Subaru STI Race.

[Wesman]

Let me ask you this, stock for stock, no mods, no difference from factory, will you beat an o4 cobra with your LS1? I know I wont. However the STi's I sell have and continue to do so.

No they don't. A 230WHP STI isn't going to beat a stock LS1, and its especially not going to beat a 380WHP Mustang Cobra. You are off the wall

Also, if your saying a suspension modded LS1 car can hang with an STi in handling, find a video of that. It wouldnt happen without at least 5 grand in suspension mods, and even then I doubt it.

Yea, because nobody's ever road raced an F-body, they are only good for straight lines

You are ridiculous, 5K

Have you ever rode or, drove an STi? If not you should.

Yep. Not impressed. Slow as piss, terrible shifter, sounded like crap. Never will bother driving one of those riced up econocars again. Evo was even worse.

I love my 99 z28, but I still respect what an STi is capable of. We lack the AWD to hang with these things.

Right. A 9", slicks, and a 4K stall will never hang with an AWD STI

We lack the driver controlled center differential, and the front limited slip.

Wow, I lie awake at night because I don't have a driver controlled center differential and front limted slip. Give me a fucking break, those are called GIMMICKS. They are toys, nothing more.

[Wesman]

Word ! ^^^^^

I was just simply saying that since you want to mod an LS1 why not make it even for the Evo an STi ! There's plent of STI's and Evo's w/gt35's that are plenty reliable.

Yea. Plenty reliable until the stock bottom end gives way, or you spin the bearings because on the crank because the shitty oil starvation issues that the 4G63 has under high g cornering.

Even with suspension mods it couldn't hang(especially the Evo)! Maybe in the straights it might catch up some ! But not if they had gt35's or similar turbo's .

With suspension mods an F-body could easily hang with an Evo. What the hell do you thinkan Evo is?? Its a damn Lancer economy car pile of shit, with all the suspension upgraded and a different engine. So if that can be made to handle well, the F-body chassis sure as hell can.

And if you're going to put a "GT35R" on the evo, might as well put 2 on the LS1. You know, even things up a bit.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=861784

[Wesman]

Hydroplaning is all on tires and what your doing when your going through deep water. Water, rubber and road surface doesn't care what kind of car your driving. An awd will hydro just as nice as a rwd car. Cornering in wet turns is a different issue not hydroplaning.

Exactly. The type of car is irrelevent, hydroplaning is due to tires.

[Wesman]

HAHA I love this thread!!! Its the pick on WESASS thread!!

Does anyone live near this guy or ever personally talked with him?

He seems lonely You need to get laid man!!

Post reported. Irrelevent to the topic and inappropriate.

[jrc1122]

I don't like you. But you don't see me calling you names due to your sexual orientation, size, or the way you look. I can think of plenty of things that would apply to a person like you, but I don't say them.

Classy, and very upscale. lol

Okay, the difference is you don't know me or the answer to any of those things you seem to dislike about me. I do however know the color of you car.

Let's not start with 5th grade name calling. I stand by my point, because it is a valid one. What is next? Am I a "poo-poo head" lol.

Your personal attacks only proves you have lost in the arena of ideas and stoop to childish bantering to push your hatred of anything different than you or different than your car.

[Wesman]

Classy, and very upscale. lol

Okay, the difference is you don't know me or the answer to any of those things you seem to dislike about me. I do however know the color of you car.

Let's not start with 5th grade name calling. I stand by my point, because it is a valid one. What is next? Am I a "poo-poo head" lol.

Your personal attacks only proves you have lost in the arena of ideas and stoop to childish bantering to push your hatred of anything different than you or different than your car.

Personal attacks?? I don't personally attack anyone unless they start with me first, like you ALWAYS do. I state my opinion on something, I can back it up with facts, and you come in and personally attack me because you disgree.

Do everyone a favor and just stop posting. You have nothing to contribute, all you do is start an arguement and end up getting the thread completely off topic.

[jrc1122]

Personal attacks?? I don't personally attack anyone unless they start with me first, like you ALWAYS do. I state my opinion on something, I can back it up with facts, and you come in and personally attack me because you disgree.

Do everyone a favor and just stop posting. You have nothing to contribute, all you do is start an arguement and end up getting the thread completely off topic.

Naa Naa Na Boo Booo.. Stick you head in doo doo.. Now I feel like I have successfully matched your level of intellect.

LOL

[Wesman]

Naa Naa Na Boo Booo.. Stick you head in doo doo.. Now I feel like I have successfully matched your level of intellect.

LOL

Nope. You've just degraded yourself, again.

Like I said, its in everyone best interest (including your own) that you just stop posting now.

[jrc1122]

Nope. You've just degraded yourself, again.

Like I said, its in everyone best interest (including your own) that you just stop posting now.

I know I "degraded" myself-- It's called taking one for the team and stooping to your level for comic value. I'm sure 3rd parties completely understand what I am saying. You have made quite a name for yourself with your hateful, snide remarks. We all just snicker at them and move on.

Unlike you towards me, I don't personally dislike you. I just think your continuous bashing of the EVO/ STI types may stem from a deeper issue.
I am sure without much doubt that you the fun guy at the party to sit around and listen to your embellished rants on various topics. I bet it is quiet fun. To be completely honest, I am a little jealous that I am not so privileged to be in your presence during one of you live RICER rants. I am sure you are a hoot at the local bars.


BUT....I take it, we wouldn't hang out if North East Fbodies did a meet. LOL-- After all I do live in PA, you live in NJ right.

and to stay on topic--

I think the STI is a nice car. Especially when modified. I prefer the evo to the STI, and I prefer the WS6 over both (obviously)-- because I have never owned an EVO, but I do own a WS6.

[Daz-E]

Yea. Plenty reliable until the stock bottom end gives way, or you spin the bearings because on the crank because the shitty oil starvation issues that the 4G63 has under high g cornering.



With suspension mods an F-body could easily hang with an Evo. What the hell do you thinkan Evo is?? Its a damn Lancer economy car pile of shit, with all the suspension upgraded and a different engine. So if that can be made to handle well, the F-body chassis sure as hell can.

And if you're going to put a "GT35R" on the evo, might as well put 2 on the LS1. You know, even things up a bit.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=861784

Putting twin turbo on a vette does not even thing up ! Vette's are a different story because you don't have to add anything to it cause it can handle very well and can easily take out both Evo & STi on a course and in a straight line stock for stock ! We are talking F-body anyway which already has a hp advantage but thats it .

Though the Evo started as a Lancer the only thing it shares with the Lancer is the unibody.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancer_Evolution

As far as reliability, you add a big turbo to any car and reliabilty is challenged and is up to your tuner to keep it within its limits. There's been plenty of LS1 to pop or spin a bearing without turbo. The 7 bolt 4G63's(95-99 Eclipse GST/GSX) had oil starvation problems.

I'm assuming you've raced or have a video of an F-body handling an Evo or STi on a road course ! I'm sorry not all cars are made equal, if an Lancer can be made to handle that doesn't mean a suspension modded F-body is going to be equal.

[buswwa]

No they don't. A 230WHP STI isn't going to beat a stock LS1, and its especially not going to beat a 380WHP Mustang Cobra. You are off the wall

First, if your going to quote horsepower, do either both at the wheel, or both at the crank. At the crank the 04 Cobra is 390. At the crank the 04 STi is 300.

Yea, because nobody's ever road raced an F-body, they are only good for straight lines

Then dont you contradict your whole argument about them being able to hang with an STi in the turns right there? Oh, and tell that to the guys that run at (or ran I guess) at Limerock a year or two ago. There were 3rd, and 4th gens, as well as GTO's, and various other makes there. Also tell that to the guys that autocross thier 4th gens.
You are ridiculous, 5K

Fair enough, maybe 5 grand was a bit much.


Yep. Not impressed. Slow as piss, terrible shifter, sounded like crap. Never will bother driving one of those riced up econocars again. Evo was even worse.

Sounds like the same thing you say about any car made in another country. No surprises there. I have said nothing about Evos. I cant stand those things.
As for the shifter, triple cone synchros in first and second seem to engage nice and smooth. Dual cones for 3-4 are pretty tight too. 5-6 do leave a little to be desired, but out of 6 thats only two gears that arent as smooth to shift into. Sound is opinion, so I wont say anything about that. I will say they ride very hard, but those bridgestone potenzas arent exactly a soft compound tire.

Right. A 9", slicks, and a 4K stall will never hang with an AWD STI

Ok, then how about a modded STi? Larger Intercooler, Cobb exhaust, some slicks. I didnt say larger turbo, but something has to equate for the stall, hence the intercooler.

Wow, I lie awake at night because I don't have a driver controlled center differential and front limted slip. Give me a fucking break, those are called GIMMICKS. They are toys, nothing more.

Calling those two items gimmicks simply explains how much you know about drivetrains other then rwd. Being able to set the torque split from 50-50 all the way to 90-10 makes a huge diff in handling. Front limited slip, well, that must be a gimmick, as just about every performance front drive car has one. Because uneducated performance car shoppers will just pony up without doing research first.

What you call toys, some people consider a pretty impressive car, for a Japanese 4 banger.

[buswwa]

Oh yeah, btw.....

[Wesman]

Putting twin turbo on a vette does not even thing up ! Vette's are a different story because you don't have to add anything to it cause it can handle very well and can easily take out both Evo & STi on a course and in a straight line stock for stock ! We are talking F-body anyway which already has a hp advantage but thats it .

I was referring to the motor, not the car. in case you didn't notice, F-bodies and Vette's happen to use the same engine...

Though the Evo started as a Lancer the only thing it shares with the Lancer is the unibody.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancer_Evolution

Its the same damn car with nothing more than upgraded parts.

As far as reliability, you add a big turbo to any car and reliabilty is challenged and is up to your tuner to keep it within its limits. There's been plenty of LS1 to pop or spin a bearing without turbo. The 7 bolt 4G63's(95-99 Eclipse GST/GSX) had oil starvation problems.

Right here:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=188126

I'm assuming you've raced or have a video of an F-body handling an Evo or STi on a road course ! I'm sorry not all cars are made equal, if an Lancer can be made to handle that doesn't mean a suspension modded F-body is going to be equal.

The chassis is an econo car chassis thats been tweaked and upgraded. It was never designed for performance from the start, it was designed for a cheap compact car. The F-body chassis was designed for a sports car to begin with. Hence its rigid structure, SLA Strut front suspension, 3-link rear, and rearward engine placement for weight distribution. With the right handling upgrades it will easily keep pace with any Evo or STi.

[Wesman]

Oh yeah, btw.....

They obvious had some drive issues if the best they could pull out of a Cobra was 13.3. Look at the trap speeds, there's almost a 10MPH difference. Thats buslenghts in terms of distance from a roll.

Funny how everyone is so quick to quote the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times for the STI, but neglect to note that the trap speeds and 5-60 times suck. The car can sprint off the line because of AWD, punch it from a roll and its a complete dog. The actual acceleration isn't there, it won't put you back in the seat like the Cobra will. And thats the fun in owning fast car, actually going fast, not claiming the best numbers because you can launch with AWD.

[big hammer]

subaru sucks

[Wesman]

Calling those two items gimmicks simply explains how much you know about drivetrains other then rwd. Being able to set the torque split from 50-50 all the way to 90-10 makes a huge diff in handling. Front limited slip, well, that must be a gimmick, as just about every performance front drive car has one. Because uneducated performance car shoppers will just pony up without doing research first.

You are the ignorant one if you buy into that crap.

Do you see Porsche 911 Turbos with center differential setting toys?? No, because the car just does what its supposed to do automatically, without the need for driver input.

What you call toys, some people consider a pretty impressive car, for a Japanese 4 banger.

Some people do. I don't.

[buswwa]

They obvious had some drive issues if the best they could pull out of a Cobra was 13.3.
Yeah, the drivers for Hot Rod magazine needed the driver mod. Sure.
Look at the trap speeds, there's almost a 10MPH difference. Thats buslenghts in terms of distance from a roll.
Maybe it has to do with weight difference, and finla gear ratios. I dont know how they came in with those traps. They did sate in the article the best launch they could pull with the Cobra was a 2.25 60 foot due to stock tires. As far as that goes, we are talking about stock to stock. Im reasonable. Ill admit to the fact that Ive never driven the Cobra, so I dont know what its like to feel the supercharger kick in. From what Ive been reading, due to the linear power curve, it will throw you just about through the seat. Cool. I love that sudden push when the throttle is hammered.
Funny how everyone is so quick to quote the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times for the STI, but neglect to note that the trap speeds and 5-60 times suck.
As far as I understood, it only matters who wins the race. Trap speeds might suck, 5-60 roll, might suck (to you, as you dont like the way the car drives) but 1/4 mile is what I like to race. Cars get setup completely diff if they are just competing in 1/8 mile.

The car can sprint off the line because of AWD, punch it from a roll and its a complete dog. If it can sprint off the line, why wouldnt it be quick from a roll? Are you saying it jumps off the line and at 5 mph it has nothing left to give? I know from a 40 it's a whole nother story, but saying they cant run from 5 makes no sense from a mechanical/ physical sense. You'd still be in first, and in order to get the damn things to break loose, you have to hammer it from a dig, at around 4500-5000 rpms. If you go just below that, like 42-4300 rpms, it feels like your neck will snap fairly soon. The actual acceleration isn't there, it won't put you back in the seat like the Cobra will. And thats the fun in owning fast car, actually going fast, not claiming the best numbers because you can launch with AWD.

So your saying that only LS1s and Termies (or other v-8 rwd cars) will put you in the seat? I say the STi can throw you back in the seat plenty hard. 0-60 times in the STi are right around 4.2. I dont know what they are in the Termie. Fun is again, opinion. My sister used to think her 4 cyl geo metro was a blast to drive. Again, I love my Z, but regardless, the STi is a damn fast car. As for claiming numbers.... isnt that what everyone who likes fast cars does?

Oh, and on a completely diff topic, how do you break up quotes like that? Im sure my responses would be easier to read if I could do that.
Wesman, I want you to understand, Im not trying to be a dick, or start flame wars. Im just having conversatin as I would at work.

[JwMonE99]

Wow I cant belive there is a whole arguement on here about the STI, I am not even going to read the other pages, bottom line is there is no use for racing with an STI/EVO unless its some kinda rally race offroad (very popular in japan) it was not meant to race from a dig or a roll, so fuck all the AWD cars that do, RWD V8 is where its at bottom line. And as for that magazine article, they must of had some fucktard driving the cobra who cant launch a car with IRS but they decide to go with his time because they felt like degrading the cobra to make the "sti" more competable. (SP? if such word) so just leave it at this V8 RWD (either cobra or f-body) > STI/EVO toy cars

[buswwa]

Wow I cant belive there is a whole arguement on here about the STI, I am not even going to read the other pages, bottom line is there is no use for racing with an STI/EVO unless its some kinda rally race offroad (very popular in japan) it was not meant to race from a dig or a roll, so fuck all the AWD cars that do, RWD V8 is where its at bottom line. And as for that magazine article, they must of had some fucktard driving the cobra who cant launch a car with IRS but they decide to go with his time because they felt like degrading the cobra to make the "sti" more competable. (SP? if such word) so just leave it at this V8 RWD (either cobra or f-body) > STI/EVO toy cars

Wow. First, Rally racing is popular in Europe, as well as here in the states. It might not be nascar, or on Speed channel (Im not sure as I cant get get Speed with comcast. Bastards) but it is featured on ESPN (I dont know which of the 8 channels they have) pretty frequently.
Second. Do you think they dont launch when the rally races start? The difference is they have to run longer then the 1/4 mile.
Third. I get a kick out the fact that the magazine must have had a "fucktard" driving the Cobra cause it didnt win. You do know they run more then once, right? If it was Motor Trend, or Car and Driver, then I might agree about driver error. Not Hot Rod. Those guys drive gross h/p rwd all the time, and many are faster then the Cobra. Im sure they know how to launch a car properly, otherwise they probably wouldnt be driving for Hot Rod.
As for wether they are toy cars, thats an opinion. Again, I said nothing about the Evo.

[hutch1999]

03-04 Cobra SVT 0-60 4.5 sec & 1/4 in 12.9

Just throwing those numbers I found in. Continue the fight...