Thinking of buying a C6 but...

**Huskerz1** · 03-25-2006, 04:03 PM

I Don't know a darn thing about them other than I like Lemans Blue with a 6-spd. Is $39k - $40K a good price or not. I get a suppliers discount but most dealerships say they can work lower. What are the must have options and why must I have them? I plan on driving to work and back with some standard horse play on the weekends. Also, what's the usual mods for Vettes? And what kind of potential can I squeeze out of the LS2 without going into the internals. I'm an F-body guy and I just don't know.

Your facts, opinions, and comments are appreciated.

**Vetteluv** · 03-25-2006, 07:14 PM

You get a supplier's discount on Corvettes? Most dealerships exclude Corvettes.

**Huskerz1** · 03-25-2006, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Vetteluv

You get a supplier's discount on Corvettes? Most dealerships exclude Corvettes.

Yes, it was explained to me as being at the sales managers descretion. Because the Dallas/Ft.Worth area is very competitive for Vette sales. There are 5 large Chevrolete dealerships within 30 miles of me. Actually the sales rep I talked to gave me a supliers discount quote on a Black M6 coupe with the 2LT package for $41K but I told him I was hoping to get in the 39s and he said it was do able. That was Bankston Chevrolete off of 820 Loop.

**Vetteluv** · 03-26-2006, 09:03 AM

That's great. I may to keep Dallas in mind when I purchase my next Corvette.

**Huskerz1** · 03-26-2006, 02:46 PM

I'm still waiting to hear from some C6 owners about my questions.

**issues** · 03-26-2006, 05:02 PM

i can tell you what i no
my friend bought a c6(m6) and i bought a 02 z06

as far as performance, the z06 is where its at, he and i raced, he is stock and i have vararam and borla, we raced over and over again, everytime the
z06 kills the c6 no contest, even though he doesnt have mods the torque management kills, he drove my z and says it feels nothing like his c6,"the z just wants to to go and go and go" direct quote from him,

i paid 31 for mine with 5000 miles on it
he paid 55 for his with 2 miles on it
updates to come,
choose wisely

**Huskerz1** · 03-26-2006, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by issues02zo6

i can tell you what i no
my friend bought a c6(m6) and i bought a 02 z06

as far as performance, the z06 is where its at, he and i raced, he is stock and i have vararam and borla, we raced over and over again, everytime the
z06 kills the c6 no contest, even though he doesnt have mods the torque management kills, he drove my z and says it feels nothing like his c6,"the z just wants to to go and go and go" direct quote from him,

i paid 31 for mine with 5000 miles on it
he paid 55 for his with 2 miles on it
updates to come,
choose wisely

Interesting. What is Torque management? Some kind of traction control?

**issues** · 03-27-2006, 08:18 PM

Torque management" is an unfortunate label for this behavior, but I suppose we're stuck with it. The real torque management is built into the A4 transmission. It commands reduced engine output during shifts to protect the drivetrain. The other "torque management" we're talking about here appears to be designed to prevent the engine from going into destructive detonation under certain operating conditions at low to moderate RPMs.

I'm afraid I'd have to write the equivalent to several chapters of an internal combustion textbook (which I've recently read) to properly explain this. But I'll try to over-simplify and give a lay explanation of the issue. All high compression engines are vulnerable to destructive detonation when sudden demand is asserted at low to moderate RPMs. In simple terms, the piston isn't moving rapidly enough to keep dynamic pressure down in the safe range when high demand is suddenly applied to a sharply tuned engine. This was masked in older carburetted engines by the accelerator pump which richened the mixture as demand was applied, and as reduced manifold vacuum caused spark to retard. In computer controlled engines, those mechanical systems aren't present, so the computer has to do the equivalent.

In very over-simplified terms, that's what the "torque management" people are talking about is doing. The problem is, it is being too aggressive for best performance, so we'd like to tune some of it out. In the old days, we'd adjust the pump shot on the carb and screw around with the distributor advance mechanisms. In today's cars, we have to futz with the computer instead. Note that this involves more than editing the MAF driven cell jumps in the fuel and spark tables. Those are for quasi-steady state conditions. This "TM" is transient behavior.

taken from corvette forum.com

**issues** · 03-27-2006, 08:22 PM

Torque management mainly comes in during shifts and is limited to those torque levels "during shifts", it becomes more noticeable when there is allot of traction like at the track with drag radials, etc. The available LS2 tuning software that is out there and including LS2_edit only has some of the TQ management tables that GM has in the C6.

taken from corvette forum.com

**Huskerz1** · 03-27-2006, 08:41 PM

So, this protective measure for the C6 taken by GM actually inhibits the performance? For reliability no doubt. Why even mod a C6 if access to all the torque management tables is unavailble at this time? It would seen you are only going to hit a wall of available performance untill full access is granted. Hmmmm...a used Z06 is starting to sound good.

**Huskerz1** · 03-29-2006, 07:47 AM

C6 M6 owners please chime in about your car.

**Huskerz1** · 03-31-2006, 09:26 AM

Gee, thanks for all the help C6 guys. I can't wait to buy a C6 and turn my nose up and inside out. You know, take a crap on a rose pedal lined toilet seat. I suppose I'll need graying hair and an escort. Ahh well, maybe I'm just not C6 material.

**CAMAROSS69** · 03-31-2006, 04:39 PM

Buy It

**issues** · 03-31-2006, 07:39 PM

get the used z06 buddy, cheaper, faster looks better

**jking** · 04-01-2006, 12:57 PM

I have an 02' Z06, and my buddy has an 05' C6.

I dirven his.

His is much more refined, more comfortable, quieter, and IMO, better looking. It's been in the shop a few times for some minor shit, but I think it is just bugs that new models tend to come with. Nothing major. I think it was just interior and brake noises.

You open the door with a button, and you carry a keypad that you keep in your pocket that unlocks the car when you approach it. It has a starter button instead of a key. It's kind of strange, but it's cool. I know that if you throw your jacket or backpack in the back of the car with the keypad in it, the car doesn't recognize it, and doesn't unlock so you are screwed.

He post on this site under "Modulistic".

The Z06 is faster, but more of a raw driving experience. The clutch and shifter is heavier, and the road noise is on par with a Jeep Wrangler. The OEM Goodyear Supercar tires wear out by 15k miles.

I've also owned an 04' LS1 C5. It's more refined than the Z06, but not nearly as fast.

All in all, I like the Z06 for the performance and the price. Mine is in showroom condition with 13k miles, and I paid 31k for it.

If I used it to for a daily driver, I would have a C6 though..

**jking** · 04-01-2006, 01:02 PM

BTW, the dealers in Houston advertise C6's all the time for 39k.

I don't think I would spend the money for the fancy packages. A base C6 is a very nice car. I personally don't need all of the trinkets..

In spite of the torque management, they seem to take to mods well. I know that folks see significant gains from LT's.

Most of them run in the 12.7-13.1 range bone stock. Not significantly faster than the LS1 C5. They trap 3-4 mph higher though.. Good drivers on fast tracks have gone under 12.50's.

**Huskerz1** · 04-01-2006, 01:51 PM

Hey thanks jKing. I think I would like the HUD. It just makes sense to keep your eyes on the road and the tac at the same time. I test drove a 97 M6 back when they were new. I really wasn't impressed. I waited and ended up buying a 2000 SS. I swear it feels more powerful than that 97. There are lots nice used Z06's around here. I'm sure I could find a decent deal. I like the new look of the C6. I'm sure the basic mods are already available. I just don't want to regret buying an LS2 C6 that gives me the feeling that it's computer is governed. I want the more refined ride to tell you the truth. I also want the ability to mod it and make as fast as I want.

**jking** · 04-01-2006, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Huskerz1

Hey thanks jKing. I think I would like the HUD. It just makes sense to keep your eyes on the road and the tac at the same time. I test drove a 97 M6 back when they were new. I really wasn't impressed. I waited and ended up buying a 2000 SS. I swear it feels more powerful than that 97. There are lots nice used Z06's around here. I'm sure I could find a decent deal. I like the new look of the C6. I'm sure the basic mods are already available. I just don't want to regret buying an LS2 C6 that gives me the feeling that it's computer is governed. I want the more refined ride to tell you the truth. I also want the ability to mod it and make as fast as I want.

There are some very fast modded C6's out there. I wouldn't worry about the torque management too much. It's definately an issue, but it's not a "wall".

It just limits a stock car from reaching it's potential when compared to a non-TM limited car like the C5 Z06. For instance, they have similar power-to-weight ratios to the C5 Z06 (Z06 slightly better), but the Z06 tends to turn times of a half second or better.

**jking** · 04-01-2006, 02:01 PM

And yeah, the HUD is cool.

My 04' didn't have it, but my 02' does.

**Huskerz1** · 04-01-2006, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by jking

I have an 02' Z06, and my buddy has an 05' C6.

I dirven his.

His is much more refined, more comfortable, quieter, and IMO, better looking. It's been in the shop a few times for some minor shit, but I think it is just bugs that new models tend to come with. Nothing major. I think it was just interior and brake noises.

You open the door with a button, and you carry a keypad that you keep in your pocket that unlocks the car when you approach it. It has a starter button instead of a key. It's kind of strange, but it's cool. I know that if you throw your jacket or backpack in the back of the car with the keypad in it, the car doesn't recognize it, and doesn't unlock so you are screwed.

He post on this site under "Modulistic".

The Z06 is faster, but more of a raw driving experience. The clutch and shifter is heavier, and the road noise is on par with a Jeep Wrangler. The OEM Goodyear Supercar tires wear out by 15k miles.

I've also owned an 04' LS1 C5. It's more refined than the Z06, but not nearly as fast.

All in all, I like the Z06 for the performance and the price. Mine is in showroom condition with 13k miles, and I paid 31k for it.

If I used it to for a daily driver, I would have a C6 though..

So who wins the races between you guys?