I have to state this (Not bullshit)

**bmyers** · 03-20-2007, 06:39 PM

that trend has not caught on up here yet. but we dont have a big mexican population

**91Z28** · 03-20-2007, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by bmyers

that trend has not caught on up here yet. but we dont have a big mexican population

Give it a couple weeks.

**ATCharming** · 03-20-2007, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by bmyers

what i would give to only see 3 ricers a day, it would give the lining in my throat time to heal.

lol. more like 0 ricers a day. only time i see them is in the drive thru at mcdonalds where i work. i assume most of them dont even live in my town. like i sed, there mightbe 3 ricers in my town!!!

**Goatdriver** · 03-20-2007, 07:07 PM

I have owned several GMC Sierra 1500's, usually trade every 3 years at 50-60,000 miles and have NEVER had a mechanical problem. The only problems I've had with our GM cars and pickups have been with the Onstar computer crapping out on 3 different vehicles. I don't like the look of the new GMC and Chevy pickups so I just bought a 2007 "old style" GMC Sierra last month and it comes with a 5 yr. 100,000 mile powertrain warranty so it looks like I might keep this one a little longer and not have to cough up money for a few years. By the way I think the Toyota and Nissan pickups are UGLY as sin so I won't be buying one of them until the design is changed not to mention their gas mileage SUCKS!!!

**bmyers** · 03-20-2007, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Goatdriver

I have owned several GMC Sierra 1500's, usually trade every 3 years at 50-60,000 miles and have NEVER had a mechanical problem. The only problems I've had with our GM cars and pickups have been with the Onstar computer crapping out on 3 different vehicles. I don't like the look of the new GMC and Chevy pickups so I just bought a 2007 "old style" GMC Sierra last month and it comes with a 5 yr. 100,000 mile powertrain warranty so it looks like I might keep this one a little longer and not have to cough up money for a few years. By the way I think the Toyota and Nissan pickups are UGLY as sin so I won't be buying one of them until the design is changed not to mention their gas mileage SUCKS!!!

my dad had problems with the onstar when he bought a new suburban.

**SLIM_DURST** · 03-21-2007, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Tyler_LS1

i do know that when the first titan came out the 5.6 was not made by nissan.

it was a GM engine.
as of now, im not sure.

but i will only buy GM. quality, reliability and performance cannot be surpassed. IMHO.

+1

however, i don't agree with this BUY USA thing. if we build crap then we need competition to bring us in line

**secondgearscratch** · 03-21-2007, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by SLIM_DURST

+1

however, i don't agree with this BUY USA thing. if we build crap then we need competition to bring us in line

i dont think we build crap, we've just become to arrogant. american car makers got to the point, especially in the 80's when they just assumed that whatever they put out the american public would buy, no matter how shitty the quality. when toyota and honda did things more efficiently and offered a better quality car for the same price, people started buying them. save for a few exceptions , many imports are of good quality if we were all honest. have had a stupid mitsu gsx which was a pile of shit, and i had an 86 4 speed toyota quarter ton truck. it looked like hell but ran regarless of hell or high water. i had an s10 zr2 that ran regardless too. it all depends now. the american car makers have seen a foreign brand stealing their corner of the market and have finally tried to put more money towards quality. the problem is that the u.s. is too busy cheapening american jobs and outsourcing them to cut costs. that screws us as citizens in every way, not just the car industry. whats worst, the foreign companies (as stated earlier in the thread) are investing millions into our counrty and creating jobs for us, forcing us to swallow our pride in favor of a job. american all the way, but quaity is still a big issue. ford and chevy need to get their heads out of their asses. and quick

**astyles** · 03-21-2007, 04:34 PM

the fact is that if g.m. and ford or dodge wanted to keep customers they would not put weak ass 10 bolt rearends in f-bodies,or make disposable cars that dont last the time of your payments...they would step up and compete

**secondgearscratch** · 03-21-2007, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by astyles

the fact is that if g.m. and ford or dodge wanted to keep customers they wouild not put weak ass 10 bolt rearends in f-bodies,or make disposable cars that dont last the time of your payments...they would step up and compete

amen man, fucking amen. and PLUS ONE on the 10 bolt comment. shitty 7 and a halfs......

**Whocares** · 03-22-2007, 05:32 AM

I just want to summarize GM recently:

I ordered an 07 Avalanche to be built this week in Mexico.
I couldnt afford the $4k it costs to get heated leather seats or the $6k for the 6.0L motor.

Lets try to avoid some past mistakes:

SSR failure- not enough power to warrant exclusivity. would have sold a million with a blower sticking out of the hood...
04 GTO styling failure..no LS2 or real tire size..doomed the car...
Solstice - Not enough power or any trunk space. needed a 5.3L
Traiblazer SS - behind the Jeep SRT8..and no reason for it to be
Impala finally gets V8..years too late
H3 with a 5 cylinder...and no other engine option
LS7 engine failures...way too many..GM voiding warranties for simple exhaust modifications and "black box" recorded "abuse"...
No diesels or cheap 6.0Ls for Avalanche, Tahoe and Suburban
New Silverado loses in almost every comparison test to 3yrold Titan and newTundra, no kick butt 6.0L reg cab short bed, no 5 and 6 speed autos
GM is moving jobs out of the USA and Toyota/Honda/Nissan are employing more and more Americans

Lets hope the future is brighter so GM can become a leader. I consider the Vette and F-bodies to be some of the biggest successes...but have little faith the next Camaro will be a success mostly because of expected price...it will be built outside of the USA!

**tonyjnjz** · 03-22-2007, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by Whocares

I just want to summarize GM recently:

I ordered an 07 Avalanche to be built this week in Mexico.
I couldnt afford the $4k it costs to get heated leather seats or the $6k for the 6.0L motor.

Lets try to avoid some past mistakes:

SSR failure- not enough power to warrant exclusivity. would have sold a million with a blower sticking out of the hood...
04 GTO styling failure..no LS2 or real tire size..doomed the car...
Solstice - Not enough power or any trunk space. needed a 5.3L
Traiblazer SS - behind the Jeep SRT8..and no reason for it to be
Impala finally gets V8..years too late
H3 with a 5 cylinder...and no other engine option
LS7 engine failures...way too many..GM voiding warranties for simple exhaust modifications and "black box" recorded "abuse"...
No diesels or cheap 6.0Ls for Avalanche, Tahoe and Suburban
New Silverado loses in almost every comparison test to 3yrold Titan and newTundra, no kick butt 6.0L reg cab short bed, no 5 and 6 speed autos
GM is moving jobs out of the USA and Toyota/Honda/Nissan are employing more and more Americans

Lets hope the future is brighter so GM can become a leader. I consider the Vette and F-bodies to be some of the biggest successes...but have little faith the next Camaro will be a success mostly because of expected price...it will be built outside of the USA!

i didnt know they were having probs with the ls7?? what kind of probs?? and where is the new camaro goin to be built??? i THOUGHT it was supposed to be built in canada near the last fbody plant?

**SSTODD** · 03-22-2007, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Whocares

I just want to summarize GM recently:

I ordered an 07 Avalanche to be built this week in Mexico.
I couldnt afford the $4k it costs to get heated leather seats or the $6k for the 6.0L motor.

Lets try to avoid some past mistakes:

SSR failure- not enough power to warrant exclusivity. would have sold a million with a blower sticking out of the hood...
04 GTO styling failure..no LS2 or real tire size..doomed the car...
Solstice - Not enough power or any trunk space. needed a 5.3L
Traiblazer SS - behind the Jeep SRT8..and no reason for it to be
Impala finally gets V8..years too late
H3 with a 5 cylinder...and no other engine option
LS7 engine failures...way too many..GM voiding warranties for simple exhaust modifications and "black box" recorded "abuse"...
No diesels or cheap 6.0Ls for Avalanche, Tahoe and Suburban
New Silverado loses in almost every comparison test to 3yrold Titan and newTundra, no kick butt 6.0L reg cab short bed, no 5 and 6 speed autos
GM is moving jobs out of the USA and Toyota/Honda/Nissan are employing more and more Americans

Lets hope the future is brighter so GM can become a leader. I consider the Vette and F-bodies to be some of the biggest successes...but have little faith the next Camaro will be a success mostly because of expected price...it will be built outside of the USA!

It is your choice to buy the mexican product, I will not!
The SSR was never a high production vehicle and could never have been because of how and where built.
The GTO was as popular as possible, the only 2-door people buy like zombies is the mustang even when it was an ancient fox body, hence the reason the f-body died.
The solstice is a mini 2-seater, you are not supposed to travel with it and it and the sky are very popular for what they are (outsold the miata).
The Impala is fwd so who cares until the rwd anyway, it is a volume seller.
The Trailblazer is a suv, how many people are racing suv's in this economy?
The Hummer had to have some kind of economy model to survive.
If GM followed the performance only model of ours they would be out of business because all of us will not buy new every year so the initial hit for all performance vehicles dies off and you are left with nothing. With $3 gas and al gore you will be lucky to have a car worth having.

**Whocares** · 03-22-2007, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by tonyjnjz

i didnt know they were having probs with the ls7?? what kind of probs?? and where is the new camaro goin to be built??? i THOUGHT it was supposed to be built in canada near the last fbody plant?

You'd have to have been following the corvette forums...numerous valvetrain and oiling failures. GM replaced alot of engines but they also tried to deny alot of warranties. Someone posted 1 in 12 06Zs had problems...thats way too many. They also had roof delamination and axle failures/recalls/upgrades.

And the camaro will be built in either Australia or Canada...and that aint the USA unless you are George Bush.

**SSTODD** · 03-22-2007, 06:26 AM

Its Canada for the Camaro and Clinton signed nafta, not Bush.

**secondgearscratch** · 03-22-2007, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by Whocares

I just want to summarize GM recently:

I ordered an 07 Avalanche to be built this week in Mexico.
I couldnt afford the $4k it costs to get heated leather seats or the $6k for the 6.0L motor.

Lets try to avoid some past mistakes:

SSR failure- not enough power to warrant exclusivity. would have sold a million with a blower sticking out of the hood...
04 GTO styling failure..no LS2 or real tire size..doomed the car...
Solstice - Not enough power or any trunk space. needed a 5.3L
Traiblazer SS - behind the Jeep SRT8..and no reason for it to be
Impala finally gets V8..years too late
H3 with a 5 cylinder...and no other engine option
LS7 engine failures...way too many..GM voiding warranties for simple exhaust modifications and "black box" recorded "abuse"...
No diesels or cheap 6.0Ls for Avalanche, Tahoe and Suburban
New Silverado loses in almost every comparison test to 3yrold Titan and newTundra, no kick butt 6.0L reg cab short bed, no 5 and 6 speed autos
GM is moving jobs out of the USA and Toyota/Honda/Nissan are employing more and more Americans

Lets hope the future is brighter so GM can become a leader. I consider the Vette and F-bodies to be some of the biggest successes...but have little faith the next Camaro will be a success mostly because of expected price...it will be built outside of the USA!

i agree to an extent except for a few things. the ssr as stated by someone else was not going to be a hit, and gm had to know this. it was as impractical as anything ever made if you put it in an suv class it would be pointless. but its not like the vette is practical for anything other than a suitcase and going fast. i agree that diesels should be mad available in the suv's, but you have to look at whos buying the majority of suvs in the market, and since the majority is (probably) using it as a family transporter, there is the ewww its a diesel thing. stupid, but i have rarely seen any soccer moms rolling up in a detriot diesel. the trailblazer ss fails because stupid gm decided that even though the newer 6 speed auto with the right gearing would catapult the ss into glory, they being the senile fucks they sometimes are decided to go with the ol 4 speed. so youre right on about that. +1 on everything else. but the solstice needs exactly what it has....the gxp version to grab sales that the s2000 and maybe the 350z are getting. and yep to the foriegners investing in america. its all pretty pathetic really.........the day the tundra outpower and outaccelerates the silverado is the day is the day i wonder if GM has ANY balls.....and that was last thursday.

**my5thNewUsernameHere** · 03-22-2007, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by secondgearscratch

ford and chevy need to get their heads out of their asses. and quick

Not going to be easy with the unions weighing them down. This concept should have disappeared a hundred years ago when the industrial revolution was past its prime.

**secondgearscratch** · 03-22-2007, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by my5thNewUsernameHere

Not going to be easy with the unions weighing them down. This concept should have disappeared a hundred years ago when the industrial revolution was past its prime.

the unions arent a bad deal in theory, but after years and years of companies trying to screw them some of them are just ungodly. the fact is that companies want to cut costs and increase profit. they dont give a shit about who makes them the money (workers). im not totally in favor, just not totally against. and you have to look at the companies that refuse unions also. take for instance, Wal Mart. if a union came in wally would be forced to renegotiate salaries and hours and benefits and adjust their overall attitude towards their employees. that would cost them money, so they said fuck it. pathetic.....

**gwballin** · 03-22-2007, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by secondgearscratch

and you have to look at the companies that refuse unions also. take for instance, Wal Mart. if a union came in wally would be forced to renegotiate salaries and hours and benefits and adjust their overall attitude towards their employees. that would cost them money, so they said fuck it. pathetic.....

Every time Wal Mart hires a new employee they negotiate salary, hours and benefits. If Wal Mart and a prospective employee can't come to terms then each go their separate ways. Every employee you see working at Wal Mart conducted their own negotiation and accepted the mutually beneficial terms, otherwise they would not have accepted the offer.

**02blkws6** · 03-22-2007, 11:51 PM

I have my veiws on such subjects and I refuse to say anything to piss off or undermine another union employee. The US automakers have many more retirees than the foreign automakers. This is a major expense. The automakers put pressure on dealerships to cut down on warranty work. We have an '07 Suburban for a company vehicle where I work. We've had it since Jan and it has 10k miles. The check engine light is on and there have been a couple other problems. I say that there is a maintenance problem where I work.

**SSTODD** · 03-23-2007, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by secondgearscratch

the unions arent a bad deal in theory, but after years and years of companies trying to screw them some of them are just ungodly. the fact is that companies want to cut costs and increase profit. they dont give a shit about who makes them the money (workers). im not totally in favor, just not totally against. and you have to look at the companies that refuse unions also. take for instance, Wal Mart. if a union came in wally would be forced to renegotiate salaries and hours and benefits and adjust their overall attitude towards their employees. that would cost them money, so they said fuck it. pathetic.....

This is why every "foreign car" is down south where the unions cannot get to them yet. They have no where near the retirement packages that our american companies give to their workers. They also are moving to mexico where it is easier to make profit which is what the foreign makers live for also, it is a business and it is all about profit.