biggest cam for stock stall?

**bpopham22** · 01-18-2011, 01:53 AM

I know i know i know,im not anti stall converter but i dont feel like spending the extra grand right now on a higher stall. I would rather wait till i replace my tranny with a built one that can handle those kinds of launches. nothing crazy, Ive read up on the ls6 cam but ive also seen CheaTR cams? I dont care about the sound of it i just want a lil more power. I will be purchasing some TSP ls6 stage 1.0 heads soon and i want basically anything i can bolt on to give me a hp gain. Im going to try to get a ported fast 92 intake before they sell out. I know that the driveability of the cam is all in the tune but i want realistic opinions.

**garygnu65** · 01-19-2011, 03:41 AM

if you shop around you can get a stall converter for $700+ shipping.you mite get away with using a TSP 220 cam at 114 lsa.

**allbaugh_04** · 01-19-2011, 06:21 AM

I did the stall before the cam, but it sounds like you've made up your mind.

**Bo's 98 Ta** · 01-19-2011, 06:57 AM

Don't go any bigger than a tr224, I had the tr224 with no stall for a while and it did fine.

**Firebirdjones** · 01-19-2011, 07:42 AM

You'll want something that idles baby butt smooth. Otherwise you wind up with a car that wants to drive through the brakes while stopped, struggles to idle, piss poor vacuum, etc....

If you are looking for a cam that makes sound, you'll need the converter first, otherwise you'll have a car that you're not very happy with.

With that said I'd either stick with an LS6 cam, or spread the lobe sep out pretty far,,,more than likely higher than 114 if you get into cams of 224 at .050 or more.
The cheater cams that I see listed nowadays, are vastly different from the sleeper cams you used to see a few years ago.
The cheater cams are designed to work with stock exhaust manifolds, not necessarily stock stalls though. They are ground to favor the exhaust side heavily to compensate for the restrictive exhaust manifolds, assuming that if you are trying to be sneaky, the visual appearance also has to remain stock to pull that scenario off.

**bpopham22** · 01-19-2011, 08:35 PM

Not looking for a rough idle. An ls6 cam was my first choice but is there anything a tiny bit more aggressive? Maybe a custom grind ls6 clone? Not trying to be sneaky either,full exhaust,lowered on black c6 rims. Gonna order tsp stage 1.0 ls6 heads soon and just want a lil more balls. Nor your average bolt on but not over the top drag car either.

**Firebirdjones** · 01-20-2011, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by bpopham22

Not looking for a rough idle. An ls6 cam was my first choice but is there anything a tiny bit more aggressive? Maybe a custom grind ls6 clone? Not trying to be sneaky either,full exhaust,lowered on black c6 rims. Gonna order tsp stage 1.0 ls6 heads soon and just want a lil more balls. Nor your average bolt on but not over the top drag car either.

What I'm running I guess you could call a custom LS6 clone.

LS6

207/218 at .050 duration
.551/.551 lift all on a 117 lsa. I've never seen any mention of ICL on this cam so I have no idea if it has any advance.

Mine is ground by Crane to Vinci's specs.

210/218 at .050 duration
.551/.551 lift on a 112 lsa. I believe it has an ICL of 110 but I'd have to check to be sure. I also believe it has a faster ramp profile.

It has an ever so slight chop at idle, I've bumped the idle up to 800 which is almost to the point of a non existent choppy idle. Great daily driver for my wife, plenty of power to 6500 (and what seems to be beyond) and still knocks down 21-22 city and has gotten 30 highway. This is behind a 6 speed.

If I had this cam in front of an auto I'd probably still want a looser stall converter, or possibly grind it on a 114 with more advance,,,say 110 ICL with a stock converter.

**bpopham22** · 01-20-2011, 11:46 PM

ok cam noob here school me please. LSA lobe separation angle... has to do with smoother idle? ramp profile.....does that have to do with the power band? And no idea what an ICL is. I have no problem going with a stock ls6 cam, the only problem i have is do i want to spend 1300 on heads,1500 on an intake an TB,400 for a cam, and then around 1400 for the install,not including 500 bux for the oil pump and timing chain. Because im about to pay for a shop to install all my suspension parts once my income tax arrives, and i dont have the time to do it myself i work way too damn much. Id rather pay to have it done while im at work than spend the weekend chipping away at it.

**0rion** · 01-21-2011, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by bpopham22

ok cam noob here school me please. LSA lobe separation angle... has to do with smoother idle? ramp profile.....does that have to do with the power band? And no idea what an ICL is. I have no problem going with a stock ls6 cam, the only problem i have is do i want to spend 1300 on heads,1500 on an intake an TB,400 for a cam, and then around 1400 for the install,not including 500 bux for the oil pump and timing chain. Because im about to pay for a shop to install all my suspension parts once my income tax arrives, and i dont have the time to do it myself i work way too damn much. Id rather pay to have it done while im at work than spend the weekend chipping away at it.

here's some good info to get your familiar with cams and what the different measurements mean:
Cams explained

You will most likely get 100 different opinions if you ask 100 different people but I'll tell you what I would do. Suck it up and get the stall first....here's why. For any decent cam you're gonna want a nice stall.....car will run like ass if you don't have one. Dollar for dollar you can't beat the gains of a stall. I'm guessing by the price you're wanting a fast intake/nick williams TB. No reason to put that on an LS6 cam IMO. You can spend $300 or less for a used LS6 intake and be just fine....there's the dollars for your stall. Down the road chances are ou can re-sell that intake and not be out a dime and then get the fast.
I may have missed your current mods but to do a cam you're gonna want headers so factor that money in there also. I just think at the end of the day you're gonna drop an ass load of money into the car and really wish you would've went bigger on the cam and the only way to go bigger on the cam is stall it. Lastly, and probably the most important, don't forget to factor in the price of a tune.....~$500. None of the mods mean anything if the car isn't tuned to take advantage of them.
That $1200 install price starts looking less and less appealing when you start adding the price of parts up don't it?

I did mine myself over a weekend working on it at night when I got home from work because I wanted to use that install money on more parts.

For the price of the install you can have TSP heads just to put it in perspective. Remember, this is just one persons opinion so take it as such. Whatever you do good luck.

**bpopham22** · 01-21-2011, 01:24 AM

Well heres the thing,I've been stockpiling parts for almost a yr,I've got my longtubes in the box still,I want everything to go on at once so its a huge difference. When everything is on ill have a full rear suspension,full exhaust,lid, and I'm debating if I want h/c/I/ installed,to me 15 rwhp from just a cam is worth it as long as I add heads and an intake,that's like a total of 50 rwhp I can gain. Like I said b4,not your average bolt on car,not an all out drag machine either

**allbaugh_04** · 01-21-2011, 04:36 AM

How often do you drive the car, every day?

**bpopham22** · 01-21-2011, 09:50 AM

Mainly on weekends,only because I have a company vehicle.

**0rion** · 01-21-2011, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by bpopham22

Mainly on weekends,only because I have a company vehicle.

not a daily driver?? Dude....go big or go home.

**rc74racer** · 01-21-2011, 12:50 PM

If you're not anti stall do it now. I'd put a stall in before heads and cam for sure. This way you can go a little bigger on the cam since it's not your DD. In an auto the stall is one of the biggest bang for the buck mods you can do. You're tranny will take it you're not throwing that much HP at it. If you are deadset against it makes some calls spend a little extra money to get a custom grind cam for your application that will behave the way you want. Everyone has a personal opinion on cams but you have to live with it.

**sjsingle1** · 01-21-2011, 01:38 PM

i thought that the LS6 cam was a little outdated..........no?

**allbaugh_04** · 01-21-2011, 03:04 PM

Ls6 cam is a waste of time

**WICKEDLS1** · 01-21-2011, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by allbaugh_04

Ls6 cam is a waste of time

IMO like stated above GO BIG OR GO HOME!!!!

especially since its not a daily driver

**Firebirdjones** · 01-22-2011, 09:35 AM

The LS6 cam is a decent piece for a mild street car. There are some that don't want a rough idle, less mileage, or need to pass emissions without issues or fancy tuning.
They seem to make decent power in the LS6 crate engines, Frost reports 400+ RWHP on his dyno. I'd say it's not all that shabby.

**WICKEDLS1** · 01-22-2011, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

The LS6 cam is a decent piece for a mild street car. There are some that don't want a rough idle, less mileage, or need to pass emissions without issues or fancy tuning.
They seem to make decent power in the LS6 crate engines, Frost reports 400+ RWHP on his dyno. I'd say it's not all that shabby.

definately good numbers adn i understand what your saying i just like something above and beyond plus i live in one of the few states with out emissions laws

**Firebirdjones** · 01-22-2011, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by bpopham22

ok cam noob here school me please. LSA lobe separation angle... has to do with smoother idle? ramp profile.....does that have to do with the power band? And no idea what an ICL is. I have no problem going with a stock ls6 cam, the only problem i have is do i want to spend 1300 on heads,1500 on an intake an TB,400 for a cam, and then around 1400 for the install,not including 500 bux for the oil pump and timing chain. Because im about to pay for a shop to install all my suspension parts once my income tax arrives, and i dont have the time to do it myself i work way too damn much. Id rather pay to have it done while im at work than spend the weekend chipping away at it.

Take Orions advice, do the stall first. After the stall you might not even want a camshaft right away. The stall is the biggest bang for your buck on an automatic 4th gen. I did my stall on our other 4th gen a few years ago and still haven't done the camshaft. The car is an absolute blast to drive with just the converter, and put the car in the 12's right off the bat.

I didn't check the link for camshafts that Orion posted, but I'd be rest assured he is steering you in the right direction, he's always been a big help to me and others. I'm sure it's a good read.

As far as explaining the ICL (intake center line) It's a very critical part of camshaft specs yet very simple. It's needed for correct install to verify the cams position and can even be tailored to your combo, either in the grind of the cam itself or where you install it.

If you have a cam with a 112 LSA and an ICL of 110. That tells you right off the bat the cam is 2 degrees advanced. More advance moves the torque curve a little lower in the rpm range, and shortens peak HP rpm. It also opens the intake valve sooner (moving it closer to the piston at TDC) and closes it sooner. This in turn builds more cylinder pressure as well. More advance also smooths out the idle and builds more vacuum.

Most cams ground for the street (off the shelf) are ground with advance already figured in,,,usually you'll see 4 degrees. Say an LSA of 114 and the ICL of 110.

You can also move this number around when you install the cam. Using a degree wheel you can check your ICL, and with adjustable timing chains or advance/retard bushings, you can move the ICL forward or backward moving the power band around.