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:seesaw: I am faced with a question that i have read so much about and i am still unsure of what to do... I have an 01 WS.6 and i cant choose weather i want to turbo the car or supercharge it. i am looking to do this within the next month... So there where a couple of ???'s i had for anyone who might know... STS Twin Turbo? or ATI Procharger? Power benefits at what RPM range? Is 450RWHP possible on stock block? Thanks to anyone who can help i appreciate any input... :sword:
Have you looked in the forced induction section, tons of info on this question and from what I have read many ppl would say turbo over SC, just take a look.
id do a d1sc procharger with a blower cam... a little more expensive than the turbo.. but the turbo is rear mounted therefore the oil has to travel all the way from your engine to the bac of the car.. if for some reason something pinches or obstructs that line in any way.. youll ever know and the impeller and bearings and all that goodstuff will disintegrate.. and will then be ran though your motor which will destroy it beyond al repair.. its been a known problem with those things but they make great power.. but there is a reason that very few people have them..
i read everything there is on the forced induction page... i posted this here becasue i want oppinions from the guys on here... thanks for the input anyone else have any info as far as which power source adds power at what point in the RPM range... ???
Dude Sts All The Way! You Cannot Beat The Sound, It Sounds Like A Jet! And It Kicks You In The Nuts Every Time You Hit The Gas!!!!!
i'd definately go with a d1sc procharger but thats just me
Is there a real difference between the power gains from an ATI Procharger or Vortech?
How much boost can a LS1 engine take and what is the compression on a stock 2002 LS1. If you have headers with the larger Y-pipe and high flow CATs does this allow you to increase the boost? I have a D-1SC and I am contemplating going to 8lbs boost but since I live at a high altitude (3800ft above sea level) I think that the 8lbs boost would be more like a 6lb boost if corrected.
Just want to know if I am assuming too much! Need help in answering the questions! I got the package with all of the 60lb injectors, high flow fuel pump, new injector rails, underdrive pulley and computer program. Still need some help though as the D-1SC is capable of doing 14lbs of boost!
I would vote towards the turbo setup. It's just all around more effiecent. I can't see losing hp to spin the S/C and the more boost you try to get out of it the more hp it takes to spin. The turbo running of exhaust thats getting exited regaurdless.Quote:
Originally Posted by XKALIBER
Also another advantage to the rear mount set-up is that the length of the tubes cool the air charge before it enters the intake.
And yes 450 is a # reachable with your stock block without.....:bomb:
i have a procharger on my 99 ws6 and hauls ass but the sound is worth it alone.....
dont think you will ever be unhappy either way....if you keep the boost level sane!
I've heard many horror stories from some of my friends who run a shop down here. They get TA's and Camaro's in all the time that people have bottomed out the turbo and busted it. So I asked them what should I do then. They told me if I wanted it done right go ahead and fork out the extra cash and get a custom turbo setup that is under the hood. Then he showed me his Foxbody running 900+ HP with its turbo setup(much more work, just the turbo was insane)
I'd say turbo setup, but I'm kinda biased anyways. Don't worry about crimping an oil line. Your about as likely to do that as crimping a brake line or fuel line. Also, If the turbo is mounted the right way, there is no problem. I've seen guys mount it where it sags low and I can see that being a problem. I used to own an sts setup and I like the setup for the cost and for the ease of install. With that being said I sold my sts setup for my incon twin setup. I just didn't like how you can see the turbo under the back of the car. It sounds great though, but honestly, my twin setup is way louder than my sts setup ever was. Honestly, I'd just figure out how much money you want to spend, because forced induction will work your wallet like a summer job.
Well you can go either way, but 450 RWHP can be done on motor mods alone nowadays. Seven years ago when I had my first LS1 F-body people were clammoring to make 400 at the wheels. Now you can bolt up a heads, cam, and headers and 400+ is an easily attainable goal.
That being said, turbos are not free horsepower. They do restrict the exhaust from leaving the engine, but it can be less loss than a blower. Superchargers are nice, but you can have belt issues. Ask yourself a couple of things:
1. Are you driving the car daily?
2. Is this your only vehicle?
3. Can you deal with the fact that you will be breaking stuff even if you plan it out?
4. What is your budget?
5. Street or track driving? And be honest with yourself. If you have no intention of ever stepping foot on a quarter mile track, you'll want a different setup than someone who will be going to the track often.
6. What's your current modlist? You'll want to keep in mind what you have done. If you have a lower budget, you might want to consider what you already have and go in that direction.
The fact is you are going to spend a lot of cash on Forced Induction. It is not for the weak of wallet or heart. You are going to break things as you start to make power; it's inevitable. STS is not the only game in town, and although many people like them there are better setups that go under the hood of the car and don't suffer from clearance issues.
Vortech vs. Procharger? Non-intercooled vs. Intercooled. Both kits are really expensive in my opinion, and I'd tell you to get one used if possible. There is so much to consider when doing this sort of stuff that I will give you the BEST advice anyone will give you:
Don't rush and do your homework.
There's my nickleworth of words for you.
-George
Now thats good advice!!!
I brought my procharger second hand from a crashed car (i wonder how that happened)
Good points:hyper:
It was half price
My car (with other mods too) is awsome to drive (read fast as f*#k)
Its a real sleeper as no body knows what they are taking on at the lights
Bad points:rant:
It drinks gas like a Santa Fe train
ALWAYS in the back of my minds is "what will break today"??
If you like your driving licence place a brick under the gas pedal or your average speed every where will be about 110mph !!!
Oh if its a manual car watch for over revving when you miss 4th and slam it into 2nd . . . .that really will ruin your day . . . . forced air takes no prisoners . .
Its lovely and sunny here in England today!!! Tea anyone??
I'd kill to be at 3800FT. I'm at 5500, and routinely see 7200+ DA days at the track. I see 4-6PSI on my car and am putting on a smaller pulley to get more power. :yup:Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdWS6
Pushrods- any one have a choice as I am changing out the valve train anyways and the stock ones seem/ are well rather weak looking! I am looking at putting 500+ RWHP with a supercharger! Any website links to some good suppliers?
18 C here today and I took my car for a run and man I sure missed it! Could not resist a run before all of the surgery starts this week on it!
I just want to thank George and everyone else out there for there oppinions on the situation. I now have a much better idea of what i need to do before i even touch the forced induction system. Thanks again a big help as usual... thats why i love this site... :wave:
We run SmithBrothers in almost every forced induction or big bottle motors. If you talk to anyone that has been building race motors for years they will second my opion of there product. The turn around time is ALWAYS quick too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdWS6
I've NEVER bent or broke a single one of the .120 wall let alone the .156 rods from them
http://www.pushrods.net/index.htm
http://www.pushrods.net/performance.htm
Turbos are inherently more efficient by design. SC and blowers have MUCH quicker response by design. Not quite apples and oranges. More like apples and pears?
Turbo lets to drive around with a little lag(not sure how lag is on these cars as I still have a microscopic 2.0 :unhappy: ) but the mid-high end will shred pavement. SC and blower hold the boost advantage down low due to the way they boost.
So if you like to short-shift and want that healthy romp of power at the flick of you ankle, SC or blower. If you don't mind lag, if any, for the monstrous top-end go turbo. Thats my .02
:zoom:
Quote:
Vortech vs. Procharger? Non-intercooled vs. Intercooled. Both kits are really expensive in my opinion, and I'd tell you to get one used if possible. There is so much to consider when doing this sort of stuff that I will give you the BEST advice anyone will give you:
Don't rush and do your homework.
There's my nickleworth of words for you.
-George
Can we further this dialog as I have already purchased the Pro ATI D-1SC kit with all of the tuner package (pumps,injectors...blah..blah). I really liked the fact that the ProCharger was a stand alone unit (no plumbing of oil lines). I live at 3800 ft elevation and this unit will make 8lbs of boost so with my elevation correction it should be at 6.5lbs. Now it is not a daily driver as I only take it out for cruises with the family (ice cream/burger go getter- sometimes in that order) but I do like to go heavy at the 1/4 track on Friday nights (legal street drags). Brakes and suspension/torque arms/315/35/R17 on a Moser 12 bolt 3.73/4.10 (both sets in the garage) have been all done with some basic mods to the engine (160 thermo, 1.85 roller ratio, MAF and full SLP exhaust mods). I still want to hear the pro's/cons of each so that I can be aware of all the potential pitfalls of the systems themselves.
Your grateful Grasshopper!
:Popcorn: its all about how much trouble you want to get into!!!!! seriously though, you have to figure out what kind of power you want and what kind of rpms you want it in. prochargers are neat because as someone stated ealier, you get power instantly. they are typically easier to install and less expensive bc you dont have to modify anything to get them to fit. its a big bolt on bracket (centrifugal) and youre off (so to speak).
but heres the problem.
the right turbo with the right compression heads and a tune that puts the power and torque where YOU need it will SLAUGHTER anything...supercharged or otherwise. whoever said they would be worried about the rear mounted sts...i couldnt agree more bc ive blown 2 turbos and it is no fun. turbos also benefit extremely from an intercooler, and the shorter the ic piping the better. and unlike four cylinders you dont have to worry much about not having power before the boost comes on. you got plenty already!!!
im not claiming to be an expert but i like turbos assumin you can keep reasonably high compression heads so your not too underpowered before boost. and as everyone says, its all in the tune......
good luck