I'm a Oil Junkie

**ScrapMaker** · 04-09-2006, 09:19 PM

I find it funny that all these people use mobile one for 3-4 times the price of regular or blended synthetic... when the results are the same... it's just that once you start using the expensive stuff, you gotta justify it in your own mind... same with anything though... if you buy overpriced goods, you don't want to look silly, so people try to argue it's better when it's really not...

if you change your oil every 2-3k miles, like you should, then mobile 1 will cost you a bundle for no noticeable difference...

**Hi-Po** · 04-09-2006, 09:24 PM

Alright, i am fixing my 2000 Durango up (130xxx miles) . have rear end grease and gasket for a long time and its synthtic. Its cool if i put sythetic in my rear end after 130000 or so miles right?

**GatorSS** · 04-09-2006, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by ScrapMaker

...if you change your oil every 2-3k miles, like you should...

Uh oh, here we go again.

**MadSeason** · 04-09-2006, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by ScrapMaker

I find it funny that all these people use mobile one for 3-4 times the price of regular or blended synthetic... when the results are the same... it's just that once you start using the expensive stuff, you gotta justify it in your own mind... same with anything though... if you buy overpriced goods, you don't want to look silly, so people try to argue it's better when it's really not...

if you change your oil every 2-3k miles, like you should, then mobile 1 will cost you a bundle for no noticeable difference...

ever change hot dyno oil in your car, ever change hot synthetic oil... the friction modifiers make a huge difference in temp and protection

**ScrapMaker** · 04-09-2006, 11:37 PM

So, seeing that I always get at least 150k or more (usually sell the car before then,) out of a typical motor... with dino oil... should I expect full-synthetic to achieve, what, 250k? How much better, supposedly, is synthetic?

**MadSeason** · 04-10-2006, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Damn good stuff....the question is not which oil is the best....cuz there is no answer to that question....the question is which oil is best for me...my motor...my driving habits....OCI.....climate...geographical terrain....
If I drive a 600 RWHP street beast every two weeks to town and back....synthetics are probably not for me....unless I change oil in that street beast twice a year....for folks who drive around normal like....getting on it every so often.....change their oil every 3-5 thousand miles....hell a good dino is just fine.....but...and that is a big but.....same folks will get better performance from a synthetic.....with the same OCI's..higher cost for sure....but will get better performance.....now the argument will be engine longevity.....who cares?
Bottom line is....you can run a high dollar synthetic....have OCI's of 3-5K and that is no problem...you can also go mouse hunting with a shotgun....mouse is still dead and your engine is still just fine on synthetics and 3-5K OCI's.....you can also be just fine with say Havoline 10-40 dino and a .22 pistol...your engine is still fine and the mouse is still dead as hell....

fished this up for ya since you didn't bother to read it

**ScrapMaker** · 04-10-2006, 07:06 AM

anyone actually have any numbers to back up the performance increase/longevity/superiority? I've had plenty of people try and convince me, but never any proof...

the only thing I've ever heard is that supposedly the molecules are smaller in synthetic, and that it's more prone to leak out of worn seals in older motors... but I doubt it's significant

**GatorSS** · 04-10-2006, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by ScrapMaker

So, seeing that I always get at least 150k or more (usually sell the car before then,) out of a typical motor...

Just curious...that many miles, and by your stated assertion you must have had at least two cars, would make a minimum of 300k miles you have driven...and you are 21 years old. So, you've been driving for what, 5 or 6 years... That would mean that you have been driving at least 50 to 60k miles per year... Wow! That's a lot of driving. Where have you been going?

**Sarge** · 04-10-2006, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by ScrapMaker

anyone actually have any numbers to back up the performance increase/longevity/superiority? I've had plenty of people try and convince me, but never any proof...

the only thing I've ever heard is that supposedly the molecules are smaller in synthetic, and that it's more prone to leak out of worn seals in older motors... but I doubt it's significant

Well now there are tons of supporting documentation for synthetics providing better protection/ resulting in longer engine life.....
Any VOA ( Virgin Oil Analysis) reflects superior anti oxidation/friction modifiers/seal conditioners/viscosity enhancer etc. found in synthetics....VOA's are done for like $20 bucks and show the TBN along with the components of an oil.......here is a recent one I had done on the Cosworth 5-40

It reflects and outstanding VOA and a very robust oil.....of course for $8 bucks a liter it damn well better be..

Furthermore UOA's ( Used Oil Analysis ) show wear metals and how your choice of oil is doing in your motor with your OCI's ( Oil Change Intervals)...this will show you if you have the proper viscosity and/or oil in your ride and is specific to your driving habits/motor mods/geographical considerations etc....this exercise helps tune your choice of oils.....so a fella in Oklahoma with a LS1 that he baby's around town in 75 degree weather may use 5-30 and get great UOA numbers but a fella in Michigan who is in 20 degree weather and who romps the shit out of his LS1 at every stop light might get numbers that suck bathwater out of the same oil....this "tuning" of an oil is done from the UOA's....
Now to confuse the crap out of everybody what has happened is many of the Dino oils have began adding some significant add packs....significantly closing the gap on much higher dollar synthetics....In the ATF world the gap has all but vanished.....so now you must not only have a series of UOA's to tune your oil...but now you get to run your dino oil 5-6K miles easily......versus about the same for synthetics ( in our motors)...so with the gap so narrow now you gotta look at a return on investment and weigh the added performance ( if any) of higher dollar synthetics and see if they are worth it to you....most folks just want piece of mind they have the best in their baby and that would be a boutique oil like Amsoil/Royal Purple/Schaffers/Cosworth etc......I wouldn't bother with Mobil1/Castrol/Valvoline personally as the add packs found in regular Castrol GTX/Pennzoil are damn near what you get in those synthetics that cost $3 bucks per quart more......bottom line....don't get caught up in the size of a molecule

**MadSeason** · 04-10-2006, 08:56 AM

sarge, anyway to make that screenshot bigger?

**Sarge** · 04-10-2006, 10:31 AM

It is on my PC at the ranch....I'll blow it up a little when I get home....stout stuff though....gobs of Moly

**MadSeason** · 04-10-2006, 10:35 AM

yea i just ordered 7 liters of the 5w-40 that i'll put in after the cam swap in 2 weeks

**ScrapMaker** · 04-10-2006, 02:07 PM

What I was getting at is that I just don't see how the cost can be justified... it's like someone going out and buying a McIntosh car stereo that may sound the same as a rockford fosgate system for 1/20th the price... but once the suck-- person has purchased the more expensive item, they have to justify it in their mind, usually by associating with others who have purchased similar items... every once-in-a-while, I meet someone who is really into the expensive stuff, and their viewpoint is that "if it's expensive, it must be better..." -- Boy, do I despise it when people think like that...

anyways, can someone explain why Full-Synthetic is superior to the cheapo synthetic-blend that I use? Kendall 10w30...

and GatorSS I have owned 3 cars personally, and driven a few others for an extended period of time.

I drive about 400-500 miles a week, due to having two jobs, in cities 100 miles apart, and one of the jobs requiring a great deal of driving... plus I love to drive... no matter what car I'm in... so it all adds up.

The last car I was driving, had 165k on it... and it's had nothing but Valvoline 20w50... except one oil change where I let Firestone put in the Kendall blended-synthetic...

and I never said I personally put all the miles on each vehicle... just that I had driven then and seen them last to past 160k easily with regular-old dino oil...

Most of the people I know that use full synthetic just because a friend told them they had to, or a shop was trying to upsell them... they are also the type of person who will believe that a magnetic device that clamps on your incoming fuel line will somehow give you 20-30hp and 5+ MPG... (which I can't believe anyone would believe that... but that's a different matter altogether.)

it seems that if the benefit outweighed the costs of the full-synthetic, that EVERY car would use it... and every manufacturer would recommend/use it off the show-room floor...

I actually change my oil every 2k miles because I drive the car fairly hard, and deliver in it as well... so I'd spend a fortune on synthetic...

**MadSeason** · 04-10-2006, 03:35 PM

If every manufacturer recommended synthetics or to use the oil as long as it really lasts they'd stop making as much money as they do now. Your changing your oil every 2k with dyno, with a synthetic you could go ever 6k or even longer once you figure out your UOA. Add up the difference in that and you're paying about a dollar more for oil + 2 filters every 6000 miles and not getting the benefits the synthetic has to offer

**YoMommasTA** · 04-10-2006, 03:44 PM

i have a 89 camaro with 205k on it,always used regular pennzoil 5-30.it still doesn't smoke or use oil.changed regular every 3-5k depending on the time of year.i think synthetics are good but way over priced.

**ScrapMaker** · 04-10-2006, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by YoMommasTA

i think synthetics are good but way over priced.

bingo... they rip their customers a new one, with a smile...

**Sarge** · 04-11-2006, 04:34 AM

Is this better?

**MadSeason** · 04-11-2006, 08:47 AM

Yea thanks, loooks great. Going to throw that stuff in my engine when the cam gets swapped next weekend. Now just to figure out the change interval

**Laguna S-3** · 04-11-2006, 10:35 AM

Sarge,

I know that some people say that large doses of moly will not cause sludge in a engine today but would you be afraid to run a oil with a large amount of moly in an older engine that runs warm anyway?

I have just seen a newer engine that was run on Havoline only that has less than 90,000 miles and it is full of sludge.

**Sarge** · 04-11-2006, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Laguna S-3

Sarge,

I know that some people say that large doses of moly will not cause sludge in a engine today but would you be afraid to run a oil with a large amount of moly in an older engine that runs warm anyway?

I have just seen a newer engine that was run on Havoline only that has less than 90,000 miles and it is full of sludge.

Sludge is not caused by Moly....Sludge is caused by dirt/water/oxidation and an oils inability to clean and suspend the crap until it gets to the filter. I'd Auto RX that bad boy ( easy/cheap/very effective) http://www.auto-rx.com/
and go like hell from there....during the cleaning/rinse cycle only use a dino oil...after that go with whatever oil you want. Quit hanging around "some people" they dont know shit....I bet they are confusing Moly with Teflon and the old STP days.....or they may just go through life confused....I dunno....who knows