2 more kills for the SS

**shua01ss** · 06-08-2006, 05:58 PM

The other day I was just out cruising around with a buddy of mine when we came across a brand new Subaru STI. So far as I could tell he only had an exhuast, the guy was pretty cool as we talked while we were in traffic. When we were finally able to line up at a stop light, between us pulls up a newer Mercedes SL500. Light turns green and all 3 of hit it. I took a quick jump on both and kept pulling on them up to about 80. Guy in the benz just took off but the guy in the STI gave me a thumbs up and he even had his girl in the car when he got beat so that was cool. Best part though was when we lined up my buddy is like "I dont know if you can take that STI" then he says he would put his money on the STI. I made him eat those words and then buy me lunch at Hooters.

**ss~zoso~ss** · 06-09-2006, 05:29 AM

lol, thats what my friend had said about a Turbo GTI and a Civic Hatch. lol, thats why i never romp on my car with friends in it

**toneloc60** · 06-09-2006, 05:38 AM

Good kills. I honestly thought the STIs would be more of a challenge than they are.

**ss~zoso~ss** · 06-09-2006, 08:31 AM

they are if the driver can drive

**Street Lethal** · 06-09-2006, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by toneloc60

Good kills. I honestly thought the STIs would be more of a challenge than they are.

Couldn't agree with you more. They're all hype as far as I'm concerned. You get the same excuses over and over as well, to boot, "owner prolly didn't know how to launch, might not have been tuned right, guy was running the stock turbo...".

Be the first to admit that they launch well (when launched well), but other than that, I see no real threat. In my opinion, the only Imports to really be feared are the ones than employ either the 2JZ, or the RB26...

**Marc87GN** · 06-09-2006, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

Couldn't agree with you more. They're all hype as far as I'm concerned. You get the same excuses over and over as well, to boot, "owner prolly didn't know how to launch, might not have been tuned right, guy was running the stock turbo...".

Be the first to admit that they launch well (when launched well), but other than that, I see no real threat. In my opinion, the only Imports to really be feared are the ones than employ either the 2JZ, or the RB26...

Stock, I agree with you. With the aftermarket GT turbos on the market, with a turbo upgrade, they are a real threat and so are the EVOs. Factory turbo cars are always a threat when new & more efficient turbos are released.

**Street Lethal** · 06-09-2006, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Marc87GN

Stock, I agree with you. With the aftermarket GT turbos on the market, with a turbo upgrade, they are a real threat and so are the EVOs. Factory turbo cars are always a threat when new & more efficient turbos are released.

Definitely agree w/you there in reference to boost. But I was honestly referring to it's AWD system. Don't get me wrong, killer 60'fts with minimal effort... but other than that, seriously over-rated in my opinion. Mainly agreed with ToneLoc60 because of their hype that I kept hearing about before-hand. But once I started running into them on the street though, that's when all the excuses mentioned above started to flow.

Boost is definitely to be feared. Preston Smith's 85' 305 Iroc, w/turbo (running low 9's, daily driven), is a good example of that. Supra's and Skyline's earned their respect, but I just can't seem to understand the hold that the STI/EVO has on it's enthusiast. I'm not saying that their bad cars, I just "don't believe the hype". - (Insert Flavor Flav's voice).

**89redrs** · 06-09-2006, 06:40 PM

[/QUOTE]Boost is definitely to be feared. Preston Smith's 85' 305 Iroc, w/turbo (running low 9's, daily driven), is a good example of that.[/QUOTE]
Could you possibly give a link or more info on his car?

**Street Lethal** · 06-09-2006, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by 89redrs

Could you possibly give a link or more info on his car?

Here's when he was running just the S/C;

"Kinetic Engineering"

... "Tucked in among the 200 or so cars that make the pilgrimage to Mac's Ice Cream every Sunday night in Tewksbury Massachusetts, there's litte about Preston Smith's 1985 IROC to distinguish it in a sea of low-key cruisers. Sure, its wearing high-tech rims and skins, but for a generation of enthusiasts no longer able to save its nickels and dimes for 409's, replacing the forgettable factory wheels and tires is usually the first swap made in the pursuit of performance... even though most will never realize the potential of the speed-rated rubber. To Smith's credit, the Camaro's external alterations do extend beyond the rolling stock, but under the color-robbing glare of florescent street lights, the painstakingly applied Sikkens Brilliant Red Metallic is muted down to a dull burgandy not unlike a factory tone.

For all intents, the car assumes the identity of a well-maintained stocker. Even when Preston idles away, there's little to hint of more than emasculated factory power; in 1985, Detroit was on the cusp of a performance renaissance, but power was still all bells and whistles and mirrors, trick decals and hot exhaust notes. Its tough to sell a performance image when, as Smith's IROC illustrates, the top power source is an anemic 305cid small block.

Its tougher still to build a respectable street machine from such limited resources without abandoning the car's factory roots. As the crowd at Mac's intimates by its warm reception when the IROC eases onto the lot, though, Preston managed to do just that. In fact, during the past four years, he's pieced together and improved upon what may very well be the fastest 305-powered street IROC in the country, as evidenced by a growing number of 10-second time slips. On D.O.T. street tires. Through the mufflers.

As Preston pointed out, the IROC's displacement wasn't an issue, but like most horsepower-hungry consumers, he was stymied by Chevrolet's seeming inability to pull horsepower out of diminutive engine blocks. "My original intent was to build an American car with a small, limited-displacement block that could be the cornerstone to a real street driven performance car. You see imported exotics doing it all the time, it bothered me that we couldn't do the same thing here".

To see what the stocker was really capeable of, Smith first revamped the original suspension. The front underpinnings were adjusted for negative camber alignment with a 1/8-inch toe-in, then Preston started replacing parts out back. The stock torque arm was swapped for a fully boxed unit and lower rear links, along with a tubular panhard rod. and progressive-wound springs. All bushings front and back were replaced with polyurethane parts, and stock shocks were trashed in favor of adjustable Koni oscillators. Global West tubular subframe connectors tie the car together. The rear brakes were also swapped for 12-3/16-inch Wilwood discs.

Now that the car was capeable of pushing the envelope on its less-than-steller potential, Preston began to up the ante under the hood. Electing to stay with the high-tech electronic fuel injection, he weighed his options and decided that the best way to meet his goals without sacrificing the car's street-driven capability or gas mileage was with a supercharger. "That way, I wouldn't have to put in a large overlap cam or higher compression". Rather than bust down the original, Preston bolted together a 1990-vintage 305 with splayed four-bolt mains while he continued to drive the IROC. The improved block was fitted with a forged crank, J.E. .030-inch-over hypereutectic pistons (with the tops ceramic-coated by Swain). Mechart stainless steel boxed rods and a Lingenfelter 272 hydraulic roller cam.

Cognizant of the need for the 305 to breathe, Smith topped the block with Air Flow Research Stage One street aluminum heads equipped with stainless steel roller rocker arms and big ceramic-coated valves. They're tied together by Arizona Speed Marine oversize runners connected to an Extrude-honed manifold base; the upper plenum has been ported and matched to the runners. An ASM 52mm throttle body with airfoil (flowing 750 cfm) and Bosch injectors (30 lb/hr) round out the induction.

Oh, yes, there's the matter of that Vortech supercharger - and the 16 pounds of boost Preston has dialed into it. Recognizing the potential side effects of such a highly squeezed intake charge, Smith fabricated a custom air-to-liquid intercooler with its own pump and radiator system; subsequent track testing revealed the intercooler was good for about 35 horsepower. Preston reins in the supercharger with an MSD boost retard; an MSD 6AL two-step spark intensifier is also employed, along with the stock (albeit indexed) distributor and Moroso heli-wound plug wires. An ACCEL power processor helps out the on-board computer system. The estimated power is approximately 550 hp at the flywheel.

That kind of power will cripple a stock driveline in short order, so the stock automatic was replaced with a 700-R4 modified by CJM Racing Transmissions utilizing B&M internals and an Art Carr 10-inch, 2500rpm stall-speed non-lockup torque converter. It all ties into a 3.54:1-geared Dana 44 which, even equipped with Moser axles, became the car's Achille's heel.

"At New England Dragway last summer, I jumped down into the low-1.5 second 60-foot times", Preston recollected. "Normally, that isn't a problem, but with a 3500-pound car, it is. I popped the spider gears inside the housing because the axle tubes were flexing. We're in the process of fitting the car with a nine-inch differential with 3.70 gears and a Detroit Locker and 35-spline axles. I even had to brace the back of the housing!".

Smith also intends to send the entire intake system-air plenum, runners, lower intake manifold and cylinder heads - to Extrude-Hone, where the whole package will be port-matched. "It should be good for about 20 hp" Preston noted. "It doesn't sound like much, but on this kind of car you can't achieve big power gains in a single step. All the easy things have already been done". The extra ponies should be enough to drop the 3745-pound (with driver) machine well into the 10-second time zone. It's already turned in a best of 10.975 on D.O.T.-approved 275/60-15 M&H tires; changing to slicks has lowered the times to 10.86, although the speed drops off a bit (125.3 versus 126.7 mph) "because the D.O.T. tires are more flexible, and tend to 'grow' a bit more at the top end...."

...."I did test it once at the track without changing anything", he pointed out. "With a full tank of gas, it weighed in at just under 3850 pounds. It still turned 11.7 seconds on the 255/50-16ZR Bridgestone RE-71 tires, although I did have to retard it way back for the street gas".

Setting the car up for the track is a simple operation; Preston removes the front sway bar, sets the adjustable front shocks to "full soft", and adds a pair of 1-1/2 inch spacers to each rear spring to keep the Camaro from squatting under acceleration. The car runs a full exhaust - from Hedman 1-5/8-inch primary tube headers and Burns 2-1/2-inch merge collectors to dual 2-1/2-inch exhaust pipes and Sonic Turbo mufflers - at all times.

It also runs cruise control and a 150-watt Fosgate "punch system" stereo, attesting to its street nature. "Thats what really attracts attention", Preston admits. "This is the most streetable fast car most people have ever seen - they look in back and see those big 12-inch woofers and can't believe that it goes as fast as it does at the track in essentially the same trim. I get 10 seconds in the quarter mile - and 17 miles per gallon out on the highway". - Super Chevy March'94

Edit: Didn't mean to derail the thread, but I thought it would be a good read for everyone nonetheless...

**Street Lethal** · 06-09-2006, 07:20 PM

These are current, now running a Turbo;

**twozs** · 06-10-2006, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Marc87GN

Stock, I agree with you. With the aftermarket GT turbos on the market, with a turbo upgrade, they are a real threat and so are the EVOs. Factory turbo cars are always a threat when new & more efficient turbos are released.

so is any car you sink a lot of money into!

**EVO8 driver** · 06-10-2006, 08:08 AM

http://media.ams-evo8.com/videos/amsevo/AMS988.wmv http://media.ams-evo8.com/videos/amsevo/AMS988.wmv
The supras and the skyline are old news and outdated. The evo and sti are the new big thing in the import world. The evo in the vid is the current fastest evo and strongest with no nos needed.

**Street Lethal** · 06-10-2006, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by EVO8 driver

http://media.ams-evo8.com/videos/amsevo/AMS988.wmv http://media.ams-evo8.com/videos/amsevo/AMS988.wmv

My computer is crapping out on me, won't download. Please explain what am I supposed to be seeing from these links, so that I may attempt a response...

**EVO8 driver** · 06-10-2006, 08:23 AM

Its a vid of the ams evo8 on a dyno being tuned. It just made a new record for highest whp on the evo. There are a couple evo owners that caught up to 900whp. But ams had to come back and stomp them. They ran 9's with their old power. They have just finished their new turbo setup and are aiming at 8's.

**Street Lethal** · 06-10-2006, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by EVO8 driver

Its a vid of the ams evo8 on a dyno being tuned. It just made a new record for highest whp on the evo. There are a couple evo owners that caught up to 900whp. But ams had to come back and stomp them. They ran 9's with their old power. They have just finished their new turbo setup and are aiming at 8's.

EVO8, let me explain something to you. This is exactly why I stated that I wasn't too impressed with them in the first place. The LSx engine can make significantly less horsepower at the rear wheels, yet run faster times at the track. I can link some video's too, to embellish on my point;

Like this one!

Dyno numbers are merely pissing matches for people who have nothing better to do with their time, as far as I'm concerned. Again, as already stated above, I have nothing against the EVO/STI, I just don't think it's all that.

Thanks for you're time.

**mrr23** · 06-10-2006, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

These are current, now running a Turbo;

you need to put the holley stealthram on it. i put it on my 86TA back when i had it. over siamesed SLP runners and edelbrock based, i picked up in the upper rpms a considerable amount NA with LT1 cam. here's the dyno with no tune.

write up i did on it. http://stealthram.com/dynoresults.html

**EE1983** · 06-10-2006, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Street Lethal

EVO8, let me explain something to you. This is exactly why I stated that I wasn't too impressed with them in the first place. The LSx engine can make significantly less horsepower at the rear wheels, yet run faster times at the track. I can link some video's too, to embellish on my point;

Like this one!

Dyno numbers are merely pissing matches for people who have nothing better to do with their time, as far as I'm concerned. Again, as already stated above, I have nothing against the EVO/STI, I just don't think it's all that.

Thanks for you're time.

Certainly no denying that. RWD combined with massive torque will definitely produce the faster times. Sometimes I wish the EVO was RWD.

Of course, drag racing is NOT what the EVO is meant for... its something it can do well in but definitely not the best.

**Jason05GTO** · 06-10-2006, 01:34 PM

You are right, all wheel drive is not meant to drag with. But the EVO I went up against couldnt get away from me and he had his modded while mine was stock. I think I got the better deal tho, $29k for a 400hp RWD car that is easily modded vs a $35k plus 300hp car that when modded is as fast as mine.

**EE1983** · 06-10-2006, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Jason05GTO

You are right, all wheel drive is not meant to drag with. But the EVO I went up against couldnt get away from me and he had his modded while mine was stock. I think I got the better deal tho, $29k for a 400hp RWD car that is easily modded vs a $35k plus 300hp car that when modded is as fast as mine.

Better deal depends what youre looking for, and EVOs can cost NEW from 28 to 35, depending on options and model. (All models are same HP though).

When modded isnt as fast as yours? Well depends how modded. Exhaust and flash.. no. Cams, exhaust and flash would walk on you stock. I dont like to do the comparo though since they are quite opposites really.

**EVO8 driver** · 06-10-2006, 05:06 PM

For straight line racing yeah. The LS2 gto is a better deal. I thought about getting the gto for straight line purposes. But i have not felt the full potential of my evo yet. A new exedy clutch that can handle loads of torque is going in tomorow.