Questions on my heads and cam setup

**Justin93** · 12-01-2008, 04:15 PM

Ok so I had a chat today with Steve over at lsx tune.com to make arrangements to get my car tuned for the new heads and cam so that I can atleast drive it as I cant get to the dyno tuner untill spring time.

He brought to my attention that I may have PTV issues and Dynamic compress issues with my set up though he was not 100% sure. I unfortunately do not have the skill to fly cut my pistons and my friend doesnt have the tools to do so.

My setup
PRC5.3l Stage 2.5 heads milled to 59cc
PRC double valve springs
GM MLS Head Gaskets
Texas speed 224R cam 581/581 112 lsa

So my question is to those that are running my setup what was your PTV clearance as well as your dynamic compression. Texas Speed confirmed they have done tons of cars with the similar setup without fly cutting or other issues. The last thing I want is to have to run my DD on race Gas All the time. Please tell me Im not screwed!!!

**SOMbitch** · 12-05-2008, 09:54 AM

I think Steve is right you are gonna be close PTV but you can prolly squeak by. If you know how to use a degree wheel you can retard the cam a couple *'s when you put it in and pick up a little clearance on the intake side. I would measure ptv for sure and shoot for .080 on the intake and .100 on exhaust. Some get by with less. That cam prolly already has 2*'s advance ground in btw. Also, the wider the LSA of the cam the better it will clear also so if it is on a 114 that will help.

To check your DCR get all your #'s and use something like the pianoprodigy DCR calculator. Generally 8.7 DCR is considered the threshold for pump gas.

**ls1camino** · 12-06-2008, 05:48 PM

I've heard of people that have run 5.3L heads with a MS4 cam and didn't have any problem...I just sold my 224R cam and I am currently trying to get either a Torquer V.2 or 233/239 cam from Texas Speed...no one has told me I would have a problem with this setup.

Edit: but now that you say this...I'm going to go on Tech and ask if this setup will be a problem...damn you

Edit #2: I just went over to Tech and this was the second thread under the GenIII Internal Engine section...the Torquer V.3 has about the same duration, but a larger intake lift then the Torquer V.2 I'm planning on running, so I tihnk you and I are both fine running 5.3L Heads with our cams.

**Justin93** · 12-07-2008, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by ls1camino

I've heard of people that have run 5.3L heads with a MS4 cam and didn't have any problem...I just sold my 224R cam and I am currently trying to get either a Torquer V.2 or 233/239 cam from Texas Speed...no one has told me I would have a problem with this setup.

Edit: but now that you say this...I'm going to go on Tech and ask if this setup will be a problem...damn you

Edit #2: I just went over to Tech and this was the second thread under the GenIII Internal Engine section...the Torquer V.3 has about the same duration, but a larger intake lift then the Torquer V.2 I'm planning on running, so I tihnk you and I are both fine running 5.3L Heads with our cams.

Yea this and the dynamic comp ratio was my only other concern since I had the heads milled. I calculated the dynamic comp with the help of a member on tech that had access to a calculator. I can't wait to do this already! I went out and bought a FAST90/90 setup and larger injectors so I can squeeze every last bit out of her when Dyno time comes. For now Steve is going to do the Mail order tune on her just to get her running decent and then after Winters Over I'll probably drive it over to get Dyno tuned!

**SOMbitch** · 12-09-2008, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by ls1camino

I've heard of people that have run 5.3L heads with a MS4 cam and didn't have any problem...I just sold my 224R cam and I am currently trying to get either a Torquer V.2 or 233/239 cam from Texas Speed...no one has told me I would have a problem with this setup.

Edit: but now that you say this...I'm going to go on Tech and ask if this setup will be a problem...damn you

Edit #2: I just went over to Tech and this was the second thread under the GenIII Internal Engine section...the Torquer V.3 has about the same duration, but a larger intake lift then the Torquer V.2 I'm planning on running, so I tihnk you and I are both fine running 5.3L Heads with our cams.

Umm... A MS4 will not clear 5.3 stage 2.5(bigger valved heads) without flycutting. A MS3 will clear 5.3 2.5's IF you tell TSP what you are running and they recess the valves for that cam.

A MS4 will clear a stock valved size head like a TSP 243 stage I.

If you run a TV2 you need to go no mill with a GM MLS .054 compressed gasket to be safe. There is a difference between clearing and SAFELY clearing.

Also, duration length determines PTV clearance not lift. LSA and advance affect it to a lesser extent.

Good luck and consider your cam choice carefully and measure if you can

**ls1camino** · 12-09-2008, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by SOMbitch

Umm... A MS4 will not clear 5.3 stage 2.5(bigger valved heads) without flycutting. A MS3 will clear 5.3 2.5's IF you tell TSP what you are running and they recess the valves for that cam.

A MS4 will clear a stock valved size head like a TSP 243 stage I.

If you run a TV2 you need to go no mill with a GM MLS .054 compressed gasket to be safe. There is a difference between clearing and SAFELY clearing.

Also, duration length determines PTV clearance not lift. LSA and advance affect it to a lesser extent.

Good luck and consider your cam choice carefully and measure if you can

I'll have to check the thickness of my head gasket to see it it'll work.

How would you measure PTV?

**SOMbitch** · 12-10-2008, 05:29 AM

you can use a degree wheel or "clay" them with modeling clay. it's prolly on here if you search.

**SSwt00SS** · 12-10-2008, 06:01 AM

Justin, you will be fine with the set-up you are running...

you will not have any PTV clearance issues...

you will want to run 90+ octane gas or your car will run/perform like crap...

**SSwt00SS** · 12-10-2008, 06:04 AM

port the FAST 90/90 before you install it. trust me on this...

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58941

**SOMbitch** · 12-10-2008, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by SSwt00SS

Justin, you will be fine with the set-up you are running...

you will not have any PTV clearance issues...

you will want to run 90+ octane gas or your car will run/perform like crap...

Ummmm.....OK....... But when I was head shopping TSP, TEA and Livenois all told me on a 2.02/1.57 valve size 5.3 head that a 230/232 intake duration was as big as would SAFELY clear. Mike at TEA is the one who said 230 That was no mill and .054 gasket.

But what do they know

I would call TSP and ask them since they set up your heads. Let us know what they say if you do.

IMO a 228/228 is about as big as you should go.

PM if you wanna know how to clay heads. It is easy.

**SSwt00SS** · 12-10-2008, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by SOMbitch

Ummmm.....OK....... But when I was head shopping TSP, TEA and Livenois all told me on a 2.02/1.57 valve size 5.3 head that a 230/232 intake duration was as big as would SAFELY clear. Mike at TEA is the one who said 230 That was no mill and .054 gasket.

But what do they know

I would call TSP and ask them since they set up your heads. Let us know what they say if you do.

IMO a 228/228 is about as big as you should go.

PM if you wanna know how to clay heads. It is easy.

ok, that's great. running a 230/232 is the top tier they would feel comfortable running...

OP is running a single pattern 224 cam XER lobes. he's running the same cam that i am, and with my heads i have no PTV clearance issues...(2.02"int/1.57"ext, 59cc)...

the OP is running one of the most popular H/C combo's out there. if there were issues, people would have heard by now. im not faulting you, the OP or anyone for doing a clay-test to make sure, but there is no need to for this particular application...

**SSwt00SS** · 12-10-2008, 07:05 AM

personally, he should have gone LS6 Stage II heads, milled to 59cc. same bump in C/R as using the 5.3 heads, but will end up producing slightly more power for the same $$$ spent...

**SOMbitch** · 12-10-2008, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by SSwt00SS

ok, that's great. running a 230/232 is the top tier they would feel comfortable running...

OP is running a single pattern 224 cam XER lobes. he's running the same cam that i am, and with my heads i have no PTV clearance issues...(2.02"int/1.57"ext, 59cc)...

the OP is running one of the most popular H/C combo's out there. if there were issues, people would have heard by now. im not faulting you, the OP or anyone for doing a clay-test to make sure, but there is no need to for this particular application...

My bad..... I read LS1caminos thread and thought the OP had switched to a tv3 which would cause PTV probs with mill. OP should have a nice combo.

Sorry for the confusion.

I was up too late last night and not all there this morning LOL...

**SSwt00SS** · 12-10-2008, 07:39 AM

it's all good! no need for apologies. you brought up very valid points concerning PTV clearance and the need for clay testing. cant fault anyone for that...

**SOMbitch** · 12-10-2008, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by SSwt00SS

it's all good! no need for apologies. you brought up very valid points concerning PTV clearance and the need for clay testing. cant fault anyone for that...

Thanks man

I wasn't trying to be a butthead and hope I didn't come across that way

**Justin93** · 12-10-2008, 04:03 PM

Yep thanks for the reasurance. I had asked TSP Before I bought the heads and they said I'd be Ok, With that said My progress so far

I basically have all of the stock stuff pulled off minus the heads and the crank pulley. I will be going to autozone to rent a 3 claw puller tomorrow as well as an install tool. Then tomorrow Im hoping to make real Progress on this thing. While I was at summit today I also sprung the $15.00 for a BMR TB bypass kit and I will be getting my buddies dremel out and porting the fast tomorrow night! Wish me luck guys!, I'm at the point of no return.

**SSwt00SS** · 12-10-2008, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Justin93

... I will be getting my buddies dremel out and porting the fast tomorrow night! Wish me luck guys!, I'm at the point of no return.

Justin, i strongly suggest you port by hand, not by dremel. read the write up that i did. you run into the risk of removing too much with a dremel...

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58941

**Justin93** · 12-10-2008, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by SSwt00SS

Justin, i strongly suggest you port by hand, not by dremel. read the write up that i did. you run into the risk of removing too much with a dremel...

http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58941

Ok thanks for the tip, I noticed the runners on mine still have the witness marks in them so i'll have a little more sanding to do then you did correct? Also how long did it take yout? Did you have to replace the gasket between the top and bottom shell?

**SSwt00SS** · 12-11-2008, 04:44 AM

not gonna lie, it took me about a good 3 days to sand the inside top shell and then the middle and bottom shells together. the painting took another 2 days to do. i did not separate it into all 3 pieces. if you start with the 100 grit inside the runners, those witness marks will go away rather quickly. i did not have to replace the orange gasket inbetween the middle and top shell. i just used RTV sealant when it came time to put it all back together.

once you pull off the top shell you will be able to see and feel what and where you will need to sand down to make smooth. just take your time and it will turn out fine...

**Justin93** · 12-11-2008, 11:34 AM

Well we go the heads off today! My buddies got a huge puddle of dex cool in his garage now lol. I will say the engine bay is far more spacious with the rad and fans removed!!!!

For this being my first time pulling any LS motor completely apart
I am surprised at just how simple the internals on LSX motors are. Of course I wouldnt recomend doing it with out having a buddy helping you who's done it before! My friend worked at a local GM dealer for a few years before coming to work for the company I work at. Fingers Crossed this continues to go smoothly!