De-screen MAF? Yes or No...

**StuntmanMike** · 10-19-2007, 11:04 AM

Wow...I posted this before I went away on vacation, and had decided to leave the MAF alone after the first few responses.

Never thought I'd see five pages of replies when I got back!!

**LS2Tuner** · 10-19-2007, 11:11 AM

Very amusing seeing that we have already done this in VAST DETAIL!!

LOL

**b.lee** · 10-19-2007, 12:15 PM

not worth it.
no benefit.

**LETHALxLS1** · 10-19-2007, 12:25 PM

Well- I am pretty sure EVERY topic on LS1s has already been covered on this site. If we didnt repost topics there would be nothing to talk about. hahahaha

**kool-aide** · 10-20-2007, 07:41 AM

long post comin, cuz that's my style

**kool-aide** · 10-20-2007, 07:42 AM

In case any one is still listening to this thread.

I used to Own a 99 Dakota R/T, that's the Magnum 360 for those not too familiar. As far as my little head can recall there is no MAF on this engine, nor the lovely 318. All I remember is an air intake system hooked to the fender supplying air into the TB, that simple. I bring this up because that 360 is a power maker, and so is the 318.

My point is there must be something to the MAF that makes it special, maybe that climate altitude stuff? But what about all the R/Ts sold in the US at diff alts and such? So to confuse myself and others, why can the 360 crank like crazy without a MAF and the LS1s and 5.0s use one? I would say it’s the ECM design and software. I bet the 360 doesn’t work like the GM or Ford.

I like that guy’s water faucet example, but i thought the screen was to conserve water by reducing flow. I also thought fluid behavior changed based on what it is passing, a bend, stairs, a screen, your hand. I would say the MAF screen is a restriction that causes turbulence, not straight air. How do I get a straight fluid by sending it past an obstruction? Doesn’t the air passing the edge of the material get all turbulent and stuff? I wouldn’t compare my sink faucet to a MAF. If anything look at the air induced by the faucet screen versus free flow, and notice the massive increase in flow w/o that screen. Last time I did this exp the de-screen water was pretty straight looking, hi flow, and wastes lots of water. You still get turbulence cuz of the pipes edge as it goes from faucet to the great outdoors.

take that MAF and stick it in the path of air with some kind of dye or something. Then you can see what the air will look like on the back side. Of course you can do it with and w/o a tube acting as a tunnel. For that matter doesn't the tube / tunnel / air passage act as a turbulent factor? Won’t the fluid sliding over the surface change its path and flow? Sarge may have stayed awake in Physics, but I can tell you thermal fluid and dynamics is enough to make me drink. That’s why I’m a code monkey.

Those white lab coat guys do this with any fluid to try and predict or understand what will happen, both good and bad affects.

I think the MAF screen was a cheap way to restrict air flow to under rate or provide the f-body LS1 with less power. BTW I think the previous owner of my car took it out. Now I have to take it apart again and have a look see.
So dude do what you want and be proud that you did something. But if you want expert advice on fluid dynamics. Well get your big brain on and step into a lab ready to play and experiment til you pass out. The rest is a bunch of guys trying to figure out who’s is bigger, lol…. I agree this hobby is made fun by lots of guys trying to help and figure out the complex.
I will post back latter and let you know if I have a screen.

**kool-aide** · 10-20-2007, 07:54 AM

still got mine, don't know what to tell other than dawn the white lab coat and test it out.

**LETHALxLS1** · 10-20-2007, 11:52 AM

IMO- the reason you cant compare the MAF screen to a faucet screen is because a faucet screen is a air reator(sp?) it puts air in the water coming out by its agitation. I would think a screen would have a much different effect on air passing through(as in a MAF) than water passing through(as in a faucet).

**fluke** · 10-20-2007, 12:02 PM

I like to think of it like putting chicken wire in front of a vaccuum cleaner or a fan or something.. I don't think it would make much of a difference of flow in AIR. However if by chance something came loose in front of the MAF then it would keep larger things from getting sucked in there. I'm leaving mine on; odds are nothing will make it to that screen but I like knowing it's there just in case and it really shouldn't make any noticable difference to the air flow, imo.

**LETHALxLS1** · 10-20-2007, 12:09 PM

I found a small piece of grass in my MAF screen one day and was glad it was on there.

**kool-aide** · 10-20-2007, 12:13 PM

at least you took a shot at air reator. But that's what i was thinking, it intensionally reduces output and adds air to the mix, but hey i'm not a plumper either. And that's not a MAF. I just thought it was an odd analogy.

I say leave it alone and save money for other power projects. Besides i'm not gunna argue fluid dynamics, way too complicated for me. I'll take my check book down to the shop and buy something cool for the car, fuzzy dice, headers, a new dash pad, what ever before i get to worried about how much if any power i'm loosing on a MAF de-screen.

I think if your worried about beating some one in a race. Your money would be well spent on driving lessons, practice and not free mods, IMO. I personally would rather spend my free time getting drive time exp versus bloody knuckles on free mods.

Although i am so tempted just to do for fun and to piss in the wind. Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead. I'll either be a hero or a zero, but at least i'll be someone, lol....

good luck dude. Just do what you want and always remember. The worst thing that can happen is you break and fix it. I've had my share of bumming rides to work cuz i f'ed up the car. Just ask my wife about the 30 hours (that's right an real all nighter) straight i spent on one motor mount and still didn't get it in right. If you don't have the money to bail yourself out, then just let it be, and be happy with whatcha got.

Good luck.

kool-aide

**LETHALxLS1** · 10-20-2007, 12:35 PM

fuzzy dice-cracked me up! hahahahahah

**kool-aide** · 10-20-2007, 07:25 PM

my wife was tinker bell fuzzy dice....

**LETHALxLS1** · 10-20-2007, 08:16 PM

O-thats cool man-didnt mean anything by it. I have a vanilla pine tree on my mirror right now.

**LETHALxLS1** · 10-20-2007, 08:17 PM

wow- I bought my Z/28 in Deltona Florida!

**kool-aide** · 10-20-2007, 08:27 PM

ah, i still have the scooby doo air freshen from like two cars ago in mine. My son gave it too me, so it rides with me no matter what.

Deltona eh. I'm off of exit 111a.

**LETHALxLS1** · 10-20-2007, 08:35 PM

Bought my car about 3 miles from that exit.

**Sarge** · 10-21-2007, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by BREAKxNECKxSPEED

IMO- the reason you cant compare the MAF screen to a faucet screen is because a faucet screen is a air reator(sp?) it puts air in the water coming out by its agitation. I would think a screen would have a much different effect on air passing through(as in a MAF) than water passing through(as in a faucet).

Well I'm glad folks are thinking anyway

A screen on a faucet does not introduce air...the little holes in between the two screens introduce air....Tear yours down and look at it....there are two screen aren't there? The air is introduced from the void area between the two screens....the last screen "straightens" out the flow.....just like the screen in your MAF does....

**kool-aide** · 10-21-2007, 06:49 AM

BREAKxNECKxSPEED, we should meet up some time. I want to hang out at one of the local central florida f-body get togethers but always seem to miss them.

Well Sarge I won't dispute that. My faucet always leaks. I think i'll leave it and the screens alone.

I hope we have all give StuntmanMike plenty to think about.

**LETHALxLS1** · 10-21-2007, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Well I'm glad folks are thinking anyway

A screen on a faucet does not introduce air...the little holes in between the two screens introduce air....Tear yours down and look at it....there are two screen aren't there? The air is introduced from the void area between the two screens....the last screen "straightens" out the flow.....just like the screen in your MAF does....

Sarge-I dunno if they have 2 screens in them now but back in the day they had one. I know this because I used to "borrow" them for special occassions. LOL Or-maybe they had 2 screens and I forgot that I previously "borrowed" one.