Air Filters?

**Sarge** · 11-07-2007, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by lonewolf37

Who runs a dyno pull for 2HP?

Royal Purple

**jag42420** · 11-07-2007, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by lonewolf37

Who runs a dyno pull for 2HP?

Someone here did, they had time left on the dyno and ran it a couple times, consistently losing 2HP with the K&N over the Fram.

**blue02Z** · 11-07-2007, 11:53 AM

**kool-aide** · 11-07-2007, 01:58 PM

well I have always used Purolator filters

Sarge I hear what you're saying but can you honestly believe a 50 filter is going to save an engine over a Purolator, Fram, AC Delco, or any 11 dollar filter?

I know the big names are good at what they do and "generally" make good products. But most big companies want a 42% profit off their product (or more). Smaller companies looking to break in to a market are willing to make mush less. That's what I mean about paying for hype. Who is making a massive profit off the name versus providing a truly superior product worth twice (or more) the cost.

I just thought if a normal Purolator was going to set me back 11-12 bucks, why not spend a few bucks more and try a washable one, maybe over time i can save money. Most people don't think twice about saving money on a washable for their home AC, why not my car.

What I really want is the SLP lid. GM Performance gave it high marks, and the cost seems to be "ok."

**blue02Z** · 11-07-2007, 07:55 PM

kool-aide, go check out AEM and look at their dryflow filters. they kick ass!!! flow really nice and filter awesome, no oil, completely reusable... i put on one my moms truck with the brute force CAI and could def. feel a difference. sounds sweet as hell

**Sarge** · 11-08-2007, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by kool-aide

well I have always used Purolator filters

Sarge I hear what you're saying but can you honestly believe a 50 filter is going to save an engine over a Purolator, Fram, AC Delco, or any 11 dollar filter?

I know the big names are good at what they do and "generally" make good products. But most big companies want a 42% profit off their product (or more). Smaller companies looking to break in to a market are willing to make mush less. That's what I mean about paying for hype. Who is making a massive profit off the name versus providing a truly superior product worth twice (or more) the cost.

I just thought if a normal Purolator was going to set me back 11-12 bucks, why not spend a few bucks more and try a washable one, maybe over time i can save money. Most people don't think twice about saving money on a washable for their home AC, why not my car.

What I really want is the SLP lid. GM Performance gave it high marks, and the cost seems to be "ok."

I honestly believe you get more dirt and shit with cheap ass filter and that leads to premature wear and loss of performance all for what? To save 30 bucks? Yes I believe that.

**slims00ls1z28** · 11-08-2007, 06:00 AM

Looking on the Amsoil site for the GTO and they didn't have an Amsoil one they had a wix is it just as good? Haven't gotten anything yet for it and was considering the K&N but if the Amsoil is as good or better for roughly the same or even less than I'd go that route.

**ibanez7** · 11-08-2007, 06:22 AM

i deal with speed inc only and have never had a problem, great shop!!!

however in regards to oil based k/n filters vs cotton...

my car cammed dynoed the same number with both and clean oiled k/n and a fram cotton. Also too many people over oil there filters and that fucks with the MAF.

I just run a cotton filter because I hate spending the time to clean the oil filters. Plus when I'm at the track I pull the filter anyways...

If I where to buy a highflow again it would be the amsoil (same as the donaldson blackwing for the vettes)

**jag42420** · 11-08-2007, 08:26 AM

I've seen several dynos from before and after K&N replacement filters, and there were really no gains that were noteworthy over Wix or Fram paper filters, with exception to their air intake kits.

From K&N's own website concerning replacement filters:
"2. What increase in horsepower should I see from a K&N replacement filter?

We perform internal dyno (power curve) testing on all our product designs. Our replacement filters are designed to provide up to 4 horsepower. Your results will vary depending on your vehicle, driving habits, load on the engine (towing for example), existing air system restriction, and other factors."

In comparison to their intake kit claims:
"K&N Intake Kits are Guaranteed to Increase Power!

Every Intake Kit we design has been tested on a Dynamometer and proven to increase horsepower. We measure horsepower at the wheels. The horsepower rating that may have been on the window sticker when your car was new is often a measurement of horsepower at the engine and there can be a loss of horsepower through the drive train by the time it reaches the wheels.

K&N hereby warrants and guaranties to the original retail purchaser of any K&N air intake kit that the vehicle on which the air intake system is installed will gain an increase in horsepower, or K&N will refund the purchase price, including sales tax, to the retail purchaser, subject to the following terms and conditions:
The K&N air intake system must have been properly installed on the vehicle in accordance with the included K&N instructions.
The system must be the correct part number for the vehicle upon which it was installed.
The vehicle must be in good running condition.
The vehicle must undergo a dynamometer test both before and after the installation of the system, with no changes to the vehicle, except for the installation of the kit. The dyno tests must be performed by the same testing facility and must be performed within 30 days of one another and within 60 days of the date of purchase. The test results or work order for each test must reflect the name and address of the vehicle owner or operator having the test performed; the year, make, model and mileage of the vehicle being tested; and the horsepower results from both tests.
If the dyno tests show that the vehicle did not gain an increase in horsepower, then the retail purchaser must return the complete air intake system to K&N in its original packaging, together with his or her proof of purchase, the ORIGINALS of the two dyno tests statement requesting a refund in accordance with our Horsepower Guarantee. Upon receipt of all of the foregoing, K&N will refund the full purchase price, including sales tax, to the original retail purchaser.
This guaranty does not apply to any other costs incurred by the purchase, including, but not limited to, the dyno tests, parts and labor for the installation and removal of the air intake system, shipping costs, rental car, loss of use or incidental damages, if any, and K&N expressly disclaims any and all liability for same. "

They have a HP guarantee on their kits, which generally achieve their gains through more free flowing tubing, but there is no guarantee on a replacement filter. I think that alone speaks for itself.

I am not against K&N, I have the FIPKII intake kit on my truck. My truck gained on responsiveness and power impressively, but my IATs jumped 50 degrees and cost me 2mpg, presumably from the poorly designed heat shield. (I have since modified the airbox and regained my mileage and IATs.) I think they offer decent gains on their kits, and their filters may well flow more air compared to stock. I just don't see any evidence that the average motor requires any more air than paper filters can deliver.

Obviously everyone has their own opinion. That's mine.

**lonewolf37** · 11-08-2007, 02:28 PM

I can just see myself running down to the shop that does my work and asking them to do a dyno pull to verify a 4HP difference attributed to an air filter.
They would charge me $125 for the dyno pulls and tell me I have lost my mind.
The function of an air filter is to keep crap out of my engine.
I fell for the K@N Filtercharger hype.
Now I have learned that there are better filters for less money.
So I am putting the Amsoil in, the K@N is out. I am not real happy about replacing a $50 filter. However filters are a lot cheaper than motors, and anything that helps my motor live longer gets my business.
My two cents worth.

**kool-aide** · 11-09-2007, 03:57 AM

blue02Z, what part number? I didn't see camaro or firebird listed in their product search drop downs.

**Smkn_TA** · 11-09-2007, 04:59 AM

I have K&N air filter...but I have a functional ram air hood with the open filter right on top, so I like to show off with something nice. I'd consider amsoil if I was going to put it under a black lid that no one would ever see, but hey, I open my hood up, so K&N.

**blue02Z** · 11-09-2007, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by kool-aide

blue02Z, what part number? I didn't see camaro or firebird listed in their product search drop downs.

shit, i thought they had them. i know they have em for lt1's so assumed ls1 as well. see if they can make you one or cross reference. if not i would go with amsoil

**blue02Z** · 11-09-2007, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Smkn_TA

I have K&N air filter...but I have a functional ram air hood with the open filter right on top, so I like to show off with something nice. I'd consider amsoil if I was going to put it under a black lid that no one would ever see, but hey, I open my hood up, so K&N.

thats kinda funny...

...you would rather take the chance of your maf getting f'd up with oil and/or sucking dirt in that the k&n misses rather than have a blue synthetic filter sitting in there

i personally like the way amsoil filters look better than k&n and i have an open air filter showing for my functional ram air

**slims00ls1z28** · 11-09-2007, 10:22 AM

I am not going to doubt for a second that the K&N is hype but I put one on my car at like 14K miles and had the FTRA mod. I had to clean the filter at least every other week switching it around weekly given the lond distances I drive and the dusty backroads I take frequently. Most of the time I got lazy and did it monthly. My motor is apart now after 156K miles behind a K&N and as hard as I abused it daily there is nothing on the cylinder walls or any sign whatsoever of unfiltered dirt. Not really saying that K&N was a dramatic improvement but I found no adverse wear on mine because of it and I have 156K of hard mileage on mine.

**1fastcamarosss11** · 11-09-2007, 10:41 AM

look at the filters for you home furnace? 1.00 or 13.00 look at the difference in just how much one picks up, and if you can see through it.
same principle really.

i have 2 holley filters one green one blue, they seem to work fine.
i haven't driven my cars enough to clean them a second time.

**richard head** · 11-09-2007, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by INMY01TA

You could dyno a car back to back with out changing anything and get 2hp difference.

Exactly his point.

**richard head** · 11-09-2007, 11:09 AM

Look at it this way, if the K&N was really as great as it is claimed to be then why, with all the mileage crisis that's going on, would the manufacturers not use them and claim that extra few mpg on the window sticker?!

In HPTuners I actually saw a loss of 1 lb/min logged by my MAF when I switched from a paper filter to a Donaldson Blackwing. Switched back and the MAF is hitting 33 again instead of just 32.

**Wesman** · 11-09-2007, 01:03 PM

I believe that these new high flow synthetic filters, such as the AEM Dryflow and Amsoil Ea, are the way to go these days. They provide just as much (or better flow) than cotton gauze filters, filter a whole lot better, hold more dirt, and don't need to be oiled.

What K&N should do is begin switching their product line over from cotton gauze to a heavy duty dry synthetic element like the AEM Dryflow/Amsoil Ea, otherwise they will be left behind. They would probably make enough money off the amount of people who trade in their cotton filters just for the convienence of not having to oil them to justify the cost of developing the new filter and lost profits from not selling oil kits.

I wish AEM would make a dryflow panel filter for our cars, I'd order one right now. Easy to clean, 99.52% dust filtration, no oil kits, high flow, count me in.