-Settle something once and for all-

pyro71985 · 08-30-2006, 10:15 PM

Ok im getting mixed answers about nitrous...some people tell me it completely destroys your motor while people on here swear by it. If used with all the safety equipment can you motor be harmed?

Can you guys tell me how long you have been using nitrous on your car, especially if its stock, being as mine is stock.

Also if anyone has any "horror stories" can you please share them.

Also if it matters im only going to be using nitrous on the street and maybe every now and then at the track.

**Sarge** · 08-31-2006, 02:34 AM

Listen...I have seen many a internet forum "debate" turn into absolute flame wars over this very subject...let me try to project my thoughts in a rational manner....
Stock engines are built to very precise specs...the specs include very specific parameters as they pertain to RPM/A/F/Combustion Chamber load etc. Rods/Rod Bolts/Piston Wall Thickness/Rings etc. are all built to "pass" stock engine parameter requirments for 100K miles or so. The bean counters in the automotive world have fine tuned these engine material or componenet specs to just squeeze by the aforementioned life expectancy....so....even stock...your motor is built to last about 100K even running bone stock....before something lets loose......now enter young gearhead wanting to go fast

These fella's throw on turbo's and blowers or stick a bottle of giggle juice into the trunk....now we are introducing a power adder that clearly exceeds the engine manufacturers components specs....so one could easily deduce by adding these power adders you are significantly shortening the life expectancy of the various built to stock specs engine componenets. More cylinder pressure stresses all the components.....It is a undeniable fact. Yes I hear all the time...150 shot of nitrous wont hurt anything....and what they should say is a 150 shot of nitrous will eat your engine at a slower pace than a 200 shot .....the confusion often times comes from the argument being introduced that an improper install or tune led to the demise of a engine and yes that is very true....however...even if you have every safety componenet in the world and Allen Nelson himself tunes your car.....it will still cause early death to a stock engine....maybe 50 runs...maybe 250 runs.....but a power adder stock motor will not live as long as a stock motor....quite simple really

I ran nitrous on my built LS1 in the 04 GTO...it had every safety componenet and a pro custom tune...Probably about the 50th nitrous run ( I never exceeded a 150 shot) this is what we got ...and it was to be expected...

**juiced99ws6** · 08-31-2006, 05:33 AM

very good explanation as usual sarge.. I have been running nitrous for quite some time in my trans am and have had no issues. I make sure to service my engine more frequently and have all the safety precautions as well. it is my belief that a well tuned car that is only an occasional strip car would benefit greatly from nitrous since the added stress is only there when you hit your bottle versus a turbo/ supercharger which will constantly work your engine a little harder but I think the answer you are looking for is that nitrous is no more lethal to your engine than any other performance mod. increased performance will always decrease engine life but on a positve note the lsx series is a very strong built engine.

pyro71985 · 08-31-2006, 12:08 PM

yeah my biggest question was how safe is it compared to that of a turbo, im still debating which way i want to go. I want my car to be AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE, and as long last as possible as well. That is exactly what i was thinking your only increasing cylinder pressure when you are using it, but then again thats the same with a turbo correct?

**Z28er** · 08-31-2006, 02:57 PM

This could go on forever...save $5k and get a NX wet kit...I was scared as hell to try it...but now that all the safety features are on the car, it is not that scary at all...really the opposite....it is fun as hell when your bottle is full.

The greatest part about nitrous is you can have a daily driver like me and at the flick of a switch be able to pull the guy next to you who thinks he's faster! 150 HP on demand is pretty sweet!! You could get your bottle filled 150 times before you start losing money versus intalling a blower or turbo.

If my budget was big, maybe go with the blower or turbo, but there is no better bang for the buck than an NX system. It runs great and it's a lot of fun knowing your running the juice.

No doubt, it prob will eventually blow the motor up, but that is so far in the future just look frwd to a rebuild to a 383 strocker or 427...that is when I will spend the $5k.

Rich

**Eugenio_SS** · 08-31-2006, 03:14 PM

i'm sorry to hear about your misfortune, Sarge.
do you know what went wrong to cause that dammage ?
I agree w/ Sarge... something has to go wrong to get dammage and it can come from many sources. Heck, even stock engines fail sometimes due to something going wrong... any of those factors can happen.
By adding the nitrous, you're adding potential failure points as well... that's where the safety comes in place to minimise the risk.
Having said that, it's safe to say that you can run lots of runs on nitrous with a stock engine, provided you don't go too crazy (meaning shot and RPM window)
Remember, what you're doing is adding more air (cold one) and more fuel to get more power... you're increasing the pressure in the combustion chamber and you have to make sure you don't lack fuel, which could still happen even with all the safety, yet the odds of it happening are quite slim.
In racing, shit happens, but there is a smart way of doing things... having said that, it's rare to have issues w/ nitrous if played with reasonable ranges/safety.

**Eugenio_SS** · 08-31-2006, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by pyro71985

yeah my biggest question was how safe is it compared to that of a turbo, im still debating which way i want to go. I want my car to be AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE, and as long last as possible as well. That is exactly what i was thinking your only increasing cylinder pressure when you are using it, but then again thats the same with a turbo correct?

turbo is way more expensive initially, but then nitrous gets $ in the long run.
turbo is tougher to install/tune... it's a continuous tuning process.
then you go with boost control... until you start getting into octane limitations, fuel delivery limitations. If you seriously are considering turbo, then getting a motor refresh w/ new low-comp pistons would be ideal without costing you too much... then again, the same can be done for a nitrous setup and increase your safety margin by a lot.

Before you buy anything, make sure you are taking the decision that will make you happy in the long run.

**juiced99ws6** · 08-31-2006, 05:08 PM

I don't understand something here bro. If you can scrape the money together for a turbo/ supercharger then why not go the SAFEST route and forge your bottom end get a cam and then spray.. that would be the best route in my opinion

pyro71985 · 08-31-2006, 05:54 PM

LoL i didnt say i have the money to buy a turbo or s/c it will take a year or so to get that all done, but nitrous i could have next week.

**02 WS6 TA** · 08-31-2006, 06:45 PM

I won't dig thru the replies or pick them apart. We've had a 150 wet NX Gemini Twin MAF shot on the Z for 25K miles. Zero problems, oil analysis confirms it. The enemy with N2O(and any power adder) is detonation and fuel starvation. Adequate fuel and carefully monitored timing adjustment is the key. Nitrous is GOOD, just not as cheap as you may think. A well tuned system costs more than the initial investment of a Kit, and there's where troubles begin.

**Danger731** · 08-31-2006, 06:50 PM

Just do the safety features, if I may say and tell me if I'm wrong, there is more to Sarge's story.

**Sarge** · 09-01-2006, 02:25 AM

Well the engine was so totally trashed it was difficult to autospy the dad gum thing....two pistons shattered ( 5 and 7) valves trashed.......# 5 rod through the block...#7 rod bent and rod bolts snapped.....
But Allen and I believe after much debate....what happened was the valve clearance was off...allowing the valvles to "kiss" the pistons....I could see where the valves had just been touching the tops of the pistons....eventually the valve in #5 broke....#5 swallowed the valve and led to the events of the day

Side note....Nelson had nothing to do with the tuning or build of that motor....I also strongly suspect the A/F from the dyno was bullshit and we were lean as hell.....Of course with the new 402....Allen was deadly with valve clearance and deck specs....we tuned it with a AEM A/F and verified it with the tail pipe A/F....and I run a A/F guage in the center console now

So yes...and absoilutely...Nitrous did not cause the early demise of the LS1.....Shitty engine build and tuning did...Bottom line is I took every precaution as I stated earlier...and still got burnt

Oh well....change engine builders and tuners and keep going faster....

**ls1marine** · 09-02-2006, 12:25 AM

dude stop trying to be so safe man........its either GO OR BLOW

**Sarge** · 09-02-2006, 08:19 AM

"safe"= fast

**cguth** · 09-15-2006, 09:07 AM

i ran a 175 shot for two years, changing plugs after every two bottles. never had a problem

**5letr** · 10-09-2006, 04:45 PM

I ran 30 -35 15lb bottles over a year or so spraying a 125 dry shot with 0 problems.

**anti-social** · 10-12-2006, 06:24 PM

Im sprayin a 100 shot curently and im not going any higher on my stock engine. You definitly need a window switch, plugs, & be positive that your fuel system can deliver the extra fuel. I guess you can say FI will be a little safer, but F-that for 6K+ for a system.....I would rather buy a forged long block! Do your reserch on what causes N2O damage.

**bluethunder2** · 10-13-2006, 07:24 AM

Ran a 125 dry shot for 2 yrs, no problems, then stepped up to a 150 wet for about a year without any problems. I was at the track about once a month and played on the street. I took that motor out with 57,000 miles on it, and it looked good. No signs of damage or wear. Now, I'm running an 11.5:1 compression motor, stock rotating assy ( except ARP studs throughout) and a 150 wet kit. Have about 25 runs on the bottle (dyno, street, track) and don't have any problems so far.

**LS2Tuner** · 10-15-2006, 08:58 PM

I have 82 bottles on a old tired standard bore motor now without even a nipping a plug!!!! It's all about having a good fuel system and knowing what your doing with the timing!!!!

If it has "cast" pistons I have found I can safely get away with 175hp shot for at least a year........AS LONG AS IT'S NOT SUCKING ANY OIL!!!! Oil contamination causes detonation!!!! Even if your running C-116 octane fuel!!!!
If it has stock forged pistons you can get away with 250hp for years as long as you can get the tune right!!!

REMEMBER JUST BECAUSE YOU PUT A "BIG" FUEL PUMP DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE A GOOD FUEL SYSTEM!!!! STOCK BULLSHIT 5/16" FUEL LINE CAN ONLY FLOW SO MUCH........DOESN'T MATTER HOW MUCH PUMP YOU PUT IN FRONT OF IT.....IT WILL ONLY FLOW SO MUCH VOLUME!!!!!!
That's my 2 cents......I've only been fucking with Nitrous since 92...............