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Thread: '00 Z/28 Vs. '03 Mach 1
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06-15-2007, 08:40 AM #41
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B2300 (Fluffy) Retired- Plain-Jane Dodge Truck
I could probably find one listing for an LS1 with just exhaust work that was in the high 13's. Doesn't mean much - but I could probably find an example.
Go over the Mach1registry.org. Do a search for Angus66 and 03AV8R. Those are the quickest stock-internal Mach 1s that I know of. The results may surprise you.
We all have our opinions. Some are more short-sighted, biased, and just plain ignorant than others, but we all have them, none-the-less.
and if its the 4.6...well ive seen a i/e 5spd 3.8 camaro beat an auto one....
a lt1 CANNOT be compared to a 5.0 or a 4.6 sohc pos...thats like comparing a ls1 to a 305tpi
Bring references. I will.
Bob
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06-15-2007, 08:43 AM #42
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06-15-2007, 10:11 AM #43
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Hugger Orange/W stripes- 1999 Z28 M6
I went there. Both failed to list mods in their sig's, other than one does use the bottle for some runs (which doesn't count) and they use slicks. Both claim low 11's, and 03AV8R especially tickles me with the following in-depth info about his mods:
"Bolt-ons, all the good ones"
Yeah, that's informative. His best 60' of 1.474 seconds, and a run of 11.2 on "stock factory motor" were both mesmerizing.
The Mach 1 seems to be capable of a flat 13 second (at best) run with the stock 305 hp rating from most accounts. I happen to like them too, and always have. But I'll leave it to others to determine how much work has to be done to the same car to shave 1.8 seconds off the 1/4 time without power adders or internal work. I'm thinking about 200 hp has to be added, and probably several hundred pounds of weight reduction to make that possible. Maybe with the right gearing, and a car that really hooks, it could lessen those numbers a bit, but we are left wondering without the facts, aren't we?
There might be a few that can do it, but you made it sound like Mach 1's can almost do it without any effort. I differ with you.
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06-15-2007, 12:16 PM #44
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Good job!
There is a 1/4 mile Forum over there that can only be accessed if you are a member. Sorry, I forgot about that. Join if you like, but if you want the short story...
Both absolutely use slicks. Both have significant weight reduction (especially 03AV8R, whose raceweight is less than 3000 lbs). Both have what most folks on the internet call "full bolt-ons", meaning full exhaust, CAI, gears, dyno tune, a good-shifting tranny, etc. Both are likely putting down ~320 RWHP. Bill (Angus66) has gone 11.35. Rodney (03AV8R) has gone 11.28 (11.39 on Hoosier 'street' tires).
Here's a post from Rodney's run on another Forum: http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=921062
Here are Bill's runs: http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=846939
There is so, so much more to ET than just adding HP. That is evidenced by these two. They probably make 60 more flywheel HP than when they were stock, but as said, run almost 2 seconds quicker. The key is putting the power to the ground efficiently, getting the car light, and driving it like you intend to break it as soon as you drop the clutch.
As an FYI, my own car went 11.60 with a bone stock motor from the TB to the oil pan. Like those above, it had exhaust, slicks, gears, etc, but I didn't gut the hell out of it, as it was still my daily driver.
Also, there are plenty of LS1 folks who have done the same thing. None of the M6 "Bolt-on" LS1s have gone as fast as those two Machs, but a handful of A4s have gone faster.
The Mach 1 seems to be capable of a flat 13 second (at best) run with the stock 305 hp rating from most accounts.
But again...please...I'm talking only a stock long block...ie...nothing inside the motor has been touched.
I happen to like them too, and always have. But I'll leave it to others to determine how much work has to be done to the same car to shave 1.8 seconds off the 1/4 time without power adders or internal work.
I'm thinking about 200 hp has to be added, and probably several hundred pounds of weight reduction to make that possible. Maybe with the right gearing, and a car that really hooks, it could lessen those numbers a bit, but we are left wondering without the facts, aren't we?
There might be a few that can do it, but you made it sound like Mach 1's can almost do it without any effort. I differ with you.
Bob
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06-15-2007, 01:04 PM #45
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06-15-2007, 03:54 PM #46
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06-15-2007, 04:00 PM #47
Nice kill. I raced one a while back they are rated at like 300 hp and he was stock so I really didn't have a problem pulling away from him.
Last edited by SAGGIN; 06-16-2007 at 05:24 PM.
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06-18-2007, 03:22 AM #48
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Hugger Orange/W stripes- 1999 Z28 M6
Here is the remark you made:
Depending upon the cams, and assuming you're not porting/shaving the heads, a Mach 1 will probably gain 20-30 HP over the stock cams. The bottleneck is the long-runner intake.
FYI...there are several Mach 1's running deep into the 11s with bone stock long blocks (including stock cams).
In your list of "full bolt ons" you mentioned a good shifting tranny. Now while I agree a tranny is technically a bolt-on, I don't think that is the usual category for such a big mod. Maybe you just meant a better shifter, then okay.
Now as to this:
As an FYI, my own car went 11.60 with a bone stock motor from the TB to the oil pan. Like those above, it had exhaust, slicks, gears, etc, but I didn't gut the hell out of it, as it was still my daily driver.
Do they even make 5.5+ gears?
Please tell me you have a video of that......
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06-18-2007, 04:27 AM #49
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Ok. If I mislead you, it was not intentional.
In your list of "full bolt ons" you mentioned a good shifting tranny. Now while I agree a tranny is technically a bolt-on, I don't think that is the usual category for such a big mod. Maybe you just meant a better shifter, then okay.
Now as to this:
You have a '99 Cobra with a stock long-block that runs 11.6?
Do they even make 5.5+ gears?
Please tell me you have a video of that......
Anything else?
Bob
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06-18-2007, 04:46 AM #50
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06-18-2007, 05:12 AM #51
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BLKCLOUD,
I forgot to add that your run was very impressive. You hooked up very well. It looked like your "competitor" just didn't even bother.
She hooks up, no doubt. Well done. Your stock long-block now makes more sense to me since I researched a bit and see your experience in that class.
Keep up the good runs.
I still say 11-ish Mach 1's in stock long-block form are an exception, not the rule.
As a DD, I couldn't imagine a 4.56 or 4.88 gear with 93 octane at $3.50 a gallon.
YIKES!!!
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06-18-2007, 06:30 AM #52
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Yes: Forwards = Bob. Backwards = Bob.
2) What is the top speed of your car with 4.56's?
3) 4.6 is making how much power and your best guess of weight?
Thank you.
She hooks up, no doubt. Well done. Your stock long-block now makes more sense to me since I researched a bit and see your experience in that class.
That pass on the video was with a bone stock (TB to Oil Pan) 99 Cobra motor. Best I did with the bone stock motor was 11.60. That was in the early fall of 2003 (ran my first 11.9x with that car in summer of 01).
In 2004, I competed in the NMRA's Factory Stock class. Don't let the name fool you though. While the rules were very restrictive, the motors were not "stock". Mine made ~355 RWHP with stock unported heads, stock unported intake, and stock cams (not regrinds). However, the heads had a good valve job, and I had an efficient short block (ie...lower rotating mass, good rings, etc). The car went 11.43 like this on Drag Radials (required for class) at a weight of 3340 lbs. With slicks and without the weight (I carried weight bars in the trunk), I'd like to think I could have gotten a few more tenths out of it.
Keep up the good runs.
I still say 11-ish Mach 1's in stock long-block form are an exception, not the rule.
As a DD, I couldn't imagine a 4.56 or 4.88 gear with 93 octane at $3.50 a gallon.
YIKES!!!
Thanks for reading my disertation.
Bob
PS...did you know that the quickest stock-internal (ie...'bolt-on') LS1 has gone 10s? The quickest are all A4 cars though. Quickest M6 bolt-on car is in the 11.4s.
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06-18-2007, 06:55 AM #53
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06-18-2007, 06:57 AM #54
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Interesting read. Yeah, I know the A4's that are stalled are the better 1/4 F-body cars. In my particular case, I had a friend selling an M6 when my T-bird got totalled. I was quite happy to buy it without shopping around.
I dearly loved that '94 T-bird. An old H.S. buddy bought it off me (I had bought the salvaged car back from Allstate) and it's a DD for his daughter. Still going strong at 150,000.
I had purchased a low mileage 4.6 and 4r70w from a wrecked NCSHP car, but when the wreck happened, there went the plans to build that. I was going to stall it, use a 3.55 in the IRS and change the intake/TB/MAF to a Cobra version with an Allen supercharger kit. I was running 17's and the car was just rock-solid, but needy of more power. It made me realize that a modular has possibilities, but now its just an unrealized dream.
I am definitely not a Ford or Mustang hater, but I really feel like Ford modualrs require F/I to make good "streetable" power. The cars you are talking about ain't my forte.
Here was my last Ford (prior to the wreck of course):
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06-18-2007, 07:11 AM #55
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Certainly the LSx engines make better street power N/A than the Modulars. Truth be told, I prefer the LSx to the Modular, and used to say that my 99 Cobra would have been damn near perfect if it had come from the factory with a live axle and an LS1.
The only real saving grace for the 4.6 4V is its rpm potential, which allows the use of steep gears, thus increasing torque multiplication to the wheels, and allowing them to do pretty well against higher HP cars.
Nice T-bird. Too bad about the wreck.
Bob
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06-18-2007, 08:22 AM #56
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hunter Green- 92 Camaro RS 350 Special
just being retarted here but if ford would bring back the 351 and do something fancy with it like chevy did with the 350/ls1 then that would be a awsome race. buuut im retarted
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06-18-2007, 08:45 AM #57
Well, like you said, that would be retarded lol.
No sense in bringing back an underpowered, inefficienct, heavy old motor that wasn't all that special in the first place.
The Ford Modular motors are the future, they 4V versions are Ford's equivelent to the LS1. If they wanted something bigger than the 5.4 version, they could make performance version of the V10.
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06-18-2007, 09:01 AM #58
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06-18-2007, 09:05 AM #59
smash the gas
Dude, i'm tellin' ya, i have an 01, a4 z28, with 65k and only a flowmaster set up and I've beat the same orange mach 1, 3 different days from several different rolls, there's been a couple of close one's for him, but mostly i've beat him in the same walk off manner, no bullshitin', i don't know if i've got one of those "factory monsters" or not but the old auto maro kills motherfuckers, so i believe it without a doubt. they just have that mach 1 prestige when you hear the title but like most mustangs their bark's louder than the bite!
chevy's fords right in the A!!!!!!
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06-18-2007, 11:23 AM #60Originally Posted by Krazy351w
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