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09-19-2016, 11:06 AM #1
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
- Location
- Merrick,NY
- Posts
- 48
- 2001 WS6
Factory subframe connectors in verts?
WS6.com states factory convertibles had subframe connectors. Anybody aware of this?
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09-20-2016, 11:25 AM #2
There is a dinky sheet metal x-brace on convertibles that acts more as a drive shaft safety loop but it is by no means a subframe connector. There are both bolt on and weld in 4 point SFC available for convertibles and some used to make SFCs with 6 points for convertibles but they are very hard to find.
ATI Procharger, SFCs, Y-pipe, LM2, BBK Shorty Headers, Corvette N73 Magnesium Wheels, 4th Circle Designs Stripe and Overlay kit
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09-20-2016, 05:29 PM #3
Even a set of 2-point SFCs will make a significant difference. Get some.
Lid, Throttle Body, LS6 Intake, Heads, Cam, Magnaflow, LS7 Clutch, SFCs, STB, Panhard Bar, Strano Springs, Hollow Sway Bars, Poly/Roto LCAs, Konis, MGW Shifter
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09-22-2016, 06:52 AM #4
I just added UMI subframe connects to my 01 Vert and it was a definite improvement. I bought through ws6.com
I got the weld-in version with the $10 boltin hardware so i could bolt in until i get them welded this winter.2001 Trans Am Vert
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09-23-2016, 09:40 AM #5
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- fort myers,fl
- Age
- 75
- Posts
- 95
black- 1998 trans am convertible
can you explain what improvement. just got vert back from body shop, doing research for suspension. except for shocks sway bar links everything else has 268k miles on it. car is a daily driver. not much into racing prefer top down, tunes up cruising
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09-23-2016, 09:46 AM #6
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Location
- Florida Man Status Acheivement
- Posts
- 11,785
Navy Blue Metallic- 98 T/A, 00 FBVert, 78T/A
The non vert cars get a decent amount of body flex based on the unibody design. Now cut the top off and you get even more flex. 3pt sfc connectors stiffen up the body alot by cross tying the body. Even under stock performance the body flexes. It's a good investment for any f body, IMHO they should have always come with SFC's or should have been framed out.
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09-23-2016, 05:37 PM #7
I have 2-point SFCs (bought it before anyone made 3-points for the verts). Once you install them, the car becomes more "solid" as the front subframe (engine and suspension) is now bolted/welded to the rear suspension. Essentially, the car becomes more like "one piece" rather than a front and rear working separately.
When you turn a corner at speed, you will feel that the four wheels all work better together, since the body is not twisting/rolling at different rates in front and back.
Get 3-points if you can afford 'em. But if not, the 2-points will do you well.
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09-26-2016, 04:30 AM #8
My commute has some fairly crappy roads with bumps and potholes and such. With the connects on the car seems to soak it up a bit better and not feel like it wants to break in half.
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09-26-2016, 08:07 AM #9
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Location
- fort myers,fl
- Age
- 75
- Posts
- 95
black- 1998 trans am convertible
LOOKS like i will be adding SFC to my parts list. is UMI the only choice? i was planning to change rear sway bar,panhard etc.first, so sfc would be delayed 6 months or so. which would you recommend i do first?
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09-26-2016, 08:10 AM #10
There are others. I just based my purchase on reviews and best bang for the buck.
I did the SFC first since I did not want the car getting beat up or anything shaken loose. The other things will help handling n such, but I always do the SFC on any of these to lock the car in place first and then worry about the other stuff.
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09-26-2016, 08:51 AM #11
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Location
- Florida Man Status Acheivement
- Posts
- 11,785
Navy Blue Metallic- 98 T/A, 00 FBVert, 78T/A
No UMI is not the only choice.
I know of Founders and BMR sell SFC's
BMR and Founders only sells 2 point for verts though.
UMI sells both 2 & 3 point for verts
Now I will disclose that all of my suspension except my drive shaft safety loop is from UMI.http://www.ls1.com/forums/f7/my-6-liter-build-174257/
http://www.ls1.com/forums/f8/my-8-8-rear-build-165553/
6.0L Block - Forged 403ci , Polluter Stg3 Cam, FAST 102mm Intake, NW102 TB, MSD wires, NGK TR6 plugs, Truck Coil Packs, LS3 Fuel Injectors, CC Pacesetter LT Headers, TS&P ORY, QTP e-Cutout, Magnaflow Muffler, 104mm Air Lid & Line Lock, Catch Can, Stage 2 T56 w/Viper shaft, PRO 5.0 Shifter, Tick MC, SPEC Stg3+ Clutch, QT SFI BH, MWC DSL, Full UMI Performance Suspension, Viking Coilovers, YR1 Snowflake Wheels wrapped in NT555 tires & Custom Fab Ford 8.8 rear w/Wavetrac Diff 3.93 Yukon Gears, WSQ Hood, 3"CM Strange Eng Drive Shaft.
00 FB Vert - "Stockish" Belstein Shocks, Hotchkis Springs (1" Drop), C7 Snowflake 17" Wheels
78 FB - Just getting started......
Horsepower never lies, but is often lied about!
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09-26-2016, 08:56 AM #12
Founders does not sell for Verts.
"Question: Do you make them for a 2001 Convertible Trans Am?
Answer: Convertible cars have full frame rails already.
By Founders Performance LLC on July 13, 2016"Last edited by hardtrailz; 09-26-2016 at 09:00 AM.
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09-26-2016, 05:35 PM #13
Whoever responded from Founders needs to be fired. They obviously have no idea what they are talking about. F-bodies in any configuration do not have and have never had full frame rails. By their basic structure, convertibles are always more prone to body flex which will impact the effectiveness of your suspension. The little sheet metal x-brace is an absolute joke. Crawl under your car and pull the four tiny bolts and look at it. There is no way that thing is going to significantly affect the stiffness of the chassis on your car.
A really fun test to see the difference is to jack up your car (front or rear) using the factory side jacking points and watch the body flex while only one wheel goes up. (fair warning, be very sure you have the jack in exactly the right spot or you can tweak the front fender and front edge of the door badly) After you install the sub-frame connectors you can put a jack under the front or rear mounting point of the SFC and jack the car up and both the front and rear wheels will raise on that side. Many of the parts places don't stock convertible specific parts because 1) there were a lot fewer convertibles built and 2) people usually put their money into upping the horsepower on a non-convertible platform because they are inherently more stable and lighter from the factory. You really might want to consider spending your money somewhere besides Founders if that is their answer.
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09-26-2016, 05:39 PM #14
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09-26-2016, 07:10 PM #15
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09-26-2016, 08:38 PM #16
As a fellow convertible owner, I'm gonna vote for the SFCs first. I can say that SFCs and Strano's sway each made a big difference when I installed them (not at the same time). My car came with Konis and Bilsteins from the previous owner, so I can't comment on a difference in shocks, but the general consensus from those who know (Sam Strano, for starters) is that the shocks are the single most important handling/ride quality mod you can do. However, when we take mileage and wear and tear (and the accumulation of body flex over all those miles) into account, that pushes the SFCs into slot number 1 in my book.
If I were going for the most bang for my buck, here's what I would do in order:
SFCs
Shocks
Sway Bars
LCAs
Springs, IMO, is more a matter of what kind of ride you want and whether you want to lower the car: the stock springs with Konis and sway bars is actually a really nice set up. I like it just as good (for different reasons) as the same set up with Strano springs.
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02-20-2017, 06:20 AM #17
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
- Location
- oceanside
- Posts
- 56
Silver- 2002 T/A Ws6 convertible
Thanks for heads-up with the SFC's. Mine are on the way! Since I've got the car up on jackstands doing my exhaust (and a little rust cleaning and prevention in the floorboards BTW), it will be worth it to install the SFC's asap. Just hope the weather holds here in NY so I can get it done...
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05-21-2017, 03:02 PM #18
- Join Date
- Sep 2005
- Location
- NE Indiana
- Posts
- 541
Black- 1998 Trans Am WS6 'Vert
Woah, sorry I don't visit often enough, but this is a BIG NO-NO. Unless you are installing bolt-ins and doing the final torque with the car on all 4 wheels, do NOT install (especially the weld-ins) with the suspension unloaded. The best way to install SFCs is with the car's weight on the tires, otherwise you'll unnecessarily increase stresses on the body, which is never a good thing.
I was lucky enough to get the Kenny Brown double diamonds while they were still being made, probably the best. Although, other manufacturer's 3-point weld-in SFCs are probably just as good. Even when new, my car would lurch to one side on launch, requiring correction. With the KBDDSFCs, it goes straight as an arrow.Last edited by JohnnyBs98WS6Rag; 05-21-2017 at 03:05 PM.
Johnny B - '98 "Triple Black" WS6 Convert, M6, All Options, ASC #3030 (1 of 50)
KBDDSFC, DGM C/F Tonneau, MTI C/F Lid, K&N, HPP-III, 160 T-stat, Pro 5.0
Link to Firebird Production Breakdowns
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05-22-2017, 03:55 AM #19
- Join Date
- Aug 2016
- Location
- oceanside
- Posts
- 56
Silver- 2002 T/A Ws6 convertible
Thanks for the follow-up - I haven't done them yet. I have the bolt ins and see that the final torquing should be with the car down on the suspension
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05-22-2017, 07:29 AM #20
Joe, as JohnnyB indicates, the best way to do this is to have the car up on a lift so you can have the suspension loaded and have access to the fittings. If you are like many of us who do not have a lift in your garage, you will find that unless you are 5 years old you can not slide under the car to tighten anything while it is sitting flat on the garage floor. My technique to tighten suspension parts is to put the front two wheels up on ramps then support the back end of the car with jack stands under the axle, ensuring that the car is sitting level. This puts the same pressure on the suspension as if it were on the garage floor but gives me enough room to safely slide under and get a torque wrench to swing so I can tighten things to the proper spec.
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