used cars over the years.....can't tell you how many CC card reciepts I've found in glove compartments.

I'm always stepping off in the wife's ass about this! "Good thing most only show a few numbers from your card." That is what she says...and I won't go too far into it but that could be enough for a very smart thief.

(I had my identity stolen one time! What a hassle!)

**Firebirdjones** · 01-26-2009, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by BowTied

Not to scare you too bad. I'm an Electrical Engineer and don't work a whole lot on circuits. But in a day, I could take a wireless device, make a few antennas and simple amplifier circuits and know your frequency and modulation (signal form and code mix). Spend another day and make my own. And like I said this isn't what I do all of the time. People who were serious could be doing this in no time.

You could set up a circuit (I have made a similar one) preset to mix in many frequency ranges and have multiple conditioning stages. Pick up a garage door opener or keyless entry and be duplicating that code in minutes.

I really like my car...but I make sure that is all a thief could get by these means and a few tools and such in the garage. He comes through that locked door to my house and it is me and my 12 ga. waiting on the other side!

Yep, I've even seen where the potential thief can be 50 yards away and use a device to read your garage door opening frequency when you push your button to get in. Then he makes his own and poof, he's in when you are gone.

**BowTied** · 01-26-2009, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Yep, I've even seen where the potential thief can be 50 yards away and use a device to read your garage door opening frequency when you push your button to get in. Then he makes his own and poof, he's in when you are gone.

Yeah, it all depends on how well he made his antenna. I figure you can find the frequency range online (just looked, yep) and if you build your antenna centered on that range with plenty of gain (amplifies signals at that frequency) along with a good filter and amplifier you could set back a good ways. (Good directional design matters too (how well it "aims")).

OK, I looked, the newest designs use rolling code features (very difficult to break). A new code is generated every time you use the opener. The base sends back a code. I believe this code sent to the opener is an input to an algorithm that keeps base and opener coherent (on the same coding.) This is much, much better!!!

**bigrondownhiller** · 01-26-2009, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by BowTied

Yeah, it all depends on how well he made his antenna. I figure you can find the frequency range online (just looked, yep) and if you build your antenna centered on that range with plenty of gain (amplifies signals at that frequency) along with a good filter and amplifier you could set back a good ways. (Good directional design matters too (how well it "aims")).

OK, I looked, the newest designs use rolling code features (very difficult to break). A new code is generated every time you use the opener. The base sends back a code. I believe this code sent to the opener is an input to an algorithm that keeps base and opener coherent (on the same coding.) This is much, much better!!!

They have been using the rolling codes in garage door openers and car alarms for several years now. If you know what you are doing you can still get around it though.

**turbogiblets** · 01-26-2009, 11:19 AM

I'm lost here...why do you need a key cut when your car is stolen??? Were the keys stolen and you need the key to show the insurance co.???

**rbob93** · 01-26-2009, 11:31 AM

I think he figures someone made a key a stole his car.

**turbogiblets** · 01-26-2009, 11:36 AM

Yup, I'm an idiot...makes alot more sense now after re-reading it!

**Cutlass** · 01-27-2009, 06:21 PM

I work at a GM dealer. The dealer's parts dept can cut a key from the VIN (assuming it has been changed since the car came off the assembly line). They are required to make a copy of your ID and your title and keep it in their records. They take the VIN and access a GM database for the key cut code. I'm not sure if the database keeps a record of who access's which VINs.
Call your favorite local GM dealership's parts dept and ask them.

**Cutlass** · 01-27-2009, 06:21 PM

I work at a GM dealer. The dealer's parts dept can cut a key from the VIN (assuming it has not been changed since the car came off the assembly line). They are required to make a copy of your ID and your title and keep it in their records. They take the VIN and access a GM database for the key cut code. I'm not sure if the database keeps a record of who access's which VINs.
Call your favorite local GM dealership's parts dept and ask them.

**2kSSnTX** · 02-08-2009, 01:12 PM

Well, its been 14 days today and my car has not been found, little police assistance and lots of frustration.

Wife was able to get an officer to contact the dealership, but thats about it. No key was made, thats on record...

So, its possible to take the car without a key i'm guessing... I would really like to know what happened. Or at least put the %$#^er in jail.

I think i'm going to get a G8 when i get the money. But now I need to know how to protect it.. Covering the VIN will be the first thing. Any other suggestions are welcome.

**Firebirdjones** · 02-08-2009, 01:26 PM

Sorry to hear that. It's probably stripped and sold by now unfortunately. My fathers car was never found either when it was stolen.

In any event, I generally don't leave my crap out of sight when around town but when I take a 4th gen on a trip and don't have a choice there are some simple things you can do besides covering the vin.
If I park for the night at a motel for instance, I pop the hood and pull the relays out for starter, ignition, and fuel pump, and any other relay that can be removed and put in it's place.
Fuses will do the same trick. Takes a few minutes but it sure is piece of mind when your head hits the pillow for the night. The only way they are taking it is on a hook

On my older cars when out of town for a big car meet I would take the coil wire in and remove the battery and take that into the motel with me, then chain the hood shut. On the older stuff I also have hidden kill switches that take another key.

When we moved accross country I drove my truck with enclosed trailer and my chevelle inside in tow. When we would stop for the night my wife and son hit the hay and I would go out and sleep in the truck. There was just too much at stake and I didn't see any other way around it.
Sometimes you just have to go to extremes, especially when in unfamiliar territory. I just don't trust people.

I hope it all works out for ya though. Sounds like you have something nice in store.

**BowTied** · 02-09-2009, 01:58 AM

I like that relay method! It would take a thief sometime to get a car with the relays removed...most couldn't do it at all!

I've thought about doing the kill switch. Maybe another keyless that had to be triggered that toggled a mosfet on the battery ground and in the starter coil feed (the battery ground being always closed unless someone put power on the starter coil, then a differential circuit would read that and disconnect ground.) I could bury this good, I'd like to see a thief figure that out!

**Too Fast** · 02-09-2009, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Cutlass

I work at a GM dealer. The dealer's parts dept can cut a key from the VIN (assuming it has been changed since the car came off the assembly line). They are required to make a copy of your ID and your title and keep it in their records. They take the VIN and access a GM database for the key cut code. I'm not sure if the database keeps a record of who access's which VINs.
Call your favorite local GM dealership's parts dept and ask them.

^^^When we need to get a new key, if we get one from the dealership with the VIN, they won't do it unless we show them the customers registration. I guess we don't have the right connections to do it the illegal way.

If we just need a copy of an existing key, we take it to the hardware shop.

**Firebirdjones** · 02-09-2009, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by BowTied

I like that relay method! It would take a thief sometime to get a car with the relays removed...most couldn't do it at all!

I've thought about doing the kill switch. Maybe another keyless that had to be triggered that toggled a mosfet on the battery ground and in the starter coil feed (the battery ground being always closed unless someone put power on the starter coil, then a differential circuit would read that and disconnect ground.) I could bury this good, I'd like to see a thief figure that out!

Yes the kill switch is affective. I have it on all the classic cars, but I'm not sure how to wire it on a 4th gen yet. Which is why I resorted to pulling the relays.
I use a key type switch, a pair of them on the classic cars. One I use to kill the coil just as you mentioned, the other switch I wire through the neutral safety switch and hide that in a different location, again using a key switch.
A thief just doesn't have the time to locate 2 hidden key switches and if he/she did, the time it would take to cross the wires and bypass would certainly slow them down to the point that getting caught is a real possibility.

On the classic cars that I run an electric fuel pump on I also have a kill switch of sorts too. I wire the pump through a factory rear window defog switch that is mounted in the stock dash location and looks as though it belongs, yet it's there to run the fuel pump

Not exactly hidden but it's not for what someone would think it is for.